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Author Topic: Simon Outlet Mall 61st & Hwy 75  (Read 221147 times)
TheArtist
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« Reply #195 on: December 08, 2014, 05:04:11 pm »

If you read through some industry trade papers, they would try to lead people to believe otherwise.  Certainly, open air shopping is supplanting the enclosed malls if you compare the two, it looks like great growth for outlets.  At the same time, many people find the convenience of online shopping pretty irresistible and that segment keeps growing.  I can see the need for terrestrial clothing and shoe stores so you get something which fits right the first time.  As far as the other craptastic stores in outlet malls, I really don’t see the point when you could get the same item for less online and have it within a day or three depending on where it ships from.

My thought, and I really don't know what they typically have at outlet malls, is that they might have "name brand" stores that have a wider range of their merchandise than you might find elsewhere.  I would hope for instance that any clothing brands they have might be more stylish and offer a broader variety, and by "upscale" they mean "thin".

One downside I have heard of in relation to these outlet malls is that sometimes even when it's a "higher end, brand name" the product can be of lesser quality.  Which I don't get for it would seem to degrade your own brand,,, but I guess if it works.  

But I am probably with some people on here who think that the days of the "outlet mall" are pretty much over.  They will likely get a rush at first then people will realize, hmmm no big deal.  My own view of outlet malls is that they seem to be kind of be in the same league as " US style casino's and flea markets"  no matter how good they are they always seem to have that palpable air of hope/expectation and inevitable let-down about them.      
« Last Edit: December 08, 2014, 05:10:14 pm by TheArtist » Logged

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« Reply #196 on: December 08, 2014, 06:29:00 pm »

They were talking about it being 800,000sqft in the beginning. Now theyre down to the same size as the East Tulsa proposed outlet mall. I'm hoping the East TuLsa one gets built over this. Win win for future East Tulsa development and growth and the Tulsa Hills trails/nature (not that it wont stop someone else for coming in).
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« Reply #197 on: December 08, 2014, 06:51:44 pm »

Outlet malls in 2014 are nothing like outlet malls of the 80's and 90's

Outlet malls today are basically a collection of brand stores (Michael Kors, Coach, Skechers, etc) who products are otherwise only available in limited quantities at (generally faltering) retailers like Macys and Penney's. Here they have more control over their merchandising like they would at an indoor mall or a place like utica square, but in a slightly lower overhead format. 75% or more of the store is full retail, with some prior-season merchandise on markdown in the back.
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LandArchPoke
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« Reply #198 on: December 08, 2014, 08:22:04 pm »





Something also to note about this site. There is only ONE entrance/exit. Can you imagine funneling the amount of visitors for 400,000 square feet of retail into only a single point? And that point being off 61st Street. Even if you extend Olympia from the Spine Hospital to this site, you're still funneling everyone through one single access point. Again, I can't believe Simon or any retail is looking at this and thinking this development will be successful. It's retail 101 that when you have any sort of mass of retail you need multiple access point to enter/exit. This is something the city really needs to press/question Simon on. I have never seen a successful retail development on this scale with this limitation.
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heironymouspasparagus
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« Reply #199 on: December 08, 2014, 10:09:28 pm »

Something also to note about this site. There is only ONE entrance/exit. Can you imagine funneling the amount of visitors for 400,000 square feet of retail into only a single point? And that point being off 61st Street. Even if you extend Olympia from the Spine Hospital to this site, you're still funneling everyone through one single access point. Again, I can't believe Simon or any retail is looking at this and thinking this development will be successful. It's retail 101 that when you have any sort of mass of retail you need multiple access point to enter/exit. This is something the city really needs to press/question Simon on. I have never seen a successful retail development on this scale with this limitation.


It's Simon....

Simon == Fail.
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« Reply #200 on: December 08, 2014, 10:43:20 pm »

Something also to note about this site. There is only ONE entrance/exit. Can you imagine funneling the amount of visitors for 400,000 square feet of retail into only a single point? And that point being off 61st Street. Even if you extend Olympia from the Spine Hospital to this site, you're still funneling everyone through one single access point. Again, I can't believe Simon or any retail is looking at this and thinking this development will be successful. It's retail 101 that when you have any sort of mass of retail you need multiple access point to enter/exit. This is something the city really needs to press/question Simon on. I have never seen a successful retail development on this scale with this limitation.

Speaking to that concern, there is a parcel available on the west side of 75 between 61st & 71st.  A developer friend of mine who originally looked at developing a light office/medical/retirement community on the site we are talking about pointed out it would be very simple to construct on/off ramps into the property west of 75, plus access from 61st, 71st, and as many entrances as needed off Union.

Not sure if this will post correct or not, but it’s the google map of the Shoppes at Oklahoma City at I-40 and Council Road.  There’s a loop road around the mall with two entrance/exits on Reno and one onto Council.

https://www.google.com/maps/@35.4622672,-97.6489237,17z

It also illustrates the huge gap left by Saks closing their store.  28,000 square feet and one of the “anchors” of this mall.  One reason stated for traditional enclosed malls failing is losing their anchors.  Many depended on Sears, JCP, Macy’s, etc.  So what happens when outlet malls lose their anchors?  Hmmmm?
« Last Edit: December 08, 2014, 10:45:09 pm by Conan71 » Logged

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« Reply #201 on: December 08, 2014, 10:48:56 pm »

My thought, and I really don't know what they typically have at outlet malls, is that they might have "name brand" stores that have a wider range of their merchandise than you might find elsewhere.  I would hope for instance that any clothing brands they have might be more stylish and offer a broader variety, and by "upscale" they mean "thin".

One downside I have heard of in relation to these outlet malls is that sometimes even when it's a "higher end, brand name" the product can be of lesser quality.  Which I don't get for it would seem to degrade your own brand,,, but I guess if it works.  

But I am probably with some people on here who think that the days of the "outlet mall" are pretty much over.  They will likely get a rush at first then people will realize, hmmm no big deal.  My own view of outlet malls is that they seem to be kind of be in the same league as " US style casino's and flea markets"  no matter how good they are they always seem to have that palpable air of hope/expectation and inevitable let-down about them.      

From what I can see it’s all Asian-made crap with a “name” label stuck on it.  I’m sure it’s highly profitable to the retailers, buy container loads of goods from China, Taiwan, India, and Thailand where labor is stupid cheap and pawn them off on hapless consumers as “premium” goods.

GHACK!

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« Reply #202 on: December 09, 2014, 01:42:09 pm »

I'm just hoping the other malls start first and this one fades away.  I'm pulling for the east Tulsa one because I actually think it could jump start more development in that neglected part of the city but would be okay with the Cherokee project too as long as this land isn't developed into this retail center .
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DTowner
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« Reply #203 on: December 09, 2014, 02:34:16 pm »

From what I can see it’s all Asian-made crap with a “name” label stuck on it.  I’m sure it’s highly profitable to the retailers, buy container loads of goods from China, Taiwan, India, and Thailand where labor is stupid cheap and pawn them off on hapless consumers as “premium” goods.

GHACK!

So, outlet malls sell cheaply made merchandise at fairly high markups and margins.  How is this really different than what Wal-Mart, Target, Kohl’s, TJ Max and a host of other large chain stores advertise that they do every day?

Sgrizzle is right, the modern outlet mall is a gathering of designer/brand names that usually appear as products in larger department stores of old.  The fact that the merchandise is of lesser quality and price than these designers’ top-shelf items is probably much less of a shock to most shoppers of these malls than given credit.  While “outlet” used to imply it was last year’s unsold items and slightly damaged/defective goods, it has been a long while since that was primarily the case and most outlet mall shoppers are savory enough to understand that fact.

No one is building in-door malls (some websites claim one has not been built in the US since 2006) and most with Sears and/or JC Penny's as anchors are dying along with those chains, but life-style centers and outlet malls are two current growth areas of brick and mortar retail development.

I see advantages and disadvantages to both the Simon and the east Tulsa sites.  On balance I prefer the east Tulsa site because the area more desperately needs development and it would help protect Tulsa’s sales tax base from encroachment from the east.  However, I think an east Tulsa location will be less popular among Tulsans than the Simon site due to perceptions of east Tulsa.  Nonetheless, the Simon site sits in the middle of a developing commercial corridor with high daily traffic counts and access to major highways.  It is going to get developed commercially now or in the very near future unless someone steps in and pays a lot of money to make it a preserved area.
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guido911
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« Reply #204 on: December 09, 2014, 07:29:54 pm »

I am in favor of whatever makes me happy. Outlet malls make me happy. Private property rights make me happy.  Grin

Now, rather than pulling a shroud over the potential 61st & Hwy 75 mall development before it is even open yet, or suggesting that it might sell crap, it is my understanding that this development is on private property. Am I right? If it succeeds or fails should not be any concern of those that do not own that property. 
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« Reply #205 on: December 09, 2014, 08:34:13 pm »

I am in favor of whatever makes me happy. Outlet malls make me happy. Private property rights make me happy.  Grin

Now, rather than pulling a shroud over the potential 61st & Hwy 75 mall development before it is even open yet, or suggesting that it might sell crap, it is my understanding that this development is on private property. Am I right? If it succeeds or fails should not be any concern of those that do not own that property. 

I am going to buy the lot next to yours.  I plan to tear down the house and use the place for POD storage to help clear out my garage.
 
 Grin
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sgrizzle
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« Reply #206 on: December 09, 2014, 08:46:25 pm »

I am in favor of whatever makes me happy. Outlet malls make me happy. Private property rights make me happy.  Grin

Now, rather than pulling a shroud over the potential 61st & Hwy 75 mall development before it is even open yet, or suggesting that it might sell crap, it is my understanding that this development is on private property. Am I right? If it succeeds or fails should not be any concern of those that do not own that property. 

Quit using words I agree (at least partially) with
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Conan71
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« Reply #207 on: December 10, 2014, 01:16:18 am »

I am in favor of whatever makes me happy. Outlet malls make me happy. Private property rights make me happy.  Grin

Now, rather than pulling a shroud over the potential 61st & Hwy 75 mall development before it is even open yet, or suggesting that it might sell crap, it is my understanding that this development is on private property. Am I right? If it succeeds or fails should not be any concern of those that do not own that property. 

I’m all for private property rights.  I’m against crappy development which isn’t consistent with its surroundings.  Someone show me how this development makes sense adjacent to an urban wilderness area other than: “It’s private property, so shut up!” 

It’s kind of like neighborhood covenants which keep someone from opening a salvage yard across the street from your home, Guido.  Hey, it’s their private property, right?

That’s what zoning codes are supposed to be for.  This was all zoned AG until 2008.  May I also mention the seller of this property has enjoyed paying the low agriculture tax rates (+/- $1000/yr) for the last six years even though he managed to get zoning changed to commercial?

The old axiom of "Just because you can doesn’t mean you should” keeps running in a loop in my mind when I think of this development. 

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« Reply #208 on: December 10, 2014, 11:53:36 am »

They were talking about it being 800,000sqft in the beginning. Now theyre down to the same size as the East Tulsa proposed outlet mall. I'm hoping the East TuLsa one gets built over this. Win win for future East Tulsa development and growth and the Tulsa Hills trails/nature (not that it wont stop someone else for coming in).

They never said 800,000 sq ft. That was the stated size of Allen Premium Outlets, and they said the Tulsa version would be "half the size". I do hope for the East Tulsa locations, as it would better serve pulling in visitors from NWA.


I am in favor of whatever makes me happy. Outlet malls make me happy. Private property rights make me happy.  Grin

Now, rather than pulling a shroud over the potential 61st & Hwy 75 mall development before it is even open yet, or suggesting that it might sell crap, it is my understanding that this development is on private property. Am I right? If it succeeds or fails should not be any concern of those that do not own that property. 

It becomes a concern of EVERYONE who lives in the City of Tulsa when they are requesting PUBLIC funds to make this project financially feasible. At that point, asking these questions is vitally important... or else in five years we will be stuck with bonds the city can't afford to pay off because half the outlet mall is vacant because a combination of issues already stated.
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« Reply #209 on: December 10, 2014, 03:24:33 pm »

This is what I was referring to..

They never said 800,000 sq ft. That was the stated size of Allen Premium Outlets, and they said the Tulsa version would be "half the size". I do hope for the East Tulsa locations, as it would better serve pulling in visitors from NWA.

City leaders flew out to the Simon outlet mall near San Diego and developers told them their premium Tulsa outlets would be similar, but much larger -- as big as 800,000 square feet.

That would dwarf the outlet mall currently in Oklahoma City which is only half that size.



http://www.newson6.com/story/26319071/developer-confirms-premium-outlet-mall-coming-to-tulsa
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