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Author Topic: Another stab at liquor law reform  (Read 60953 times)
Dspike
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« Reply #525 on: August 22, 2016, 12:08:26 pm »

Worth noting that the website http://www.791vs792.com/ is run by the Retail Liquor Association of Oklahoma that is pushing SQ 791. Glad to see folks here wanting to clarify the differences. Here is a Tulsa World article that talked through some of the differences:

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Then, there is SQ 791, the initiative petition that the RLAO (Retail Liquor Association of Oklahoma) has out. This is where I get dazed and confused.

Both of the questions allow for cold beer and wine to be sold in grocery stores and supercenters, but this one would make sure liquor stores and retail grocery wine stores are 500 feet apart, (so grocery stores could not sell wine if there was already a liquor store selling it 500 feet from them.)

SQ 791 holds on to some of the archaic anti-competitive ways that consumers don’t want. Yes, big corporations are going to sell a ton of beer and wine. That’s what they do because consumers want it. So you can’t have it both ways, you can’t modernize and leave others out.

I buy local every time I get a chance, but there shouldn’t be a law forcing you to do that. So don’t be confused.

http://www.tulsaworld.com/blogs/scene/whattheale/what-the-ale-sq-or-sq-both-deal-with-cold/article_8061f43d-c3c8-5ebe-b438-3750d0618491.html
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« Reply #526 on: August 22, 2016, 12:18:19 pm »

Worth noting that the website http://www.791vs792.com/ is run by the Retail Liquor Association of Oklahoma that is pushing SQ 791. Glad to see folks here wanting to clarify the differences. Here is a Tulsa World article that talked through some of the differences:

http://www.tulsaworld.com/blogs/scene/whattheale/what-the-ale-sq-or-sq-both-deal-with-cold/article_8061f43d-c3c8-5ebe-b438-3750d0618491.html

and the lone comment on that article is from none other than the President of the Retail Liqour Association of Oklahoma.  Harhar.  Here was his comment.

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Where Tom's logic is really flawed is that he fails to point out an even bigger restriction on capitalism and competition contained in SQ 792 that SQ 791 does not have. SQ 792 actually establishes a franchise wholesale distribution system that would mandate retail outlets (liquor stores, wine stores, grocery stores, convenience stores, drug stores, restaurants, bars, etc.) buy from just one supplier. It would allow giant out-of-state corporations to buy controlling interest in an Oklahoma wholesaler and designate themselves the sole supplier of the family of products they represent. This takes the wholesale system from a forced, open competitive capitalistic one to a de facto monopoly. It would be akin to telling Tom that he is welcome to buy his craft beer in Tulsa but only from one giant liquor store and that giant liquor store would be protected by law from any other stores opening or, even if they did, they could not carry any of the same products already assigned to that one giant store. If he was truly concerned about "capitalism and competition," he would have come out against SQ 792 long ago. But, of course, that's not his real concern. His real concern is writing editorials that help his paper make ad revenue from big companies like QuikTrip, Reasor's and Walmart. So he'll happily hide the facts and ignore the effects of SQ 792 because that's what's best for the company that feeds his family and gives him beer money.
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« Reply #527 on: August 24, 2016, 08:46:59 am »


After going back and forth on the issue, it appears the Oklahoma ABLE Commission intends to block Oklahoma breweries from selling full-strength beer by the pint as part of a new state law that goes into effect next week.



OKLAHOMA CITY — Craft brewers can sell strong beer for consumption on the premises beginning Friday, Attorney General Scott Pruitt has ruled.

http://www.tulsaworld.com/homepagelatest/ag-s-opinion-clears-way-for-oklahoma-brewers-to-sell/article_1e2c3257-32df-5633-8ae5-0fe11c51fac1.html
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davideinstein
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« Reply #528 on: August 24, 2016, 03:14:11 pm »

OKLAHOMA CITY — Craft brewers can sell strong beer for consumption on the premises beginning Friday, Attorney General Scott Pruitt has ruled.

http://www.tulsaworld.com/homepagelatest/ag-s-opinion-clears-way-for-oklahoma-brewers-to-sell/article_1e2c3257-32df-5633-8ae5-0fe11c51fac1.html

Cheers to that.
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DTowner
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« Reply #529 on: August 25, 2016, 11:00:19 am »

OKLAHOMA CITY — Craft brewers can sell strong beer for consumption on the premises beginning Friday, Attorney General Scott Pruitt has ruled.

http://www.tulsaworld.com/homepagelatest/ag-s-opinion-clears-way-for-oklahoma-brewers-to-sell/article_1e2c3257-32df-5633-8ae5-0fe11c51fac1.html

A good and correct outcome.  AG Pruitt gets a lot of criticism on this forum, but he deserves a hand for quickly putting this issue to rest.
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« Reply #530 on: August 25, 2016, 11:59:16 am »

A good and correct outcome.  AG Pruitt gets a lot of criticism on this forum, but he deserves a hand for quickly putting this issue to rest.

He deserves the criticism
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cannon_fodder
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« Reply #531 on: August 25, 2016, 01:29:25 pm »

He deserves the criticism

And credit when it doesn't make a stupid mistake. Lets keep the bar low!
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« Reply #532 on: August 25, 2016, 02:02:50 pm »

A good and correct outcome.  AG Pruitt gets a lot of criticism on this forum, but he deserves a hand for quickly putting this issue to rest.


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Conan71
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« Reply #533 on: August 30, 2016, 10:13:27 am »

SQ 791 did not make the Nov. 8 ballot, but SQ 792 did:

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Things got a lot less complicated for cold beer and wine drinkers Monday. The Nov. 8 ballot is final, and State Question 792 will be on it.

If it becomes law, it would allow grocery stores, convenience stores and liquor stores to sell cold regular-strength beer and wine.

There was an initiative petition by the Retail Liquor Association of Oklahoma to put its version of modernizing Oklahoma’s alcohol laws on the ballot as SQ 791. That petition didn’t meet the requirements to get on the ballot.

Backers for SQ 792 are locally and nationally owned grocery and convenience stores, and they have been pushing to get information about the question into the voters’ hands.

“We are really excited. Today at 5 p.m., the ballot for this upcoming election cycle will be finalized, and we know that state question 792 is on the ballot,” said Alex Weintz, spokesperson for SQ 792.

“Voters are going to have a chance for the first time in 60 years to update the state’s very outdated beer and wine laws. If 792 passes, it will mean cold, full-strength beer and wine in grocery, convenience stores and liquor stores. We think that is going to be a huge boost to the economy,” Weintz said.

SQ 792 isn’t perfect, but there is time to deal with some of the questions that have come up during the process. I think taking Oklahoma out of the 3.2 ABW (Alcohol by Weight) beer game is the biggest move we can have moving forward. We won’t even be the last state in the union to get rid of 3.2 if we pass this question, but we are the largest consumer of 3.2 beer and when we are gone, I bet 3.2 goes away nationally.

“When this passes, we know there will still be some questions to answer about alcohol modernization and the law moving forward,” Weintz said. “It will give the legislature the freedom to address those questions, rather than locking them in the old system, our constitution now.”

One good thing that people aren’t probably aware of are the tax rates for beers. Because 3.2 beer is taxed at the lower rate than beers in excess of 3.2, that means right off the bat there will be more revenue for the Oklahoma’s general fund.

Maybe a beer can help move our state out of last place for teachers pay?

http://m.tulsaworld.com/blogs/scene/whattheale/what-the-ale-it-is-official-sq-will-be-the/article_042b894e-468d-5a76-a224-75d0db720094.html?mode=jqm

Interesting note: in New Mexico grocery stores and convenience stores appear to make up the bulk of liquor, wine, and beer retail.  Even in a progressive place like Taos, there are NO liquor stores.  Albertson’s has the best wine, beer, and liquor selection, even high end wines.  If you Google a liquor store in say, Angel Fire, chances are the place is a C-store and gas retailer as well.

There are some mega-retailers like Total Wine in Albuquerque and Rio Rancho, but they don’t seem to be in the smaller towns and cities. 
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cannon_fodder
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« Reply #534 on: August 30, 2016, 11:06:02 am »

SQ 791 did not make the Nov. 8 ballot, but SQ 792 did:

Interesting note: in New Mexico grocery stores and convenience stores appear to make up the bulk of liquor, wine, and beer retail.  Even in a progressive place like Taos, there are NO liquor stores.  Albertson’s has the best wine, beer, and liquor selection, even high end wines.  If you Google a liquor store in say, Angel Fire, chances are the place is a C-store and gas retailer as well.

I'd say that is the norm in most states that have cut into liquor store monopolies. Tulsa has a dozen in the 8 square miles between Sheridan and Peoria, 11th and 31st. 51st Street has one every intersection between Lewis and Mingo. Ini south Tulsa I'd guess more major intersections have a liquor store than do not have a liquor store. If you're not from here, you notice them everywhere. There 840 liquor stores in Oklahoma are registered. In Iowa there are few liquor stores, in all of Des Moines there are maybe a dozen liquor or "wine and spirit" stores. Springfield Missouri has maybe a dozen (mostly one franchise).

 That's why the liquor stores are fighting so hard, without state protection for their business model - it is hard to sustain. You need to bring something to the table a grocery store does not - selection, knowledge, customer service, price. Something. Or competition (the consumer) will shut you down. No one has explained to me what I consider a true State interest in protecting liquor stores.
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Conan71
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« Reply #535 on: August 30, 2016, 11:21:54 am »

I'd say that is the norm in most states that have cut into liquor store monopolies. Tulsa has a dozen in the 8 square miles between Sheridan and Peoria, 11th and 31st. 51st Street has one every intersection between Lewis and Mingo. Ini south Tulsa I'd guess more major intersections have a liquor store than do not have a liquor store. If you're not from here, you notice them everywhere. There 840 liquor stores in Oklahoma are registered. In Iowa there are few liquor stores, in all of Des Moines there are maybe a dozen liquor or "wine and spirit" stores. Springfield Missouri has maybe a dozen (mostly one franchise).

 That's why the liquor stores are fighting so hard, without state protection for their business model - it is hard to sustain. You need to bring something to the table a grocery store does - selection, knowledge, customer service, price. Something. Or competition (the consumer) will shut you down. No one has explained to me what I consider a true State interest in protecting liquor stores.

And here’s why someone like Ranch Acres does not need to worry about competition from Wal-Mart Market around the corner:  Wal-Mart cannot (or will not) afford the shelf space to carry more expensive wines and they will never carry 500 or so different beers or premium spirits.  They want quick turn items not shelf turds that will sit for two or three months.

My experience with grocery store or big box liquor/wine/beer retailers in other states like Texas or Missouri has generally been they might carry up to a $15 bottle of wine and they might carry some of the “craft" beers either owned or distributed by AB InBev or Miller-Coors.  You can find your Bacardi, Jack Daniels, and Smirnoff, but chances are you won’t find premium spirits there.

The system in Missouri works great.  MacAdoodle’s carries many premium items and micro brews the grocers simply cannot or won’t carry and they carry the same lower end or common wine, beer, and spirits and everyone seems to be quite happy with the outcome.  Consumers win in a situation like that.

I can see where some smaller liquor stores with limited selection will end up shutting down, but that is not the market’s fault.  It will be the fault of the store not paying attention to what Reasor’s is carrying and then adapting and adjusting their offerings accordingly. 
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AquaMan
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« Reply #536 on: August 30, 2016, 11:44:38 am »

How will they handle late nite and Sunday sales with this expansion? Reasors is open on Sunday and some grocers are 24 hours. If my favorite brands (not exotic by any means- rum with a pirate on the label, wine with hopping kangaroos and Vodka with polish names) are available when I shop groceries it sure seems to me Ranch Acres will be relegated to elite shoppers much like Petty's.
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dbacksfan 2.0
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« Reply #537 on: August 30, 2016, 11:45:14 am »

SQ 791 did not make the Nov. 8 ballot, but SQ 792 did:

Interesting note: in New Mexico grocery stores and convenience stores appear to make up the bulk of liquor, wine, and beer retail.  Even in a progressive place like Taos, there are NO liquor stores.  Albertson’s has the best wine, beer, and liquor selection, even high end wines.  If you Google a liquor store in say, Angel Fire, chances are the place is a C-store and gas retailer as well.

There are some mega-retailers like Total Wine in Albuquerque and Rio Rancho, but they don’t seem to be in the smaller towns and cities. 

The other advantages NM, AZ, NV and CA have is there is price competition amongst the retailers. Total Wine and BevMo have the best prices, followed by the grocers then Walgreen's and CVS. C-Stores have the highest prices and smallest selection. Where I lived in Phoenix there was an upscale wine and cigar store, but actual liquor stores are almost unicorn status. I would love OK get into the 21st century in this respect, but I know there are too many ultra conservatives that think children should not see these evil things in the grocery store.
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dbacksfan 2.0
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« Reply #538 on: August 30, 2016, 11:48:59 am »

How will they handle late nite and Sunday sales with this expansion? Reasors is open on Sunday and some grocers are 24 hours. If my favorite brands (not exotic by any means- rum with a pirate on the label, wine with hopping kangaroos and Vodka with polish names) are available when I shop groceries it sure seems to me Ranch Acres will be relegated to elite shoppers much like Petty's.

The way AZ, NV, and CA handle it is that they can sell at any time, but there is a mandatory 12:00 AM Sunday morning to 10:00 AM Sunday morning thet can't sell.
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AquaMan
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« Reply #539 on: August 30, 2016, 11:51:46 am »

One of the liquor store owners here intimated to me that there would be late night and Sunday sales. He may have been in error. It would surprise me knowing the nature of our "blue" laws that the rural communities would allow that. We don't even sell cars on Sunday's.
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