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December 14, 2018, 05:48:21 pm
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Author Topic: Is it Illegal to be in a bar and drinking with an expired Drivers License?  (Read 10593 times)
tulsacan
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« on: October 26, 2013, 11:35:27 pm »

I was recently turned away from a bar for having an expired ID..... Granted, I understand it can be up to the discretion of a business to do as it wishes, but is it actually against the law in  to allow someone to drink in a bar with an expired license?  I have found other states seem to be clearer on the subject, Texas for example doesn't even say you technically have to ID or have an ID to drink... but if you turn out to be a minor you can get in trouble.  I have tried to scour the ABLE website but it doesn't actually say.

The closest I can come to finding anything is the following  paragraphs pulled directly from the ABLE site...

604. Sale of alcoholic beverages or low-point beer—Notice to employees
 1. Prohibits the sale or distribution of alcoholic beverages and low-point beer to any
person under twenty-one (21) years of age and the purchase or receipt of alcoholic
beverages and low-point beer by any person under twenty-one (21) years of age; and
 2. Requires that proof of age be demanded from a prospective purchaser or recipient
if an ordinary person would conclude on the basis of appearance that the prospective
purchaser or recipient may be under twenty-one (21) years of age.

That says I only have to demand proof of age to someone that I "think" looks under 21.  So if that was the case then it seems that having an expired ID wouldn't have even been an issue, or wouldn't all a bartender have to say is "well I thought he looked over 21" ?

Again I'm only talking if the person ACTUALLY is over 21.

But I can not find anywhere that says a patron actually has to have a Valid ID on them to be in a bar... All I see is that you have to be 21 to drink or be served.

Can anyone give me any further insight or point me to more concrete code?  One thing I really hate about this city and state is that laws are so fricken vague, this isn't the only thing that I've had problem finding information on.
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Snowman
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« Reply #1 on: October 27, 2013, 02:18:33 am »

... But I can not find anywhere that says a patron actually has to have a Valid ID on them to be in a bar... All I see is that you have to be 21 to drink or be served. ...

Even if it is not a legal issue, it could also be an insurance issue.
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RecycleMichael
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« Reply #2 on: October 27, 2013, 08:02:38 am »

I can't imagine it is illegal to be in a bar without ID. We would have to arrest all the girls doing lap dances while sipping on the $70 drink I bought them.
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patric
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« Reply #3 on: October 27, 2013, 09:10:45 am »

I can't imagine it is illegal to be in a bar without ID. We would have to arrest all the girls doing lap dances while sipping on the $70 drink I bought them.

For $70 it better be large enough to go around a couple of times...   Grin

Showing your drivers license in a bar, even to police, is "voluntary" since there is no law specifically compelling it.
A bar can always exercise their discretion as to who to serve, but if they choose to serve someone with an expired license there are no criminal consequences if the license happens to be expired.

All a bartender is required to do is be reasonably certain you are over 21.  If a document shows you are over 21, that fact doesnt change just because the document is old, and they dont need to see it every time you walk in the door.
Im betting the management got some bad training from some roving state agency desperate to stay relevant (and funded).
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sgrizzle
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« Reply #4 on: October 27, 2013, 02:26:18 pm »

For $70 it better be large enough to go around a couple of times...   Grin

Showing your drivers license in a bar, even to police, is "voluntary" since there is no law specifically compelling it.
A bar can always exercise their discretion as to who to serve, but if they choose to serve someone with an expired license there are no criminal consequences if the license happens to be expired.

All a bartender is required to do is be reasonably certain you are over 21.  If a document shows you are over 21, that fact doesnt change just because the document is old, and they dont need to see it every time you walk in the door.
Im betting the management got some bad training from some roving state agency desperate to stay relevant (and funded).

If a driver's license is expired it is considered invalid, per ABLE. Bars and Liquor Stores both are instructed not to serve to expired licenses.

Feel free to post a picture of you-know-who here.
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Conan71
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« Reply #5 on: October 27, 2013, 05:22:45 pm »

When I was in college, the scam was to use an upperclassman's expired DL if you looked close enough like them.
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swake
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« Reply #6 on: October 27, 2013, 06:36:22 pm »

There's State Law. And then there's Smoot Law.
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Ibanez
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« Reply #7 on: October 27, 2013, 07:45:01 pm »

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rdj
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« Reply #8 on: October 28, 2013, 08:24:47 am »

I was turned away from a bar in OKC a few years back for having a license that expired the day before.  Apparently the thirty day grace period doesn't apply to the ABLE laws.

Even more ridiculous, after attending a celebration downtown at Dilly Deli this spring a group decided to grab a beer at Arnie's.  The patriarch of the group, at the tender age of 76, was turned away from the bar because his DL was expired.  He doesn't drive any longer so he decided not to renew his license.  Now, that's a load of smoot!
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dbacksfan 2.0
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« Reply #9 on: October 28, 2013, 10:37:24 am »

Haven't had this happen to me personally, but have noticed in AZ, NV, CO, CA, OR, and WA that if your ID is expired you can't purchase alcohol or cigarettes in any of those states. I think New Mexico is the same, but haven't been there in six years.
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Townsend
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« Reply #10 on: October 28, 2013, 10:42:35 am »

20 years ago I was told to never take an expired ID.

I'd imagine this is still the way it is.
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patric
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« Reply #11 on: October 28, 2013, 02:03:37 pm »

I was turned away from a bar in OKC a few years back for having a license that expired the day before.  Apparently the thirty day grace period doesn't apply to the ABLE made-up laws.

Fixed it for you.  The actual, real, written statutes require the bartender to verify age, but does not prescribe how.
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tulsacan
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« Reply #12 on: October 28, 2013, 03:19:41 pm »

I hate how vague the laws are in oklahoma on not just this but several things... It's pretty sad that I'll search for laws regarding different things for oklahoma, and in the search engines I find several other states pop up but NOT oklahoma because other states are much clearer on what I'll be looking for.

But I also can not find anywhere, in oklahoma, tulsa, or able laws that say you even technically have to have an ID on you to be in a bar drinking...  That one paragraph says to ask for proof if I think they appear under 21... but going by that if a 80 year old walked in to the bar and the bartender can reasonably assume he is 21 or older and serves him is he breaking the law?  Or same scenario, an officer comes in and asks him for an ID and he doesn't have it, can he get in trouble, can the bar get in trouble?... because based on what is written on the able PDF sheets you technically didn't have to even ID him based on his appearance.


And yeah patric, I'm trying to find those statutes, do you know where I can find them.  I personally love how clear texas is on the issue I found on the Texas TABC website that bascially you don't have to show an id, no one has to ask for one, and if a bar chooses to accept a signed letter from your grandma saying you are 21 that is fine.... AS LONG AS YOU REALLY ARE 21!  I love that, the law is you can't sell to someone under 21 and as long as you are sure that you are not serving to a minor that is fine by them.



« Last Edit: October 28, 2013, 03:23:48 pm by tulsacan » Logged
Conan71
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« Reply #13 on: October 28, 2013, 03:23:34 pm »

Simple guide to laws in Oklahoma:

-If it seems like something that would make great sense and benefit many people, it's probably illegal.
-If it seems like something so out-of-step with the rest of the country, it's probably the law in Oklahoma.
-When in doubt about a law in Oklahoma, don't expect to be able to find a clear citation of it nor anyone in law enforcement who can agree what it means.

Finally, when you are tired of Oklahoma laws, reserve a U-Haul or call Bekins.  Grin
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tulsacan
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« Reply #14 on: October 28, 2013, 03:26:12 pm »

Simple guide to laws in Oklahoma:

-If it seems like something that would make great sense and benefit many people, it's probably illegal.
-If it seems like something so out-of-step with the rest of the country, it's probably the law in Oklahoma.
-When in doubt about a law in Oklahoma, don't expect to be able to find a clear citation of it nor anyone in law enforcement who can agree what it means.

Finally, when you are tired of Oklahoma laws, reserve a U-Haul or call Bekins.  Grin

So damn true, not just on this issue I have the hardest time finding clear laws, when I ask "officials" I usually get parroted answers, if I ask where I can find things in writing I am usually told to call another department or office....
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