A grassroots organization focused on the intelligent and sustainable development, preservation and revitalization of Tulsa.
 
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
November 17, 2017, 01:35:59 pm
Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 6   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Oklahoma City FC will be playing the New York Cosmos, not Tulsa.  (Read 18061 times)
Laramie
Civic Leader
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 274



« Reply #45 on: December 07, 2013, 12:39:20 pm »

?

Wrong.  TULSA'S SOCCER DADS would beg to differ.

The Roughnecks generation of soccer kids are now in our 30's, 40's, and many of us are now in our 50's.

We had a crowd of nearly 5,800 for a Tuesday night game last summer.

We had a crowd of 3,761 to watch our first year hometown amateur team play the Liverpool Warriors of Dallas (Plano) on the same Saturday night in June when both the Drillers and Shock were simultaneously playing home games at their superior facilities at OneOk Park and the BOk Center.

THE TIME IS NOW.  The only question beyond that is whether we'll be a USL Pro affiliate of Sporting KC or take the field as an independent NASL club.
This could happen as soon as 2015, but definitely within the next 2-4 years.



http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2013/08/18/nbc-telecast-of-swansea-city-manchester-united-posts-highest-overnight-rating-in-u-s-history-for-premier-league-opener/198140/

    NBC Sports Group’s three live opening-day Premier League telecasts averaged a .5 overnight rating – up 67% from last season’s opening Saturday three-game average (.3 average for one match on ESPN and two on Fox Soccer)
Washington, D.C. topped all U.S. markets for local ratings of NBC’s Swansea City-Manchester United telecast.
Following is the top ten:

Washington, D.C. (2.2)
Tulsa (1.9)
Austin (1.8 )
Seattle (1.4)
Buffalo (1.4)
Los Angeles (1.2)
Philadelphia (1.0)
Cincinnati (1.0)
Orlando (1.0)
Hartford/New Haven (0.9)

Hopefully, the NASL has learned from its previous flash; there seems to be a more direct and selective approach to build the league with a foundation of cities capable of sustaining the league. 

Based on Tulsa's affiliation with the league, you would have thought that the NASL would have first offered an expansion franchise to Tulsa rather than Jacksonville and Oklahoma City.

Tulsa will eventually become a member of the NASL again.

These media numbers  (1.9 second to D.C.) suggest that the market is there and probably stronger now than ever before.  Tulsa is truly as diverse as any city in North America.  The Athletics are a good early indicator that if the support is there for an NPSL level franchise that a return to the NASL should generate even more excitement and rekindle the old guard support who were avid Roughneck followers.
Logged

“Think for yourself and let others enjoy the privilege of doing so too.” ― Voltaire
Rookie Okie
Civic Leader
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 162


« Reply #46 on: December 08, 2013, 08:02:26 pm »

I agree, MLS (as well as the more recent NASL) for some time has too heavily focused its efforts trying to tap markets based on size rather than looking more closely inside markets.  This has left me to wonder whether pro soccer after 45 years in the U.S. could be further along than where it is now.
Logged
Laramie
Civic Leader
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 274



« Reply #47 on: December 28, 2013, 02:30:38 am »

I agree, MLS (as well as the more recent NASL) for some time has too heavily focused its efforts trying to tap markets based on size rather than looking more closely inside markets.  This has left me to wonder whether pro soccer after 45 years in the U.S. could be further along than where it is now.

Good observation Rookie Okie:

Could the NASL be next step for Tulsa?

"A lot of smart people think there’s a Major League Soccer team in Tulsa’s future..."--http://www.okmag.com/September-2013/The-Roughneck-Effect/

The MLS could have gone into markets like Rochester & Tulsa where there are well established soccer fan bases with very little competition among the Fab Four Sports (MLB, NFL, NBA, NHL) and capitalized on those markets.  The MLS appears to be cherry-picking among the largest metropolitan areas.

Tulsa would be a great location for an MLS franchise because there is a high interest in soccer on the international level as well as little competition among major professional sports.  The current closes MLS franchise to Tulsa is located in Kansas City.  The closes Fab Four franchise is 100 miles southwest on the Turner Turnpike.  The travel areas of most MLS cities encompasses less than a 50-mile radius.

MLS is currently considering markets like Atlanta (09), Austin (35), Miami (08), Minneapolis-St. Paul (16), Orlando (26), San Antonio (27), and St. Louis (19) which are among the top 35 metropolitan areas in the country.  These cities would make for some interesting rivals and well as key TV Markets in the United States.

Tulsa ranks (59 TV households and 55 MSA) among the top 60:  television markets and metropolitan areas in the country.

Here is a link to Nielsen's local television market estimates as of January 1, 2013 and used throughout the 2012-2013 television season.

http://www.tvb.org/media/file/TVB_Market_Profiles_Nielsen_Household_DMA_Ranks2.pdf

Top 381 Metropolitan Areas (MSA's) in the United States:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Metropolitan_Statistical_Areas 

 
Logged

“Think for yourself and let others enjoy the privilege of doing so too.” ― Voltaire
Rookie Okie
Civic Leader
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 162


« Reply #48 on: December 29, 2013, 10:43:06 pm »

If I'm not mistaken, MLS has already failed in Miami and Tampa.  Yet Miami is at or near the top of the current list expansion cities.  Guess the league would like to take another shot at attracting what should be a large soccer enthused Latino/ Hispanic fan base in South Fla.

The Florida metros and Atlanta do not support professional sports teams well unless those teams are super successful.  Typically, expansion teams out of the gate are not usually among the most competitive in any sport.  So it will be interesting to see how these markets support the MLS as it is inevitable that they will soon have teams.

The soccer split in Tulsa could be fatal to whatever slim chances it has to land an MLS team.  It will require a major undertaking (with every ounce of state, regional, and local support available and then some) to make a serious play for a franchise.  One would be hard pressed to envision pulling this together with the two opposing local factions, along with any OKC attempts to move up beyond the NASL.  Just thinking of how powerful a coalition they'd form if the local groups could join forces.
Logged
Laramie
Civic Leader
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 274



« Reply #49 on: December 31, 2013, 05:53:45 pm »

MSL  added its first two expansion teams in 1998—the Miami Fusion and the Chicago Fire, with the Chicago Fire winning its first title in 1998 to interrupt D.C. United's dominance of the championship.   Seems as though the two Florida franchises (Miami Fusion & Tampa Bay Mutiny) folded after 2000-01.  The Fusion played in Fort Lauderdale, FL where the old NASL Strikers use to play in Lockhart Stadium

Yes, Rookie Okie, you are correct; there was an expansion team added to Miami (Fusion) in 1998.  Why the MLS wants to return to a previously failed market is unbeknown to me?   Surprisingly, the Chicago Fire, an expansion team won the league championship during its expansion year.  Lockhart Stadium was expanded to 20,000 while the Fusion played there.

I believe that a soccer specific stadium would increase Tulsa's potential for gaining entry into the MLS;  U.S. Rufnex would be a good source  who might have insight about any behind the scenes efforts to attract an MLS expansion or relocation franchise to Tulsa.  If my research is correct, Tulsa Vision2025 penny sales tax should expire around 2016 (Started in 2003; 13-year collection); that would be the time to extend the tax and fund more projects, such as a soccer specific stadium. Looks as tough Tulsa will have an opportunity to get on the MLS radar if a stadium could be financed through existing means (2016 extension of Vision 2025).   Proponents here in OKC will probably put some type of stadium on a MAPS IV initiative when the MAPS III sales taxes are collected and set to expire in 2017.  OKC has continued to invest in itself since the original MAPS tax was passed in 1993. 

Miami is probably reaching the point of being oversaturated with major professional sports franchises. There is a huge potential in Miami for MLS if the right ownership is in place--especially a one with deep pockets. 

I believe that Salt Lake City is the smallest market in the MLS with an estimated 1.2 million; SLC currently has a well established NBA franchise within its marketing area.  Tulsa is right at 1 million without an NBA.  Salt Lake City's MLS team is averaging around 19,200 in a  20,213-seat Rio Tinto Stadium in suburban Sandy, Utah.  The NBA Jazz currently averages 17,800 in a 19,911-seat facility.

MLS Attendance:  http://www.sbnation.com/soccer/2013/10/31/5047982/mls-attendance-2013-report
NBA Attendance:  http://espn.go.com/nba/attendance 


Tulsa would be a great addition to the MLS geography because of its equal distance between current MLS franchises in Frisco, Texas  and Kansas City, Kansas.

Oklahoma is not currently on the MLS' radar; if Oklahoma is selected as a part of MLS expansion going into 2020 it will have to have a soccer specific stadium with a minimum of 18,000-seats. 

Tulsa definitely has the history of a proven soccer base that exceeds MLS minimum stadium seating requirements.  "The Roughnecks' home games consistently drew better-than-league-average attendance, with the annual record occurring during the 1980 season when the team averaged 19,787."--Wikipedia.   Without major professional sports within a 50-mile radius.  MLS would have a market all to itself.


How Far Is It? Distance calculator link: http://www.indo.com/cgi-bin/dist
Logged

“Think for yourself and let others enjoy the privilege of doing so too.” ― Voltaire
DowntownDan
Philanthropist
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 782


« Reply #50 on: January 07, 2014, 03:52:16 pm »

MSL  added its first two expansion teams in 1998—the Miami Fusion and the Chicago Fire, with the Chicago Fire winning its first title in 1998 to interrupt D.C. United's dominance of the championship.   Seems as though the two Florida franchises (Miami Fusion & Tampa Bay Mutiny) folded after 2000-01.  The Fusion played in Fort Lauderdale, FL where the old NASL Strikers use to play in Lockhart Stadium

Yes, Rookie Okie, you are correct; there was an expansion team added to Miami (Fusion) in 1998.  Why the MLS wants to return to a previously failed market is unbeknown to me?   Surprisingly, the Chicago Fire, an expansion team won the league championship during its expansion year.  Lockhart Stadium was expanded to 20,000 while the Fusion played there.

I believe that a soccer specific stadium would increase Tulsa's potential for gaining entry into the MLS;  U.S. Rufnex would be a good source  who might have insight about any behind the scenes efforts to attract an MLS expansion or relocation franchise to Tulsa.  If my research is correct, Tulsa Vision2025 penny sales tax should expire around 2016 (Started in 2003; 13-year collection); that would be the time to extend the tax and fund more projects, such as a soccer specific stadium. Looks as tough Tulsa will have an opportunity to get on the MLS radar if a stadium could be financed through existing means (2016 extension of Vision 2025).   Proponents here in OKC will probably put some type of stadium on a MAPS IV initiative when the MAPS III sales taxes are collected and set to expire in 2017.  OKC has continued to invest in itself since the original MAPS tax was passed in 1993. 

Miami is probably reaching the point of being oversaturated with major professional sports franchises. There is a huge potential in Miami for MLS if the right ownership is in place--especially a one with deep pockets. 

I believe that Salt Lake City is the smallest market in the MLS with an estimated 1.2 million; SLC currently has a well established NBA franchise within its marketing area.  Tulsa is right at 1 million without an NBA.  Salt Lake City's MLS team is averaging around 19,200 in a  20,213-seat Rio Tinto Stadium in suburban Sandy, Utah.  The NBA Jazz currently averages 17,800 in a 19,911-seat facility.

MLS Attendance:  http://www.sbnation.com/soccer/2013/10/31/5047982/mls-attendance-2013-report
NBA Attendance:  http://espn.go.com/nba/attendance 


Tulsa would be a great addition to the MLS geography because of its equal distance between current MLS franchises in Frisco, Texas  and Kansas City, Kansas.

Oklahoma is not currently on the MLS' radar; if Oklahoma is selected as a part of MLS expansion going into 2020 it will have to have a soccer specific stadium with a minimum of 18,000-seats. 

Tulsa definitely has the history of a proven soccer base that exceeds MLS minimum stadium seating requirements.  "The Roughnecks' home games consistently drew better-than-league-average attendance, with the annual record occurring during the 1980 season when the team averaged 19,787."--Wikipedia.   Without major professional sports within a 50-mile radius.  MLS would have a market all to itself.


How Far Is It? Distance calculator link: http://www.indo.com/cgi-bin/dist

According to the releases I read, Oklahoma City is building a soccer specific stadium that will be expandable to MLS requirements.  Once that happens, they will be on the MLS radar instead of us.  They will surely jump ahead of us...again...if we don't commit to a soccer specific stadium also.  Lots or room downtown.  I don't care who it is.  Just make it happen.
Logged
Laramie
Civic Leader
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 274



« Reply #51 on: January 08, 2014, 02:40:05 pm »

According to the releases I read, Oklahoma City is building a soccer specific stadium that will be expandable to MLS requirements.  Once that happens, they will be on the MLS radar instead of us.  They will surely jump ahead of us...again...if we don't commit to a soccer specific stadium also.  Lots or room downtown.  I don't care who it is.  Just make it happen.

As much as I would love to see an MLS franchise in Oklahoma (OKC or Tulsa); Tulsa would be better suited for long-term success and viability. 

1.  In Tulsa an MLS franchise wouldn't be competing for available major professional sports' dollars.
2.  Good marketing could draw some soccer fanatics from Wichita & Oklahoma City.
3.  Tulsa has in its history a solid soccer fan base in the area.
4.  There are deep pockets in Tulsa (ownership) which could be sold on an MLS franchise in Tulsa.

I predict that an MLS franchise will be in Oklahoma by 2020.


There are some ownership groups in OKC both the NASL & USL-Pro who have stated interests in building a soccer specific stadium with initial plans from 7,000-14,000 seats.  I have a friend who works on the collection data planning for future project with the City of OKC and there is talk of some kind of stadium being built for the city's future (nothing concrete).

USL-Pro Prodigal LLC soccer specific stadium:  http://newsok.com/prodigal-adg-to-build-soccer-stadium-in-oklahoma-city/article/3862781

NASL McLaughlin & SOS soccer specific stadium:  ]http://eastwordnews.com/main.asp?SectionID=4&SubSectionID=178&ArticleID=4071]

Not only is there a battle in OKC over soccer market; (USL-Pro begin 2014; NASL 2015) there is now a stadium race.

Who knows?  The way the Funks (Prodigal LLC) have been courting Tulsa lately; they could very well be looking at a back up plan and eventually build a stadium in Tulsa instead of OKC.

Both groups in OKC have stated that the stadiums they are planning to build will be expandable to 18,000-seats which is the minimum requirements for MLS.
Logged

“Think for yourself and let others enjoy the privilege of doing so too.” ― Voltaire
dbacksfan 2.0
City Father
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1321


« Reply #52 on: January 08, 2014, 02:57:40 pm »

Quote
1.  In Tulsa an MLS franchise wouldn't be competing for available major professional sports' dollars.

I have to call BS on this. 14 of the 19 MLS teams are in cities where they compete with at least one other stick and ball sport.

Chicago, DC United, Houston, Portland, Dallas, Los Angeles, Seattle, Philadelphia, San Jose, Kansas City, Toronto, New England, Colorado, and Vancouver.

And the all seem to be doing well.

Typical OKC backhanded compliment.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2014, 03:10:15 pm by dbacksfan 2.0 » Logged
Rookie Okie
Civic Leader
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 162


« Reply #53 on: January 08, 2014, 04:06:04 pm »

I have to call BS on this. 14 of the 19 MLS teams are in cities where they compete with at least one other stick and ball sport.

Chicago, DC United, Houston, Portland, Dallas, Los Angeles, Seattle, Philadelphia, San Jose, Kansas City, Toronto, New England, Colorado, and Vancouver.

And the all seem to be doing well.

Typical OKC backhanded compliment.
Dback, given the smaller size of metro Tulsa compared to the cities cited above, the point is that it would be more difficult to support an MLS team if there was any other pro sport here competing for the sports dollar.  Although those cities have at least one or more other pro sport, they are all at least 2X (and some many times over) the size of the metro pop. of Tulsa.  Perhpas a better example of the point I believe that you were trying to make is to look at smaller market Salt Lake City (between OKC and Tulsa metros in size) with successful MLS and NBA teams (at least in terms of fan base and support).
Logged
DowntownDan
Philanthropist
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 782


« Reply #54 on: January 08, 2014, 04:38:55 pm »




There are some ownership groups in OKC both the NASL & USL-Pro who have stated interests in building a soccer specific stadium with initial plans from 7,000-14,000 seats.  I have a friend who works on the collection data planning for future project with the City of OKC and there is talk of some kind of stadium being built for the city's future (nothing concrete).

USL-Pro Prodigal LLC soccer specific stadium:  http://newsok.com/prodigal-adg-to-build-soccer-stadium-in-oklahoma-city/article/3862781

NASL McLaughlin & SOS soccer specific stadium:  ]http://eastwordnews.com/main.asp?SectionID=4&SubSectionID=178&ArticleID=4071]

Not only is there a battle in OKC over soccer market; (USL-Pro begin 2014; NASL 2015) there is now a stadium race.

Who knows?  The way the Funks (Prodigal LLC) have been courting Tulsa lately; they could very well be looking at a back up plan and eventually build a stadium in Tulsa instead of OKC.

Both groups in OKC have stated that the stadiums they are planning to build will be expandable to 18,000-seats which is the minimum requirements for MLS.


Point being that wheels are already in motion there for a soccer specific stadium.  Not a peep here.  Once ground starts moving in OKC, the MLS is pretty much a lock to be in OKC if this state is in their purview.  As usual, Tulsa is behind the ball and I'm more and more convinced that we will be losing out to OKC once again in the sports department.  
Logged
dbacksfan 2.0
City Father
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1321


« Reply #55 on: January 08, 2014, 10:55:15 pm »

Rookie Okie, there are several people that post here that use several of those cities to draw comparisons to Tulsa for population, COL, earnings, transportation, pay scales, and what those cities have that Tulsa should have. My main point was the line of crap that MLS would succeed in Tulsa because there is no competition from other pro teams, where as, in Laramie's eyes, "they would have a tough time competing against the Thunder" insinuation.
Logged
Laramie
Civic Leader
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 274



« Reply #56 on: January 09, 2014, 12:02:14 am »

Rookie Okie, there are several people that post here that use several of those cities to draw comparisons to Tulsa for population, COL, earnings, transportation, pay scales, and what those cities have that Tulsa should have. My main point was the line of crap that MLS would succeed in Tulsa because there is no competition from other pro teams, where as, in Laramie's eyes, "they would have a tough time competing against the Thunder" insinuation.

As far as the Thunder's insinuation; sports dollars available in OKC are already committed with a well established NBA team.  

Salt Lake City which is more aligned with Tulsa & OKC demographic wise has taken to soccer in suburban Sandy, Utah.  It may or may not have a direct result on the NBA Jazz's drop in attendance; however, there are just so many dollars available in selected communities.

We have no idea as to how the new USL-Pro soccer and NASL teams scheduled to come to OKC in 2014 and 2015 respectively will perform.  OKC has limited soccer history; their efforts will be strictly from a marketing blitz.

My post was to look at this from a practical and financial standpoint.  This link which U.S. Rufnex cited in an earlier post does have merit:

http://wagesofwins.com/2011/10/31/could-your-city-give-a-sports-team-a-good-home/

« Last Edit: January 09, 2014, 12:07:32 am by Laramie » Logged

“Think for yourself and let others enjoy the privilege of doing so too.” ― Voltaire
Snowman
Citizen
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 20


« Reply #57 on: January 09, 2014, 01:03:26 am »

While it is useful to estimate how much a money the market has and not something you want to get too far ahead of, discretionary income of Tulsa and OKC are both good nationally. It also can be misleading as no one in Tulsa is moping about not being able to spend the money they set aside for pro sports this month and had to put it in savings for when a major league team is acquired, people generally spend the money they have either way, in fact until the recent economic downturn a decent percentage of people were spending money they didn't have freely. It now would just be going to other forms like live concerts, retail purchases, dining, travel, etc; these may be things people would not want to give up either. Plus only a small percentage of people in a city are buying the tickets, so it is possible that the ticket bases would not have a lot of overlap.

PS: The Jazz are not a great example, since as is common, attendance dropped as on court performance dropped.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2014, 01:12:10 am by Snowman » Logged
Rookie Okie
Civic Leader
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 162


« Reply #58 on: January 09, 2014, 01:57:09 pm »

While it is useful to estimate how much a money the market has and not something you want to get too far ahead of, discretionary income of Tulsa and OKC are both good nationally. It also can be misleading as no one in Tulsa is moping about not being able to spend the money they set aside for pro sports this month and had to put it in savings for when a major league team is acquired, people generally spend the money they have either way, in fact until the recent economic downturn a decent percentage of people were spending money they didn't have freely. It now would just be going to other forms like live concerts, retail purchases, dining, travel, etc; these may be things people would not want to give up either. Plus only a small percentage of people in a city are buying the tickets, so it is possible that the ticket bases would not have a lot of overlap.

PS: The Jazz are not a great example, since as is common, attendance dropped as on court performance dropped.
Good point Snowman, Jazz attendance is slightly down this season due to court performance.  They still are in the top half of the league in attendance, and are typically well up in the top 10.  As I thought further after using them as a 2 sport small market success, it really occurred to me that there isn't much overlap between the MLS and NBA seasons.  Thus, the competition for pro sports dollar in SLC isn't as direct in this case as say baseball vs. soccer or hockey vs. basketball would generate.
Logged
dbacksfan 2.0
City Father
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1321


« Reply #59 on: January 10, 2014, 02:54:27 am »

Having lived in Phoenix for 13 years, yes there are people that are fans of, use discretionary funds for, MLB, NHL, NBA and NFL. There are the core fans of each of those sports, then you have the casual fans, the crossover fans that support the home teams, and then you have the "Bandwagon" fans. So the inference that MLS would do well in Tulsa because there is no competition is a false analogy. There are MLS teams in cities where there other major sports teams and they do well. There are soccer fans in Tulsa, and they will support a semi pro, or pro, team.

To say that in OKC, the discretionary dollars for pro sports are committed to the Thunder is just an arrogant statement that you have the pro team, and anything else won't survive. Look at the population of Minneapolis/St. Paul. Each city is smaller than Tulsa, and yes the combined is larger than Tulsa's MSA, similar to the combined Tulsa/OKC MSA, and they can support MLB, NFL, NBA and NHL.

By the way, I keep forgetting that OU has some of the highest paid athletes in college football.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2014, 03:24:54 am by dbacksfan 2.0 » Logged
Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 6   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

 
  Hosted by TulsaConnect and Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines
 

Mission

 

"TulsaNow's Mission is to help Tulsa become the most vibrant, diverse, sustainable and prosperous city of our size. We achieve this by focusing on the development of Tulsa's distinctive identity and economic growth around a dynamic, urban core, complemented by a constellation of livable, thriving communities."
more...

 

Contact

 

2210 S Main St.
Tulsa, OK 74114
(918) 409-2669
info@tulsanow.org