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January 16, 2019, 11:21:15 pm
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Author Topic: Arena District Master Plan  (Read 549 times)
ELG4America
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« on: January 07, 2019, 01:57:23 pm »

https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/local/city-to-unveil-arena-district-master-plan-could-a-park/article_1e1dadaf-2bda-5f8e-a28e-34cda84ac003.html

New Arena District Master Plan to be announced tonight.

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swake
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« Reply #1 on: January 07, 2019, 02:34:53 pm »

The plan is ridiculous.

It calls for buying back and tearing down the five year old aLoft hotel in the old city hall. It also calls for the re-closing of 5th Street in front of the library, you know, the street the city just rebuilt and reopened? And last, it calls for tearing down the police courts building and the city jail that the city just reopened.

Seriously?  The city paid for this nonsense?
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ELG4America
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« Reply #2 on: January 07, 2019, 03:06:03 pm »

I believe that was the draft plan. Hopefully the city will announce tonight something that represents some changes from that plan. Also it does reflect a 20 year plan so if those potentially objectionable items are among the final portions of the plan completed they wouldn't be so new.
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swake
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« Reply #3 on: January 07, 2019, 03:20:38 pm »

I believe that was the draft plan. Hopefully the city will announce tonight something that represents some changes from that plan. Also it does reflect a 20 year plan so if those potentially objectionable items are among the final portions of the plan completed they wouldn't be so new.

I can see tearing down the police building, especially in the long term, for an expanded convention center/convention hotel.  But even over 20 years the extreme expense it would take to buy the aLoft to tear it down for a little park space and a non specific "multi-use" project makes no sense. These plans need to deal with reality and that isn't realistic.

But the worst the is park/plaza area in the place of 5th Street. Because we tried that for 50 years in that exact place in front of those exact buildings and it was a complete failure for the entire 50 years. It looks nice in drawings, filled with people eating ice cream. It won't work. It hasn't worked. We need to restore the street grid as possible, not remove streets for main mall style promenades. They don't work.
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Conan71
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« Reply #4 on: January 07, 2019, 06:52:31 pm »

Is the Cox Center doing that many bookings to justify an expansion as well as wiping out a hotel?  Seems like if there is still a shortage of hotel rooms, you simply build another to compliment what is already in place considering the A-Loft isn't a dilapidated relic from 50 years ago.
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"It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession. I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first” -Ronald Reagan
SXSW
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« Reply #5 on: January 07, 2019, 11:08:14 pm »

The report states that there could be two options for a convention center hotel.  One is the police courts building site on 6th, the other is the Page Belcher site on 3rd.  I've always thought if and when we need another hotel by the convention center that the Page Belcher site would be the logical place to put it as it sits between the convention center and BOK Center and helps to activate 3rd as a link to the rest of downtown.  The article mentions the GSA lease expires in 2024 so nothing would likely happen until then, which is about when we would probably need another hotel there anyway.  

I prefer this plan for Page Belcher from a previous version with a convention hotel on the west end and mixed-use on the east with a park/plaza fronting Denver:
« Last Edit: January 07, 2019, 11:15:07 pm by SXSW » Logged

 
DTowner
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« Reply #6 on: January 08, 2019, 05:06:43 pm »

The Cox Business Center is being renovated with the old arena being converted to ballroom/event space.  However, with OKC building a new convention center, it is likely the Cox will need further expansion in the near future.  But tearing down the aLoft and other buildings makes no sense, with the exception being the Page Belcher building - but that involves a lot of hurdles like approving, funding and building a new federal courthouse.  There are still two surface parking lots directly across from the BOK Center, how about we start there with some development before tearing down existing buildings.
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swake
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« Reply #7 on: January 08, 2019, 05:18:49 pm »

I believe the new OKC convention center will have about 100,000 sf more space than what we have today. If we need more convention space to compete with that and other cities, what about going "underground"? By underground I mean in the space of the parking level (that is actually ground level) under the civic center plaza today? That's an existing space that goes all the way to Denver under 5th Street and under the city police building. Enclose that area and convert it to convention space. it's already linked to the convention center. Run 5th Street and the convention center drive over the space. 5th is already elevated there to the aLoft.
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DowntownDan
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« Reply #8 on: January 08, 2019, 05:49:04 pm »

I doubt the a-loft goes but I can see the police building going away. It's hideous and the jail expansion wasn't super extensive. I think the county is moving across the street to the old Community Care building. It's a big building that can probably handle the municipal courts too.

I would really like to see the Page Belcher site redeveloped, but I don't see it happening for decades, if ever. We've supposedly been on a replacement list for decades already. I'd be curious where the federal courts would move. I'd love to see expansion of the federal building, where the bankruptcy courts are currently, but space looks limited.
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SXSW
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« Reply #9 on: January 09, 2019, 12:07:04 am »

There hasn’t been the political will to replace Page Belcher until now when that real estate is now much more valuable.  I imagine it gets replaced once the GSA lease expires but agree it will probably be another decade before we see its replacement built and the existing building demolished.  Maybe at that point we will need a high rise convention hotel that can go on that site.

As for future convention center expansion why not demo the civic center garage and build the addition there?  A replacement garage could be built at 3rd & Houston or in another location.  Then the convention center is entirely contained within its existing footprint with a convention hotel directly between it and the BOK Center.
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Oil Capital
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« Reply #10 on: January 09, 2019, 10:45:45 am »

There hasn’t been the political will to replace Page Belcher until now when that real estate is now much more valuable.  I imagine it gets replaced once the GSA lease expires but agree it will probably be another decade before we see its replacement built and the existing building demolished.  Maybe at that point we will need a high rise convention hotel that can go on that site.

As for future convention center expansion why not demo the civic center garage and build the addition there?  A replacement garage could be built at 3rd & Houston or in another location.  Then the convention center is entirely contained within its existing footprint with a convention hotel directly between it and the BOK Center.

I had the exact same question.  Expanding the convention center in the current garage space seems like a better solution in many ways.
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Laramie
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« Reply #11 on: January 09, 2019, 11:24:40 am »

Here are some bits & pieces on Oklahoma City's convention center & Omni convention center hotel complex:

I believe the new OKC convention center will have about 100,000 sf more space than what we have today. If we need more convention space to compete with that and other cities, what about going "underground"? By underground I mean in the space of the parking level (that is actually ground level) under the civic center plaza today? That's an existing space that goes all the way to Denver under 5th Street and under the city police building. Enclose that area and convert it to convention space. it's already linked to the convention center. Run 5th Street and the convention center drive over the space. 5th is already elevated there to the aLoft.



                                                           Oklahoma City Convention Center
                                                                   200,000-square-foot exhibit hall on the ground floor, divisible into four spaces
                                                                     30,000-square-foot ballroom, with a 10,000-square-foot pre-function space and a 4,000-square-foot balcony
                                                                     45,000 square feet of meeting space, which can be configured in up to 27 rooms.

                                                           Omni Convention Center Hotel
                                                                    605 guest rooms
                                                                50,000 square feet of ballroom and meeting space.

                                                                                                 Fairfield Inn & Suites
                                                                                                        133 guest rooms    

Oklahoma City Convention Center Garage
                                                                                                        865 spaces.
                                                                                                        435-foot-long enclosed skyway is to connect the garage to the convention center.
                                                                                                        500 surface parking on the convention center complex
      

« Last Edit: January 09, 2019, 11:59:33 am by Laramie » Logged

“Think for yourself and let others enjoy the privilege of doing so too.” ― Voltaire
Laramie
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« Reply #12 on: January 09, 2019, 11:29:39 am »

Urge Tulsa voters to get on board with the new arena district master plan, the competition from cities like Fort Worth, Oklahoma City, Nashville and Kansas City will be fierce--they possess 600-750 guest rooms.  Think big, don't settle from the lower end 400 room hotel; you will need at least 600 rooms.  
« Last Edit: January 09, 2019, 11:39:51 am by Laramie » Logged

“Think for yourself and let others enjoy the privilege of doing so too.” ― Voltaire
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