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June 19, 2019, 08:31:41 pm
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Author Topic: Tulsa Public Schools Spending  (Read 94714 times)
RecycleMichael
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« Reply #120 on: April 20, 2012, 10:09:48 am »

Two choices:

1. Force (does not work)
2. Change the way they feel about learning.


What a simpleton version of the world.

We can stop divorce if we just change the way people think about their spouse. We could just stop obesity if we change the way people feel about food. Why, I bet we could stop war if we just change the way people feel about killing.
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Red Arrow
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« Reply #121 on: April 20, 2012, 10:17:17 am »

We can stop divorce if we just change the way people think about their spouse.


Marriage is the leading cause of divorce.  We can stop divorce by stopping marriage.
 
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RecycleMichael
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« Reply #122 on: April 20, 2012, 10:40:17 am »

There are only two ways to end marriage. One partner watching the other one die is the preferred ending over divorce.
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« Reply #123 on: April 20, 2012, 11:28:15 am »

There are only two ways to end marriage. One partner watching the other one die is the preferred ending over divorce.

So do you believe that killing your spouse to watch them die is preferable to divorce?
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Gaspar
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« Reply #124 on: April 20, 2012, 11:37:09 am »

What a simpleton version of the world.

We can stop divorce if we just change the way people think about their spouse. We could just stop obesity if we change the way people feel about food. Why, I bet we could stop war if we just change the way people feel about killing.

You're a teacher.  You have a charge who is not interested in learning what you have to teach.

What do you do?
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RecycleMichael
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« Reply #125 on: April 20, 2012, 11:47:26 am »

You're a teacher.  You have a charge who is not interested in learning what you have to teach.

What do you do?

You're a sales manager. You have a salesman who is not interested in selling.

What do you do?

Remember now that you can't fire them.
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RecycleMichael
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« Reply #126 on: April 20, 2012, 11:49:48 am »

So do you believe that killing your spouse to watch them die is preferable to divorce?

Nobody said anything about killing spouses.
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Gaspar
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« Reply #127 on: April 20, 2012, 12:37:32 pm »

You're a sales manager. You have a salesman who is not interested in selling.

What do you do?

Remember now that you can't fire them.

Ok, I guess I'll answer the question.

If he is not interested in selling, the incentive for selling is either too low or his comfort level (not to sell ) is too high.  So I adjust those.

It's always a value proposition.  If a person realizes value in taking certain actions that is greater than the value in not acting, they are likely to change their behavior.

In other words, you change the way they feel about selling.

What other way is there?
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« Reply #128 on: April 20, 2012, 12:45:53 pm »

Nobody said anything about killing.

Right, which is what left that option open.  Your simple statement of watching someone die did not specify the how or why they were dying.  Perhaps the spouses could die together in a big fireball car wreck.  They probably wouldn't actually watch each other die but it would not be divorce.

(I know that is not what you meant)
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RecycleMichael
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« Reply #129 on: April 20, 2012, 12:53:40 pm »

If he is not interested in selling, the incentive for selling is either too low or his comfort level (not to sell ) is too high.  So I adjust those.

How do you do that as a school? What are the incentives you can give a kid?

Remember that you have limits on your actions (no swats nor free ice cream).

These are not adults. They often come from broken homes and are very poor. Sometimes they are the only one in their family who speaks English. The state law says we will have 25 kids per classroom and suddenly you have 30. Often there are nor even enough chairs or textbooks.

The problems facing are public schools are immense. Thousands of dedicated people are doing all they can to work the problems.

It is insulting to every educator to say the simple answer to fixing education is to make kids feel differently.
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Gaspar
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« Reply #130 on: April 20, 2012, 01:47:29 pm »

How do you do that as a school? What are the incentives you can give a kid?

Remember that you have limits on your actions (no swats nor free ice cream).

These are not adults. They often come from broken homes and are very poor. Sometimes they are the only one in their family who speaks English. The state law says we will have 25 kids per classroom and suddenly you have 30. Often there are nor even enough chairs or textbooks.

The problems facing are public schools are immense. Thousands of dedicated people are doing all they can to work the problems.

It is insulting to every educator to say the simple answer to fixing education is to make kids feel differently.

RM, The solution is simple, the job is very hard.  I can't even imagine the patients it would take to do it, and when you are responsible for more children than hours in the day, there is no way that you will be able to manage that job.  

Just because the job is difficult does not change the nature or application of the solution.  Many kids may have the same set of motivations, but some will simply be motivated by other prizes.  True for all people.  

Back to the original discussion, the solution has always been to throw more money at the problem, which is in-turn used to build more complexity rather than to directly solve the problem, yet it is still proposed as the only solution.

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RecycleMichael
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« Reply #131 on: April 20, 2012, 09:27:19 pm »

While I agree that the problem is rarely solved by throwing money at it, it is never solved by taking money away.

The state legislature just continues to take money away from public education and now we have a state education superintendent who thinks killing public schools will make her Governor someday.

All we seem to do with our tax dollars is build museums for OKC, prisons for powerful politician's districts, and four year colleges for small towns. Just wait until they make the official ask for the hundreds of millions to fix up the state capitol building. 
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heironymouspasparagus
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« Reply #132 on: April 22, 2012, 08:50:00 pm »


Just because the job is difficult does not change the nature or application of the solution.  Many kids may have the same set of motivations, but some will simply be motivated by other prizes.  True for all people.  

Back to the original discussion, the solution has always been to throw more money at the problem, which is in-turn used to build more complexity rather than to directly solve the problem, yet it is still proposed as the only solution.



None of this is applicable to Oklahoma due to the facts that RM is talking about - education is not keeping up, which means it is being cut.  If we were even in the top 1/3, then the notion about "throwing money" might be a point to look at.  But since we are about #45 or so, that whole premise is a typical Fox type BS moment - cutesy little sound bite, but only the most casual connection to planet Earth reality.



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I donít share my thoughts because I think it will change the minds of people who think differently.  I share my thoughts to show the people who already think like me that they are not alone.
ZYX
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« Reply #133 on: April 22, 2012, 08:58:56 pm »

None of this is applicable to Oklahoma due to the facts that RM is talking about - education is not keeping up, which means it is being cut.  If we were even in the top 1/3, then the notion about "throwing money" might be a point to look at.  But since we are about #45 or so, that whole premise is a typical Fox type BS moment - cutesy little sound bite, but only the most casual connection to planet Earth reality.





So you're saying we simply need to spend more money, and then, once that money is wasted, assess why spending more money hasn't helped anything?

Whaaaaaa?
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heironymouspasparagus
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« Reply #134 on: April 22, 2012, 09:12:14 pm »

So you're saying we simply need to spend more money, and then, once that money is wasted, assess why spending more money hasn't helped anything?

Whaaaaaa?


So, you are as simplistic as Gaspar??

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"So he brandished a gun, never shot anyone or anything right?"  --TeeDub, 17 Feb 2018.

I donít share my thoughts because I think it will change the minds of people who think differently.  I share my thoughts to show the people who already think like me that they are not alone.
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