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November 21, 2017, 04:02:23 am
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Author Topic: $60M in V2025 Surplus?  (Read 2253 times)
Weatherdemon
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« on: August 27, 2013, 12:31:57 pm »


Why are they not obligated to refund that to the taxpayers?




Tulsa County Commissioner Ron Peters said Monday he would consider using surplus Vision 2025 funds to help pay for a new juvenile justice center and four new pods at the Tulsa Jail.
“I am going to meet with (county officials) and sit down and look at any surplus 2025 funds that might be available for that purpose,” Peters said....

....“If we could somehow, say, get $15 million-$20 million, that would put us up to $45 million. And Commissioner (Karen) Keith has indicated that she could raise some private money to help finish it off. That would get us close to getting the two projects done.”...



 .... Kirby Crowe with Program Management Group, which manages the Vision 2025 program for the county, estimated it could have a surplus of about $60 million. The figure includes the program’s $40 million reserve.

 However, $45.5 million of that has been promised to the suburban communities as part of the Tulsa County Vision Authority’s 2006 decision to approve an additional $45.5 million for the BOK Center and Convention Center renovations.

 Complicating the issue, Crowe said, is that any surplus funds must be allocated proportionally among the three active ballot propositions — Economic Development; Health Care, Education and Entertainment; and Community Enrichment — originally approved by voters, meaning all of the money might not be available for criminal justice projects.


http://www.tulsaworld.com/article.aspx/Vision_funds_eyed_for_county/20130827_11_A1_TulsaC297525   
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Townsend
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« Reply #1 on: August 27, 2013, 12:39:00 pm »

Why are they not obligated to refund that to the taxpayers?



We didn't make them put that in writing before we voted on it.
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TheArtist
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« Reply #2 on: August 27, 2013, 12:55:21 pm »

  And because it was in writing that any surplus would be spent in other ways.
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Weatherdemon
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« Reply #3 on: August 27, 2013, 01:18:24 pm »

  And because it was in writing that any surplus would be spent in other ways.

Yea, that's right...
Still irritating.
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Vision 2025
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« Reply #4 on: August 27, 2013, 05:32:50 pm »

Yea, that's right...
Still irritating.
There was a very specific methodology identified in the resolutions which called for the vote that identified utilizing the Vision Authority which is made up of all elected officials to dtermine how such funds (if any) will be utilized, to do otherwise would be a breech of what the voters approved.
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Vision 2025 Program Director - know the facts, www.Vision2025.info
davideinstein
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« Reply #5 on: August 27, 2013, 06:30:18 pm »

Why spend it on a jail? Spend it on something more productive.
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heironymouspasparagus
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« Reply #6 on: August 27, 2013, 06:41:17 pm »

Why spend it on a jail? Spend it on something more productive.


What could possibly be more productive than another jail facility...this is Oklahoma, remember?

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BKDotCom
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« Reply #7 on: August 27, 2013, 08:25:42 pm »


What could possibly be more productive than another jail facility...this is Oklahoma, remember?


$60M is 6% of $1 billion  (See the thread about high-speed rail and futurama tubes)
Everyone thinks $1 billion is an astronomical.   But we already have 6% of that just lying around.
We can think big, and budget, or we can spend the money on iphones, fast-food, & 200 channels of reality TV.
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tulsascoot
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« Reply #8 on: August 27, 2013, 08:36:50 pm »

If I'm not mistaken, this was collected from sales tax. While I understand the desire to have that given back, just how would that be done? How do you give back a sales tax collection fairly?

Perhaps taking the money and spending it on city services is the only way that is possible. Then it is given back to the people who paid it. (Except travelers and those who have moved away)
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ZYX
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« Reply #9 on: August 27, 2013, 10:11:56 pm »

What about the OKPOP museum? IIRC that was estimated at $40 million.
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Vision 2025
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« Reply #10 on: August 28, 2013, 08:01:56 am »

$60M is 6% of $1 billion  (See the thread about high-speed rail and futurama tubes)
Everyone thinks $1 billion is an astronomical.   But we already have 6% of that just lying around.
We can think big, and budget, or we can spend the money on iphones, fast-food, & 200 channels of reality TV.
The funds are not "laying around" and in fact a good portion have yet to be collected"
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heironymouspasparagus
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« Reply #11 on: August 28, 2013, 08:28:11 am »

$60M is 6% of $1 billion  (See the thread about high-speed rail and futurama tubes)
Everyone thinks $1 billion is an astronomical.   But we already have 6% of that just lying around.
We can think big, and budget, or we can spend the money on iphones, fast-food, & 200 channels of reality TV.


Not to mention the $900 million or so the city is talking about for the next election....that is a billion, once the fees, expenses, etc are factored in.


And no, I really don't think we need another prison...any of those other uses are much better.  Even the fast food....
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« Reply #12 on: August 28, 2013, 09:20:57 am »

Why spend it on a jail? Spend it on something more productive.

Exactly.
Diverting money the people intended for roads and parks to jails and prisons, is the sort of bait-and-switch that people will be reminded of the next trip to the polls.
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rdj
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« Reply #13 on: August 28, 2013, 09:32:12 am »

I don't believe V2025 was about roads.  It was about parks and quality of life, i.e. BOK Center, Convention Center, downtown housing, suburban community centers.  It could be argued that a juvenile center, that will hopefully rehabilitate children and teens into better citizens, is a quality of life issue.  While a weak argument it can be made.

As was quoted below the suburban reps on the V2025 committee will decide how the first $45MM of this money is spent.  That is the amount they gave "Tulsa" for the upgrades/cost overruns at the BOK Center.  They were promised by then Mayor Taylor they would get first crack at deciding where an equal amount of overage went.  I can't speak for all the city managers/mayors of the suburbs but the ones I have a relationship with already have a list of what they'd like out of that money.

In short, unless the county is able to convince the suburban mayors to give them more the max the juvenile center will get is $15MM and that is assuming the overage projection is correct.
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DTowner
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« Reply #14 on: August 28, 2013, 10:37:47 am »

I don't believe V2025 was about roads.  It was about parks and quality of life, i.e. BOK Center, Convention Center, downtown housing, suburban community centers.  It could be argued that a juvenile center, that will hopefully rehabilitate children and teens into better citizens, is a quality of life issue.  While a weak argument it can be made.

As was quoted below the suburban reps on the V2025 committee will decide how the first $45MM of this money is spent.  That is the amount they gave "Tulsa" for the upgrades/cost overruns at the BOK Center.  They were promised by then Mayor Taylor they would get first crack at deciding where an equal amount of overage went.  I can't speak for all the city managers/mayors of the suburbs but the ones I have a relationship with already have a list of what they'd like out of that money.

In short, unless the county is able to convince the suburban mayors to give them more the max the juvenile center will get is $15MM and that is assuming the overage projection is correct.

Since the juvenile center will also benefit all the suburbs in Tulsa County, there should be a good incentive for them to support it.  However, I susupect many of the suburbs' mayors like to falsely paint juvenille justice problems as one primarily occuring within the city of Tulsa.  And a new park or community center with their name on it is much better for re-election prospects.
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