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February 22, 2020, 02:56:15 am
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Author Topic: Simon Outlet Mall 61st & Hwy 75  (Read 221793 times)
Conan71
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« Reply #570 on: April 16, 2015, 12:43:55 pm »

The 85’ they are asking for is for a sign standard along highway 75.  The confusing part of their application, as previously submitted, had a provision for hotel/motel type space on the property, though their overlay does not show any such structure.

It’s entirely possible they could be re-tooling to take advantage of the existing zoning.  It’s also been rumored they are looking at a 75 acre site down near Jenks.
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PonderInc
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« Reply #571 on: April 16, 2015, 02:29:03 pm »

Really?  An 85' tall SIGN?  Do they really need a sign that's larger than the Golden Driller? That's just dumb... and obnoxious.
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cannon_fodder
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« Reply #572 on: April 16, 2015, 02:50:43 pm »

Not confusing at all, the reporter was fed some information and worked it into pre existing g storiess while ignoring a ton of other facts - like the fact that an outlet mall is not an approved use under current zoning or that they want public money for their project.

Lazy reporting probably fed to him by someone. Reporters have to pump out stories, some are bound to be fluff. In this instance, I'm not sure there was any news reported in the article.
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Conan71
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« Reply #573 on: April 16, 2015, 02:55:55 pm »

Not confusing at all, the reporter was fed some information and worked it into pre existing g storiess while ignoring a ton of other facts - like the fact that an outlet mall is not an approved use under current zoning or that they want public money for their project.

Lazy reporting probably fed to him by someone. Reporters have to pump out stories, some are bound to be fluff. In this instance, I'm not sure there was any news reported in the article.

One of two pieces handed to him by Clay Bird, JMO.  Canfield works the City Hall beat.

In all fairness, Kevin has given the anti mall movement a good deal more column inches than the pro side.  It’s always good to make sure you are covering all sides.

We spent 1 1/2 hours with James Gibbard from the TW rolling footage last Friday for their blog.  He covered a few new angles, I’ll be interested to see how it edits out.
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Conan71
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« Reply #574 on: April 16, 2015, 02:56:55 pm »

Really?  An 85' tall SIGN?  Do they really need a sign that's larger than the Golden Driller? That's just dumb... and obnoxious.

Gotta be able to see it from I-44 ya know.

If they were to build somewhere with more intuitive access, ahem, they wouldn’t need such a structure.
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« Reply #575 on: April 16, 2015, 03:32:22 pm »

Really?  An 85' tall SIGN?  Do they really need a sign that's larger than the Golden Driller? That's just dumb... and obnoxious.


Simon...Malls.



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« Reply #576 on: April 16, 2015, 06:14:57 pm »

The YMCA of Greater Tulsa board of directors, however, remains skeptical of the proposal and has said it would not support the project unless certain demands are met.

They include reducing the maximum allowed building height from 85 feet to 35 feet and eliminating all views of the mall from anywhere on the YMCA property.

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patric
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« Reply #577 on: April 16, 2015, 06:28:39 pm »

Gotta be able to see it from I-44 ya know.

If they were to build somewhere with more intuitive access, ahem, they wouldn’t need such a structure.

Maybe there will be a nice animated video of Turkey Mountain to make up for the blocked view of Turkey Mountain.

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Conan71
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« Reply #578 on: April 16, 2015, 09:11:43 pm »

Well played!



Maybe there will be a nice animated video of Turkey Mountain to make up for the blocked view of Turkey Mountain.



There is a lovely LED sign on the west side of 75 heading south.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2015, 09:13:45 pm by Conan71 » Logged

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« Reply #579 on: April 17, 2015, 11:37:44 am »

The poorly written TW article inspired me to do some research of my own.  So, sorry if this is redundant and has been covered previously.

Here's the current zoning:


It's a mixture of Corridor, Commercial Shopping, Office Light, and Agricultural.

Outlet malls / shopping centers (and hotels and a bunch of other stuff) are allowed as a "use by right" under CO and CS zoning.  The OL area is minuscule and the AG is just a sliver around the edges of the lot in question. (The picture shows a much bigger area.)

CS zoning does not have a maximum building height.  In CO districts, max building height depends on the criteria approved in the Corridor Development Plan established for that CO land. There's not a lot of specifics in the zoning code.  It's sort of like an enormous PUD--in that the developer basically proposes their own customized zoning for an area--except a Corridor Development Plan frees them from the pesky underlying zoning restrictions that remain with a PUD.

Corridor districts also require a Site Plan Review (prior to any building permits).  This ensures the development will be built in accordance with the provisions of the approved Development Plan.

I don't know if a Corridor Development Plan was ever approved for the existing CO zoned area.  However, Simon was requesting to rezone the CS and OL areas to CO and then get a Corridor Development Plan approved for the entire site.

The original application indicated a proposed maximum building height of 85' and a sign that was 90' tall.  It also specifically mentioned a 300,000 SF hotel not to exceed 10 acres of the site.  I would certainly assume that this is where the 85' proposed max building height comes into play.

Anyway, that's my English major analysis of the zoning and the application from February.  If anyone wants to correct anything I got wrong, go for it.

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Conan71
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« Reply #580 on: May 09, 2015, 05:22:55 pm »

And now there’s this development:  People putting their money where their mouth is.  Tulsa Urban Wilderness Coalition now has 501(c)(3) status and an account with the Tulsa Community Foundation.

There’s been multiple rumors swirling for the last few weeks that Simon may be looking elsewhere, but nothing has been confirmed and their zoning hearing is still on TMAPC’s calendar for June 17.

Quote
Organizers of an effort to keep commercial development off Turkey Mountain have taken steps to add legitimacy and financing to their mission.

The Tulsa Urban Wilderness Coalition has been awarded formal nonprofit status and is launching fundraising efforts to preserve land near the River Parks Turkey Mountain Urban Wilderness Area.

The group’s 501©(3) designation will allow donors to make tax-exempt contributions toward its efforts to acquire and preserve public green space.
A donation account at the Tulsa Community Foundation and an online Go Fund Me account have been created.

“The account with TCF gives our coalition financial credibility and donors confidence they are donating to a sound and reputable organization,” said Erin Schuster, a member of the coalition’s finance committee.

The organization plans to use the money raised to purchase land for long-term preservation. Its top priority is acquiring a privately owned, 60-acre tract along the western flank of the urban wilderness area.

The Turkey Mountain trails, which are used by runners, hikers, bicyclists and horseback riders, spill out of the River Parks property onto private land, including the property where developers plan to build an outlet mall.

“Our first priority from Day 1 was to try to stop the development on Turkey Mountain,” said Colin Tawdry(sic) Shocked, the coalition’s coordinator of government affairs. “Our second priority has been to purchase the land and finally end the threat of commercial development on Turkey Mountain for good.”

The coalition was formed in response to the proposed outlet mall.

Tulsa Premium Outlets would cover more than 48 acres at U.S. 75 and 61st Street and would include more than 350,000 square feet of leasable space.
Simon Property Group, owner of Woodland Hills Mall, announced plans to build the upscale outlet mall last year.

Critics of the proposal are concerned that the mall would encroach on the trails and spoil the wilderness setting of Turkey Mountain.

“We noted from the beginning this site had numerous challenges to the sort of development which was proposed, including issues of public interest and safety,” Tawney said. “The public made their voices heard and forced Simon Properties back to the drawing board.”

A hearing for Simon’s proposed zoning change application before the Planning Commission is set for June 17. The hearing originally was set for March 18; however, the developer asked that it be postponed first to April 15 and then until June.

“I believe Simon may be at the point of realizing the odds are stacked against them enough they won’t get the zoning changes they need to proceed,” Tawney said. “If they abandon their plans for this site, we have to be prepared to spring into action immediately.”

In a December press release announcing plans for the mall, Mark Silvestri, chief operating officer of Simon Premium Outlets, said the company had already received strong interest from retailers who have “enjoyed great success with us around the country and are very anxious to be with us in Tulsa.”

“We are optimistic our premium outlet will be equally supported by the market,” Silvestri said in the release.

The land targeted for the mall is already zoned for commercial use. For its current plans, however, Simon needs the Planning Commission to change the zoning.

“We don’t want someone else to slip in and try to develop it,” Tawney said.

The Tulsa Community Foundation is affiliated with the George Kaiser Family Foundation, which owns 139 acres on Turkey Mountain. The Kaiser property is not the acreage on which the mall is planned.

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/local/tulsa-urban-wilderness-coalition-gets-nonprofit-status-raising-funds-to/article_ccb0c66a-ab59-5ea7-bb15-f094d52a0236.html#user-comment-area
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« Reply #581 on: May 12, 2015, 08:39:28 am »

Land swap discussed with Simon taking Bales Park across the highway and the City taking the Turkey Mountain property.  http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/local/location-option-discussed-in-talks-about-proposed-outlet-mall-near/article_a131be24-0cf5-5e6e-a60d-75656c1295da.html
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« Reply #582 on: May 12, 2015, 10:21:02 am »

whoa...a compromise that might work out for all parties.

I won't stand for it!
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« Reply #583 on: May 12, 2015, 10:29:55 am »

Its an Inhofe sort of solution. The one clever thing he did his entire administration.
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« Reply #584 on: May 12, 2015, 10:38:34 am »

Bales Park is actually used by people in the local community, though I don't know how many. It will be interesting to see the reaction. I think the article was likely a trial balloon.

The trafffic issue with 61st and Hwy 75 won't be made easier. The 61st and Union intersection is ready - it is massively overbuilt for the current traffic load, but the highway interchange would work about as well as the interchange at 81st and Hwy 75, meaning not at all. At least the 81st Street interchange has lights. the 61st Street interchange only has stop signs. Traffic trying to exit 75 northbound onto 81st Street to go to Tulsa Hills or Gander Mountain is backing up onto the highway itself. 

Land swap discussed with Simon taking Bales Park across the highway and the City taking the Turkey Mountain property.  http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/local/location-option-discussed-in-talks-about-proposed-outlet-mall-near/article_a131be24-0cf5-5e6e-a60d-75656c1295da.html
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