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November 23, 2017, 06:06:53 pm
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Author Topic: Tulsa Public Schools Spending  (Read 33119 times)
heironymouspasparagus
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« Reply #15 on: April 10, 2012, 09:23:53 am »

   A thought occurred to me that so much of our school problems are related to the kids not having good parents with good life skills/habits and parenting skills.  This even spills over into the "special needs" debate and the cry for "simple accommodations" for them.  If the teacher is struggling to take care of the average kid and keep the classroom in line, they aren't going to have much time for that next level of effort taking care of the special needs kids.  But even then many a special needs kid can have a better lot if their parents are also capable.

  Anywhoo, the thought was, if its the parents that are a good portion of the problem... Why don't we then really focus on teaching kids how to be good parents and people with good life skills?  Todays students are tomorrows parents.  They may not excell on the math tests, but their children will.   Break the generational cycle.

  This doesn't need to be done in every school.  I have always said that not every program will work for every school for the demographics are different. 

  Back to breaking that generational cycle.  I have seen many an instance where the parent may not have been all that educated, but they were good parents who made sure their children learned their good life/parenting habits AND made sure their children learned in school.  It may be that in many an instance we are teaching the wrong things in some of our schools. 

That pretty well covers it.  Tough sell, ain't it?

Kind of like preventative care in medical field reduces costs dramatically.
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“When you wage war on the public schools, you're attacking the mortar that holds the community together. You're not a conservative, you're a vandal.”    - Garrison Keillor

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Gaspar
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« Reply #16 on: April 10, 2012, 01:20:41 pm »

Tulsa public system is the number one bureaucracy in Tulsa surpassing even the glass cube of city hall.   They seem to have no intentions to educate the children but instead to provide for the collections of taxes for the maintenance of their bureaucracy.  Under the guise of the well used cliché “It is for the children” it continues to burden the working poor with children who have a need for public education.  The fundamentals needed to educate the children are written off when increasing monies are spent on sports thus leaving the book learning to a disinterest group of teachers and students.

If the citizens would close the coffee shop, in the education center and reduce the staff to people without a teaching certificate, placing those qualified to teach in the class rooms, it not only would reduce taxpayers cost but provide a more balanced education.  The old saying that the bigger makes it better does not apply in the Tulsa public system.     


Dang it!  Just read Shadow's post and all I can see in my head is this guy.


Anyway. . .Anyone up for a voucher program?

The least we can do is take public education out of the bureaucracy of government and allow private enterprise to run it and compete for students through better programs, higher test scores, and more competitive academic offerings.

. . . or we can just throw more money at it.

My wife is a teacher (no longer practicing) and most of her friends still teach in TPS and Jenks.  They all echo the same frustrations.  Teaching has become a bureaucratic nightmare of standardized evaluation and regulation not designed to recognize the unique way that each child learns, but rather to maintain a minimum performance level for the class.  As a result, rather than cultivating excellence, the system is designed to maintain minimums.

In any education platform, parental involvement is absolutely necessary.  The best way to encourage that is to provide education as an investment, giving parents the ability to choose where to spend that investment.  When you do that, the parents "own" their child's education. 

The current system encourages irresponsible parents to view public education as free daycare.


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ZYX
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« Reply #17 on: April 10, 2012, 01:31:49 pm »

  A thought occurred to me that so much of our school problems are related to the kids not having good parents with good life skills/habits and parenting skills.  This even spills over into the "special needs" debate and the cry for "simple accommodations" for them.  If the teacher is struggling to take care of the average kid and keep the classroom in line, they aren't going to have much time for that next level of effort taking care of the special needs kids.  But even then many a special needs kid can have a better lot if their parents are also capable.

  Anywhoo, the thought was, if its the parents that are a good portion of the problem... Why don't we then really focus on teaching kids how to be good parents and people with good life skills?  Todays students are tomorrows parents.  They may not excell on the math tests, but their children will.   Break the generational cycle.

  This doesn't need to be done in every school.  I have always said that not every program will work for every school for the demographics are different.  

  Back to breaking that generational cycle.  I have seen many an instance where the parent may not have been all that educated, but they were good parents who made sure their children learned their good life/parenting habits AND made sure their children learned in school.  It may be that in many an instance we are teaching the wrong things in some of our schools.  

I only marginally agree with this. I think the major problem with education is in the schools, not at home. Sure, parents need to be involved in education, and a teacher cannot complete their job without the help of parents, but the biggest problem is in the way children are taught. Administration, as well as some teachers, believe that children should be taught for the next test, and that reading a good ol' textbook is the best way to learn. Test scores look good on paper, but what is really being learned?

For example, does one better learn science by reading a textbook and copying vocabulary lists, or by performing experiments and getting outside to see how things actually work? Is it okay for a teacher assume that every child should learn something in the way they instruct them?

I encourage all of you to research the Reggio approach, and share your opinions.
« Last Edit: April 10, 2012, 01:53:55 pm by ZYX » Logged
jacobi
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« Reply #18 on: April 10, 2012, 01:34:15 pm »

Quote
For example, does one better learn science by reading a textbook and copying vocabulary lists, or by performing experience and getting outside to see how things actually work? Is it okay for a teacher assume that every child should learn something in the way they instruct them?


I'd say both are important.
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nathanm
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« Reply #19 on: April 10, 2012, 01:49:28 pm »

I encourage all of you to research the Reggio approach, and share your opinions.

I think we'd all be better off if each and every child was educated in a Montessori school, but I don't see it happening any time soon. Most parents freak when they hear their kid was washing dishes all day or whatever other unproductive (in the sense of school learning) thing they happened to do one day or even a whole week at a time.
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Conan71
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« Reply #20 on: April 10, 2012, 01:51:34 pm »

I think we'd all be better off if each and every child was educated in a Montessori school, but I don't see it happening any time soon. Most parents freak when they hear their kid was washing dishes all day or whatever other unproductive (in the sense of school learning) thing they happened to do one day or even a whole week at a time.

I’m a parent of children who spent part of their elementary education in Montessori and I’m a huge believer.  Personally, I’m a very kinetic learner, books always bogged me down.  I learned far more about physics, chemistry, and advanced math after I left school and could see it in ways which better appealed to my sense of curiosity.
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ZYX
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« Reply #21 on: April 10, 2012, 01:53:09 pm »

I think we'd all be better off if each and every child was educated in a Montessori school, but I don't see it happening any time soon. Most parents freak when they hear their kid was washing dishes all day or whatever other unproductive (in the sense of school learning) thing they happened to do one day or even a whole week at a time.

If you mean the way that Marie (?) Montessori wanted it taught, then I agree. If you mean the way it is taught in many "Montessori" schools, then I disagree.
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nathanm
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« Reply #22 on: April 10, 2012, 01:54:02 pm »

I’m a parent of children who spent part of their elementary education in Montessori and I’m a huge believer.  Personally, I’m a very kinetic learner, books always bogged me down.  I learned far more about physics, chemistry, and advanced math after I left school and could see it in ways which better appealed to my sense of curiosity.

If only everyone were like you and I, Conan. Wink

Wait, no. That would be awful. There would be no women.  Shocked

ZYX, please elaborate.
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« Reply #23 on: April 10, 2012, 01:57:49 pm »

If only everyone were like you and I, Conan. Wink

Wait, no. That would be awful. There would be no women.  Shocked

ZYX, please elaborate.

I have been told by my mother's head of school that Ms. Montessori would roll over in her grave at the way education is performed in many of the "Montessori" schools. She wanted a very open ended and child led approach to education. I have been told, that in most Montessori schools, doing things the "wrong" way is discouraged, something that she advocated against.

Children should not be mere subjects in the classroom, they should be a loud voice in their own education.
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Conan71
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« Reply #24 on: April 10, 2012, 02:03:48 pm »

I have been told by my mother's head of school that Ms. Montessori would roll over in her grave at the way education is performed in many of the "Montessori" schools. She wanted a very open ended and child led approach to education. I have been told, that in most Montessori schools, doing things the "wrong" way is discouraged, something that she advocated against.

Children should not be mere subjects in the classroom, they should be a loud voice in their own education.

I can’t speak for all Montessori schools, but from my experience, Undercroft was very child-led.  Children were given some structure to work, there has to be some sense of structure or it would be chaos with 5 to 8 year olds in the same class room.  Wink  Their guides (not teachers) would help facilitate the process.

I do believe there is some sort of certification process to become a Montessori school and to maintain the designation.
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nathanm
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« Reply #25 on: April 10, 2012, 03:17:30 pm »

I can’t speak for all Montessori schools, but from my experience, Undercroft was very child-led.

That was also my experience going to a Montessori (run by the nuns!) in Fort Smith as a kid. And it matches quite well what a friend of mine who teaches at Undercroft says their program is like. It's difficult for a lot of parents to understand, though. There are many days where a kid learns next to nothing (or at least nothing you'd expect a school to be teaching a kid) in Montessori schools and it sometimes freaks the parents out.

Over the long term, I think kids get a much better education in that environment. It's not just about facts and figures and math, though. Montessori helps kids learn how to learn. Traditional school doesn't do that very well. Which, by the way, is completely understandable. They are working within a framework that was initially designed to supply somewhat educated factory workers. And there's nothing really wrong with that, I just don't think it's the best we can do.
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"Labor is prior to and independent of capital. Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if labor had not first existed. Labor is the superior of capital, and deserves much the higher consideration" --Abraham Lincoln
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« Reply #26 on: April 10, 2012, 03:21:58 pm »

That was also my experience going to a Montessori (run by the nuns!) in Fort Smith as a kid. And it matches quite well what a friend of mine who teaches at Undercroft says their program is like. It's difficult for a lot of parents to understand, though. There are many days where a kid learns next to nothing (or at least nothing you'd expect a school to be teaching a kid) in Montessori schools and it sometimes freaks the parents out.

Over the long term, I think kids get a much better education in that environment. It's not just about facts and figures and math, though. Montessori helps kids learn how to learn. Traditional school doesn't do that very well. Which, by the way, is completely understandable. They are working within a framework that was initially designed to supply somewhat educated factory workers. And there's nothing really wrong with that, I just don't think it's the best we can do.

Well stated.
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Teatownclown
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« Reply #27 on: April 10, 2012, 03:24:41 pm »

That was also my experience going to a Montessori (run by the nuns!) in Fort Smith as a kid. And it matches quite well what a friend of mine who teaches at Undercroft says their program is like. It's difficult for a lot of parents to understand, though. There are many days where a kid learns next to nothing (or at least nothing you'd expect a school to be teaching a kid) in Montessori schools and it sometimes freaks the parents out.

Over the long term, I think kids get a much better education in that environment. It's not just about facts and figures and math, though. Montessori helps kids learn how to learn. Traditional school doesn't do that very well. Which, by the way, is completely understandable. They are working within a framework that was initially designed to supply somewhat educated factory workers. And there's nothing really wrong with that, I just don't think it's the best we can do.

It breeds libs, those schools....why do you think home schools are so popular?
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nathanm
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« Reply #28 on: April 10, 2012, 03:30:26 pm »

It breeds libs, those schools....why do you think home schools are so popular?

If public schools breed liberals I'm a flying purple people eater.
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« Reply #29 on: April 10, 2012, 04:59:52 pm »

If public schools breed liberals I'm a flying purple people eater.

One eye?  One horn?  (Just stick to the words of the song, nothing else intended.)

How about a "Witch Doctor"?
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