Wish list for downtown...

[rdj]

This whole discussion started with me trying to understand what the "Devon miracle" was.

I don't think that CLR decided to move to OKC just because Devon decided to build a new HQ building and some downtown real estate was freed up, if that's what the point was....

Obviously, we may never know what CLR would have done without Devon building their tower.  BUT, having an existing single tenant class A space that was basically move in ready for an oil & gas tenant sure does help make a decision.  I was told Tulsa could not offer a space similar to what OKC offered and as a result was quickly out of the running.

Just looked at their investor profile and Sandridge's total employees are 2,100.  Not sure what the exact numbers are in downtown OKC at this time.

I think the clown's point is simply how much one company can have impact on the development of a downtown.  The development of Devon tower has created a much greater impact than just a new shiny skyscraper to stare at, its created positive momentum throughout downtown.  I'd love to see a similar impact be made by one of our local corporate giants (H&P maybe??).

[AquaMan]

Major distraction guys. You're both right. Its no miracle but its good for OKC and would have been good for us.

[Jeff P]

To attempt to get this back on track, here are my wishes:

1. Would love the big PAC parking lot bound by 2nd, 3rd, Cincinnati and Detroit be developed into something... anything... that logically connects the CBD to Blue Dome.  Walking from the BOK Tower/Hyatt/City Hall area down to Blue Dome is always a little less nice when you reach the barren wasteland of that parking lot.  Heck, even a new streetscape would be great, but ideally that whole thing could be developed into some kind of cool greenspace connector between the CBD and Blue Dome.  You could still incorporate the parking, but just give people something interesting to look at as they make their way down to Blue Dome.

2. On a similar note, I would love to see the south side of 2nd Street overhauled in between the BOK Center and the Blue Dome.  I know there's been lots of talk about making 3rd of 5th street the main connector from that area to Blue Dome, but 2nd Street is the way that most people take. Our main convention hotel is on 2nd street and it's a straight shot from the BOK to Blue Dome.  Thus, after any event at the BOK, there are thousands of people streaming east down 2nd Street.  So let's make a really nice walk instead of what it is now, which is... less than desirable.

As for the rest of my "wishes", I think most of them are actually underway.  I'll probably have some more thoughts once all of the stuff that's under construction right now is up and running, but these two things above are my main "wishes" for now.

[rdj]

1. Would love the big PAC parking lot bound by 2nd, 3rd, Cincinnati and Detroit be developed into something... anything... that logically connects the CBD to Blue Dome.  Walking from the BOK Tower/Hyatt/City Hall area down to Blue Dome is always a little less nice when you reach the barren wasteland of that parking lot.  Heck, even a new streetscape would be great, but ideally that whole thing could be developed into some kind of cool greenspace connector between the CBD and Blue Dome.  You could still incorporate the parking, but just give people something interesting to look at as they make their way down to Blue Dome.

I thought they already had plans for structured parking on this lot? 

I always thought this lot made a great venue for DFest.  In fact, I preferred it to the GIANT parking lot in Blue Dome.

Speaking of, that would be pretty damn high on my wish list.  Talk about a super lot that is begging to be developed...

[Jeff P]

I thought they already had plans for structured parking on this lot? 

I always thought this lot made a great venue for DFest.  In fact, I preferred it to the GIANT parking lot in Blue Dome.

Speaking of, that would be pretty damn high on my wish list.  Talk about a super lot that is begging to be developed...

Oh - I didn't know there were any plans.  Would love to hear about them from someone who's in the know.

And - yes - I should have added that as #3.  The giant parking lot in Blue Dome is begging to be developed.  Seems like I read here at some point from Blake that it's pretty unlikely, though... because of the owner of one portion of the lot or something...

[rdj]

Oh - I didn't know there were any plans.  Would love to hear about them from someone who's in the know.

And - yes - I should have added that as #3.  The giant parking lot in Blue Dome is begging to be developed.  Seems like I read here at some point from Blake that it's pretty unlikely, though... because of the owner of one portion of the lot or something...

Yes, the economics at the current ownership's asking price makes the project really tough.  The economics might work if you felt confident in charging a much higher rate for residential than what the market is currently offering and retail lease rates that would approach the highest in the city.  To make those higher rates possible you would need to attract high quality national tenants.  Unfortunately, the current demographics of downtown Tulsa do not meet the criteria of most national tenants or franchises (it's actually laughable what tenants and franchises downtown qualifies for).  From my perspective development of that super block will require a more reasonable sales price and a buyer with significant capital/liquidity combined with a patient developer that would be willing for the lease up period to be longer than a standard investment would allow.  At times you can replace significant capital with creative financing, however, from a national perspective lenders for this type of project have lost most of their creativity.

However, it could happen.  Who knows, maybe Kaiser and crew will get bored once they're done in the Brady Franklin District and saunter over to the Blue Dome.

[SXSW]

The lot between 2nd and 3rd, Cincinnati and Detroit makes the most sense out of any downtown for a park/plaza since it's the link between the CBD and Blue Dome and is perfect for festivals/outdoor concerts.  You could get creative and put the parking underneath it, which could be done easier than other places because of the natural slope of the site. 

[jacobi]

The pac lot seems to me to be a great setting for a new tower.  And a stable for the pony I'm wishing for.

[Oil Capital]

The lot between 2nd and 3rd, Cincinnati and Detroit makes the most sense out of any downtown for a park/plaza since it's the link between the CBD and Blue Dome and is perfect for festivals/outdoor concerts.  You could get creative and put the parking underneath it, which could be done easier than other places because of the natural slope of the site. 

That site was definitely identified for structured parking in one iteration of the downtown master plan some years back.  It does not seem to be specifically identified as such in the current master planhttp://www.cityoftulsa.org/community-programs/planning/downtown-area-master-plan/the-plan.aspx.   There is a reference to "east" and "south" parking buildings in the capital improvement plan portion of the master plan, but they don't seem to identify the exact locations, as far as I can find.

[DTowner]

The lot between 2nd and 3rd, Cincinnati and Detroit makes the most sense out of any downtown for a park/plaza since it's the link between the CBD and Blue Dome and is perfect for festivals/outdoor concerts.  You could get creative and put the parking underneath it, which could be done easier than other places because of the natural slope of the site. 

Now that the giant parking lot outside the front door of the BOK Center is disappearing into Place One, this is my least favorite surface lot in all of downdown.  It's size and ugliness are made worse by the fact that it is nearly surrounding by other surface lots. 

[Kenosha]

Many good ideas here.  I'd like to see a downtown circulator, either as proposed up and down Boulder, between 21st and Riverside and the Brady District, or as a clock/counter circulator between the core and Brady.  Streetcar would be preferable, but some sort of funky alt energy rubber tire vehicles would do for now.

I'd also like to see Detroit, Denver Sixth Street, and Seventh Street to be transformed into true urban boulevards.  As the major ingress points for downtown I think a treatment such as this:



could be transformational for downtown.

Speaking of Detroit Ave.  I see lower Detroit (IDL to 10th) as having perhaps the MOST remaining potential (along with 2nd Street East of Elgin) for redefinement in an urban context.  The street is far too wide, poor on street parking options, and crap sidewalks.  There are some cool buildings there, and plenty of develop-able land.  It could be an awesome retail district.  Excellent regional highway access, no parking requirements, and tons of opportunity. Give the boulevard treatment to Detroit (and Cincinnati South of 10th??) and create a two block wide "boulevard district".  It's safe...close to midtown, close to the churches, great access to Cherry Street and South Boston.  It might result in somebody investing in Gunboat Park on a larger scale as well....

Think about it.

[Red Arrow]

I'd also like to see Detroit, Denver Sixth Street, and Seventh Street to be transformed into true urban boulevards.  As the major ingress points for downtown I think a treatment such as this:

could be transformational for downtown.

Denver is about 6 lanes wide, including the parking on both sides.  That would take care of the center of your picture but the outer lanes wouldn't fit.  Maybe it would scale down OK.

[Kenosha]

Well yes....the example is a two way boulevard, for one, while Detroit is not.  However, if you apply treatment to both Cincy and Detroit, leaving the block in between as the "boulevard", then you have an adapted version of the treatment.  Nevertheless, the such as was meant to imply an adaptation of the example.

[rdj]

Add development of the Gunboat Park to the list.  It is currently the only place, 99% sure, you can live in a single family residence with a lawn and be within the IDL.  

[carltonplace]

Add development of the Gunboat Park to the list.  It is currently the only place, 99% sure, you can live in a single family residence with a lawn and be within the IDL.  

I think you're right, "urban renewal" pretty much cleansed all of the houses in downtown that hadn't been converted to office space.