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November 21, 2017, 01:11:30 pm
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Author Topic: Government Regulation and Jimmy John's  (Read 5227 times)
Townsend
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« Reply #15 on: November 15, 2012, 10:49:43 am »

Government regulations also level the playing field by discouraging collusion, price fixing and gouging. Regulations ensure that the "ham" you are advertising in your Sandwich actually has some "ham" in it.

Caveat emptor.

And that places don't exceed the acceptable amount of rodent hair and bug excrement in their processed foods.
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Conan71
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« Reply #16 on: November 15, 2012, 11:34:07 am »

Government regulations are what keep mouse droppings out of your Jimmy Johns. 


One reason why I never used to get the chocolate sprinkles on my donuts.
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"It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession. I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first” -Ronald Reagan
heironymouspasparagus
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« Reply #17 on: November 15, 2012, 12:07:04 pm »

My point is that government regulations and taxes hinder economic growth. Nothing more to it.


These guys around here are all too nice to you.  That is an absolute crock of carp!  For all the reasons they said, plus about a hundred more or so, right down to the traffic regulations that allow people to reasonably travel to your stores!  Hey, how about those pesky "unwarranted government intrusions' that make you have restrooms in each store.  Or handwash sinks.  Or guards on the slicers.  Or a big, king size bucket of other stuff?

Geeeeezzz...  Now, I gotta ask - did you an erfalf go to the same business school?  Both of you need to step back from the Kook-Aid a bit.

They hinder growth in exactly the same means and scale that every other business expense hinders growth.  It is another line item in you economic evaluations that determine whether what you say you want to do is viable or not.  It would be absolutely ridiculous for me to not take into account the fact that I am paying someone $12.00 per hour, but instead say to myself in my little MurdochianFantasyWorld that I should be able to get competent, conscientious employees to do what I need done for $2.50 an hour.  You know what the regulations are (or you didn't do proper due diligence before you started - like the health department regulation that you must have a certified food manager on duty, along with all food permit people.)  You know that employees cost you $x.xx.  You know that rent is $y.yy.  You SHOULD be reasonably able to foresee if you have paid ANY attention to the history of the last 30 years - with emphasis on the last 12 - that taxes will HAVE to go up, cuts to government MUST be made, and costs overall are gonna climb.  Unless we enter into a deflationary cycle... which I hope never happens!

And new regulations - well some may happen.  And there is ALWAYS long advanced notices before implementation.  You cannot possibly - reasonably - be taken by surprise without more than adequate notice to allow you to plan and adjust.  DOES NOT HAPPEN!!  I have literally been dealing with a ton of that kind of stuff industrially, and now in food related, for 40 years and yeah, it is a pain in the butt sometimes, but NEVER has it hindered what the goal of the enterprise was beyond the above mentioned cost issues.  (I built a small commercial kitchen that had a big learning curve for me, so some amount of pain, but received high marks and praises from the health department!  And it was economically feasible/practical.)

As an example, if you cannot "afford" to make a sub shop that doesn't have a commercial refrigerator, then you shouldn't be in business to start with, so get out of the way and let someone do it who can!

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“When you wage war on the public schools, you're attacking the mortar that holds the community together. You're not a conservative, you're a vandal.”    - Garrison Keillor

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DowntownDan
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« Reply #18 on: November 15, 2012, 03:29:02 pm »

Just don't tell him that small business didn't build the roads and highways leading to their businesses, or the reservoirs and plumbing and treatment facilities that pump fresh water into their business and remove waste, or that they didn't build the power plants and miles upon miles of lines that bring electricity to their businesses, or that they didn't create the courts of law that prevent people from robbing the business and punishes those who do.  Don't you dare say that.  Because they did all of that all on their own.  They benefited nothing from that infrastructure or from the governemental systems that protect them.  They do it all by themselves.  No benefit from the taxpayer funded public systems or processes whatsoever.
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nathanm
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« Reply #19 on: November 15, 2012, 03:51:53 pm »

Damn communists, the lot of you.
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"Labor is prior to and independent of capital. Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if labor had not first existed. Labor is the superior of capital, and deserves much the higher consideration" --Abraham Lincoln
davideinstein
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« Reply #20 on: November 16, 2012, 12:56:28 am »

Any reason why we should make people that earn low wages go pay for a food handlers card? Seems like a regressive tax for the most part. Do we really need a payroll tax and sales tax around 8%? Lower that tax, spend wiser and you will help out the consumer and leave more labor open for employment opportunities. Why should the employer be forced to provide health care? Is that the best solution to getting much needed health care to people? Or do we end up with low wage employees working two part time jobs instead of one full time job and limiting their experience to advance at just one job?
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davideinstein
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« Reply #21 on: November 16, 2012, 12:58:55 am »

Just don't tell him that small business didn't build the roads and highways leading to their businesses, or the reservoirs and plumbing and treatment facilities that pump fresh water into their business and remove waste, or that they didn't build the power plants and miles upon miles of lines that bring electricity to their businesses, or that they didn't create the courts of law that prevent people from robbing the business and punishes those who do.  Don't you dare say that.  Because they did all of that all on their own.  They benefited nothing from that infrastructure or from the governemental systems that protect them.  They do it all by themselves.  No benefit from the taxpayer funded public systems or processes whatsoever.

At what point did I say I was opposed to public infrastructure?
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nathanm
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« Reply #22 on: November 16, 2012, 01:48:33 am »

The same health department that stops mouse droppings (our corporate standards are what does that actually)...requires us to have two hand sinks in the front kitchen for no reason and two prep sinks for no reason. I realize regulations are needed and I made a blanket statement on regulation. But it can be overzealous at times.

If one sink breaks, you still have a working hand sink and don't need to shut the store to avoid violating the health code. If Oklahoma requires a food handler's license to work in a fast food place, you've got my total support in getting that repealed. I am perfectly OK with requiring that managers and shift leaders take specific food safety training, but I don't see the need for an actual license. That said, I would think that having your employees trained on food safety would reduce the risk of being fined by the health department, so maybe it's a good idea from that perspective.
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"Labor is prior to and independent of capital. Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if labor had not first existed. Labor is the superior of capital, and deserves much the higher consideration" --Abraham Lincoln
dbacks fan
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« Reply #23 on: November 16, 2012, 04:39:56 am »

The same health department that stops mouse droppings (our corporate standards are what does that actually)...requires us to have two hand sinks in the front kitchen for no reason and two prep sinks for no reason. I realize regulations are needed and I made a blanket statement on regulation. But it can be overzealous at times.

Remind me which ones you own, I won't be eating there, because profit over consumer safety sounds more important to you.
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heironymouspasparagus
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« Reply #24 on: November 16, 2012, 07:11:09 am »

The same health department that stops mouse droppings (our corporate standards are what does that actually)...requires us to have two hand sinks in the front kitchen for no reason and two prep sinks for no reason. I realize regulations are needed and I made a blanket statement on regulation. But it can be overzealous at times.

Your corporate standards are there EXACTLY because that is what the health department specifically requires on mouse droppings. 

Do tell,...where did the dual sink thing come about?  As of just a couple of years ago, I wasn't required to do that.  Maybe has to do with square footage or number of employees.  The kitchen I built was very smale - under 600 square feet - and only 4 to 6 people work in it.

NO health department regulation is for "no reason".  What you are very intentionally trying to do is deflect - so, how about finishing the sentence and saying WHAT specific reason the health department gives you for requiring tow sinks.  I know YOU feel it is NO reason - am curious to see if all would agree.

As for "making employees" pay a regressive tax such as the food handlers permit....are you freeking kidding me???  YOU don't pay the $10 for their permit??  (Yes, I do.  I reimburse ALL expenses they accrue specifically related to the operation of my business.  Why should they pay for MY business when undoubtedly, I get the biggest reward.)

As for the certified food managers - yep, I pay for their class and their permit.  Do you?

How about uniforms?  I don't remember seeing any when I was there, but yes, I pay for the shirts required - jeans they already got. 


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“When you wage war on the public schools, you're attacking the mortar that holds the community together. You're not a conservative, you're a vandal.”    - Garrison Keillor

Use it up, wear it out, make it do, or do without.

What you do speaks so loud, I cannot hear what you say.
tulsa_fan
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« Reply #25 on: November 16, 2012, 08:26:46 am »

Wasn't there a thread once where it was pondered why so many people look but few comment?  WoW, I mean you can disagree with someone's opinion but if I was the JJ guy, I'd be done posting my opinions as well.  Maybe he doesn't have time to sit down and compose a well thought out dissertation on his frustrations with over involvement by the government, maybe he's too busy trying to find ways to grow his organization to go pull statutes and laws to quote.  That doesn't mean I can't see what he is trying to say, over involvement by the government stiffles growth.
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heironymouspasparagus
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« Reply #26 on: November 16, 2012, 11:45:41 am »

Wasn't there a thread once where it was pondered why so many people look but few comment?  WoW, I mean you can disagree with someone's opinion but if I was the JJ guy, I'd be done posting my opinions as well.  Maybe he doesn't have time to sit down and compose a well thought out dissertation on his frustrations with over involvement by the government, maybe he's too busy trying to find ways to grow his organization to go pull statutes and laws to quote.  That doesn't mean I can't see what he is trying to say, over involvement by the government stiffles growth.


Again...see previous...it's another business expense/issue to be managed like ALL of them.  It is like saying the cost of soap for those sinks is stifling growth.  I get frustrated by a lot of things related to the business I do, but don't go whining about any particular one more than the other - they are ALL pains in the backside.  Managing them is the key to prevent any of them from stifling my growth.  A small warehouse/factory is my major pain these days.  And I can't afford a bigger one yet, so I guess I am stifled.  It's like playing Farmville or Nile Online, though.  Management of issues is key.  I will grow.  Without whining about how it is 'gubmint' or union holding me back.  I do factor all those things in so they don't hold me back.  






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“When you wage war on the public schools, you're attacking the mortar that holds the community together. You're not a conservative, you're a vandal.”    - Garrison Keillor

Use it up, wear it out, make it do, or do without.

What you do speaks so loud, I cannot hear what you say.
Conan71
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« Reply #27 on: November 16, 2012, 11:49:17 am »

Wasn't there a thread once where it was pondered why so many people look but few comment?  WoW, I mean you can disagree with someone's opinion but if I was the JJ guy, I'd be done posting my opinions as well.  Maybe he doesn't have time to sit down and compose a well thought out dissertation on his frustrations with over involvement by the government, maybe he's too busy trying to find ways to grow his organization to go pull statutes and laws to quote.  That doesn't mean I can't see what he is trying to say, over involvement by the government stiffles growth.

I always get a kick out of people who have never taken the risk to start or run their own business from the ground up who pontificate as if they are experts on how it is done and the daily challenges of a small business owner. 

It would be like me describing to you what being pregnant and child birth is like simply because I've fathered two daughters.  Wink
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"It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession. I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first” -Ronald Reagan
Townsend
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« Reply #28 on: November 16, 2012, 11:52:43 am »


It would be like me describing to you what being pregnant and child birth is like simply because I've fathered two daughters.  Wink

You have to be a Middle aged white male United States Republican congressman first.
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heironymouspasparagus
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« Reply #29 on: November 16, 2012, 11:57:43 am »

I always get a kick out of people who have never taken the risk to start or run their own business from the ground up who pontificate as if they are experts on how it is done and the daily challenges of a small business owner. 

It would be like me describing to you what being pregnant and child birth is like simply because I've fathered two daughters.  Wink

Moi??

I have started 4.  One failed spectacularly - and expensively.  One slowly ground to a halt due to economy and inadequate sales capability - my failures - made money - good margins, just not enough total.  Third - I am very cautiously optimistic - doing ok so far.  Fourth just getting started - need more manufacturing space - time will tell - prototypes excellent and doing well in field trials.

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“When you wage war on the public schools, you're attacking the mortar that holds the community together. You're not a conservative, you're a vandal.”    - Garrison Keillor

Use it up, wear it out, make it do, or do without.

What you do speaks so loud, I cannot hear what you say.
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