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May 23, 2019, 09:03:03 am
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Author Topic: Tulsa PAC Unveils New Long-Range Plan for Facility Improvements  (Read 871 times)
DTowner
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« Reply #15 on: April 02, 2019, 01:26:39 pm »

What’s not to love?  Nice big windows so you can look out at the surface parking lots that cover the 3 other corners of the intersection.

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« Reply #16 on: April 02, 2019, 04:44:40 pm »

Hopefully those get developed with a $320M investment across the street and being literally next door to one of the most active districts downtown.  Not to mention the significant investment the area is/will see at Santa Fe Square. 
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DTowner
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« Reply #17 on: April 03, 2019, 11:05:59 am »

Hopefully those get developed with a $320M investment across the street and being literally next door to one of the most active districts downtown.  Not to mention the significant investment the area is/will see at Santa Fe Square. 

Perhaps, but in 40+ years the existence of an active and busy PAC has not lead to any spin off development on any of those corners.  I know the times are a changing downtown, but it’s not a given that a much more expensive (and better looking) version of the PAC will do anything to push the needle on development in that area that wouldn’t otherwise happen.  Plus, I suspect more than a few suburban PAC patrons would be very unhappy to see their plentiful surface parking lots get redeveloped.
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TulsaGoldenHurriCAN
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« Reply #18 on: April 03, 2019, 01:55:19 pm »

Perhaps, but in 40+ years the existence of an active and busy PAC has not lead to any spin off development on any of those corners.  I know the times are a changing downtown, but it’s not a given that a much more expensive (and better looking) version of the PAC will do anything to push the needle on development in that area that wouldn’t otherwise happen.  Plus, I suspect more than a few suburban PAC patrons would be very unhappy to see their plentiful surface parking lots get redeveloped.

I agree. They will do an economic study and show that there's virtually no way even an extremely active new PAC schedule could justify $260 million, much less $320 million PAC. Not to mention all the overhead that currently exists.

That would require a monumental shift in activity for the PAC, multiplying the number of ticket sales and big events. It might not be impossible, but sounds unlikely to over be done. Maybe they're just dangling it out there hoping for some patron of the arts billionaire to sweep in. The list of other world-class opera houses and the cities and budgets shows how ridiculous the ask on this one is. Great to dream but you've got to be at least somewhat realistic too, especially considering the proposed building which is very nice, but not a world-class architectural ornament.

Either propose a world class architectural wonder that Tulsans can rally behind or ask for far less than what they did. The BOK Center didn't have to be an architectural wonder but it was still a big disappointment architectually; although it seems cheap now after seeing the price tag of this!
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ELG4America
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« Reply #19 on: April 03, 2019, 02:02:35 pm »

I really think we SHOULD have an architectural wonder and the proposal is not that.
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shavethewhales
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« Reply #20 on: April 03, 2019, 02:23:29 pm »

I'm also having trouble with the projected cost, especially because we all know that number will only go up if the project moves forward. Once a project goes over $300 million there always seems to be a snowball effect where everything magically gets more expensive just because it's part of this giant mega-project. I'm still trying to get my head around the Gathering Place's cost...

BUT, I do think a new/greatly expanded PAC is worth a massive investment. Maybe not 300 million, but 200 million wouldn't be out of the question - even if the supposed economic impact isn't quite that high. It's worth investing in things like this to emphasis the arts in our culture and put this city in the spotlight. It should indeed be a world class architectural marvel though, preferably with art deco features.

Those renderings look more plain every time I see them, and you have to consider what it would look like in reality. Definitely time to go back to the drawing board.
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« Reply #21 on: April 03, 2019, 03:14:12 pm »

I'm also having trouble with the projected cost, especially because we all know that number will only go up if the project moves forward. Once a project goes over $300 million there always seems to be a snowball effect where everything magically gets more expensive just because it's part of this giant mega-project. I'm still trying to get my head around the Gathering Place's cost...

BUT, I do think a new/greatly expanded PAC is worth a massive investment. Maybe not 300 million, but 200 million wouldn't be out of the question - even if the supposed economic impact isn't quite that high. It's worth investing in things like this to emphasis the arts in our culture and put this city in the spotlight. It should indeed be a world class architectural marvel though, preferably with art deco features.

Those renderings look more plain every time I see them, and you have to consider what it would look like in reality. Definitely time to go back to the drawing board.

I will say I think Beck Design does good work, and I like the facility they designed at OSU in Stillwater as well as the BA PAC. Both have these large glass lobbies that I think the PAC needs to become more transparent and engage the surrounding streets, unlike the concrete bunker we have now. 

The OSU PAC


And this cool Tulsa riverfront proposal they did but don't provide any other info..


https://beckdesign.com/work/okasa
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