|
|
|
AquaMan
|
 |
« Reply #1 on: August 10, 2012, 10:05:24 am » |
|
"Most of the area was destroyed in the riot, and what remained, along with most of early post-riot Greenwood, has been lost to urban renewal and other forces. " Read more from this Tulsa World article at http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=11&articleid=20120810_16_A11_ANatio845552&allcom=1What a great line to avoid reality. It wasn't lost, it was destroyed. The "other forces" were the rampant crime in the area that led to the "loss". The solution by leaders in the 70's was to bull doze the area and leave the bones. I intend to name my next dog, "Worthless Jackass". WoJack for short. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
onward...through the fog
|
|
|
|
AquaMan
|
|
« Reply #2 on: August 10, 2012, 10:43:54 am » |
|
It is weird to see parts of downtown so far removed from Greenwood being included in a historic district related to the race riot. If that is the best they can do to get approval, they should just drop the whole thing. Even if it means a loss of some grant money or whatever.
IMO the relations between the races in Tulsa has been so damaged in the past 105 years as to be un-repairable in my lifetime. It started with the refusal to grant Native Americans their own state as Roosevelt had promised and continued with the expropriation of water rights to Spavinaw by state and city leaders. Followed by the destruction of a community based on their race and the prosperity they achieved with little help from the rest of the city.
The final arrow to the heart is the lack of understanding by the dominant culture that those were and are important events to those cultures and has economically blunted them.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
onward...through the fog
|
|
|
|
TheArtist
|
|
« Reply #3 on: August 10, 2012, 12:25:06 pm » |
|
I read somewhere that Tulsa once had some of the highest population densities of any city in the country and that there were about 20,000 people living in the Greenwood area alone. How large an area was that?
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
"When you only have two pennies left in the world, buy a loaf of bread with one, and a lily with the other."-Chinese proverb. "Arts a staple. Like bread or wine or a warm coat in winter. Those who think it is a luxury have only a fragment of a mind. Mans spirit grows hungry for art in the same way h
|
|
|
|
Teatownclown
|
|
« Reply #4 on: August 10, 2012, 12:38:32 pm » |
|
I read somewhere that Tulsa once had some of the highest population densities of any city in the country and that there were about 20,000 people living in the Greenwood area alone. How large an area was that?
About %95 smaller than the area designated...including areas to the south known as Downtown. As a matter of fact, these areas in downtown were off limits to many of the 20,000. Oh, the irony will kill me. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
RecycleMichael
|
|
« Reply #5 on: August 10, 2012, 01:35:11 pm » |
|
The race riot was 92 years ago. Most of the area has changed.
Local preservation activists, after all these years, are trying to get the area designated to help preserve what is left and highlight the historical significance. I applaud them for doing this.
In order to gain historic status, they needed to add in structures still standing that had any role in the riot. Areas like city hall were not destroyed in the riot, but still had involvement in the events.
It is not perfect, but the preservation folks are trying. Of course, no good idea or effort can ever happen without somebody complaining that it ain't perfect.
When complaining happens, teatownclown will be near. He is like a super hero for the malcontent.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
Power is nothing till you use it.
|
|
|
|
Teatownclown
|
|
« Reply #6 on: August 10, 2012, 02:49:25 pm » |
|
The race riot was 92 years ago. Most of the area has changed.
Local preservation activists, after all these years, are trying to get the area designated to help preserve what is left and highlight the historical significance. I applaud them for doing this.
In order to gain historic status, they needed to add in structures still standing that had any role in the riot. Areas like city hall were not destroyed in the riot, but still had involvement in the events.
It is not perfect, but the preservation folks are trying. Of course, no good idea or effort can ever happen without somebody complaining that it ain't perfect.
When complaining happens, teatownclown will be near. He is like a super hero for the malcontent.
In one post you say there is no wind. Then you prove you've got plenty here. Malcontent or town crier? I just try to point out macro issues that supersede the pi$$ing away of taxpayer monies and government inconsistencies. You just blowhard the corporate and Chamber horn. You're just a faux environmentalist and you certainly don't understand the intent behind some of these "programs". Ruben has good reason. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
RecycleMichael
|
|
« Reply #7 on: August 10, 2012, 03:01:22 pm » |
|
...you certainly don't understand the intent behind some of these "programs".
Please explain the intent behind some of these "programs". |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
Power is nothing till you use it.
|
|
|
|
Teatownclown
|
|
« Reply #8 on: August 10, 2012, 03:13:24 pm » |
|
Please explain the intent behind some of these "programs".
Seems obvious to me that there was no intent to move this designation North to include the areas truly decimated by 90 years of ignorance. Why expand the designation into central downtown? Easy. To gift future developers "incentive" for cheaply renovating structures while lining their pockets. The government should have no reason to interfere with free enterprise. The government might consider it facilitating but it's not. And it does not make for a city wide level playing field. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
Red Arrow
|
|
« Reply #9 on: August 10, 2012, 03:25:23 pm » |
|
Followed by the destruction of a community based on their race and the prosperity they achieved with little help from the rest of the city.
How is that possible? |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
Red Arrow
|
|
« Reply #10 on: August 10, 2012, 03:27:33 pm » |
|
Lots here can't stand me because I represent that side of the culture war that focuses on injustice, oppression, and systematic failure.
I think the way you do it deserves an equal billing. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Teatownclown
|
|
« Reply #12 on: August 10, 2012, 04:53:57 pm » |
|
I am a regular guy. I am not bloated.... |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
AquaMan
|
|
« Reply #13 on: August 10, 2012, 05:49:40 pm » |
|
How is that possible?
You clever fellow, you. No community survives on its own but, they came close. That community took care of the white folks and themselves. They had their own schools, their own restaurants, their own bankers and their own retail. When they started to prosper and became competition for the areas south of the tracks the frustration was too much. Some say that the riot was partly due to the urging of the wealthy who depended on the black maids and butlers to clean their homes, watch their kids and drive their cars, prepare and serve food. Once black folks no longer needed those jobs, the buses and street cars suffered, the retail declined. Lots of elements at play, including returning soldiers, klan popularity and good old fashioned fear. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
onward...through the fog
|
|
|
|
Red Arrow
|
|
« Reply #14 on: August 10, 2012, 08:17:37 pm » |
|
Once black folks no longer needed those jobs, the buses and street cars suffered, the retail declined.
I am not going to refute your statement but I would have thought that the rising economic viability of the black community would have kept the retail arena alive. I'm sure there are some factors I am not aware of in play. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
