Your Federal Government Shutdown Thread

[Conan71]

We can keep going back and forth if you like. My point is that with the present tax code, that's simply not possible, and there's no political will for a significant rewrite.

I get what you're saying, and if it had a snowball's chance in hell of actually playing out that way, I'd agree with you. I think I've mentioned many times before that I'd be perfectly happy going back to Clinton rates with some adjustments for inflation. That would mean everybody who pays tax would pay more than 1% extra.

What you keep missing is that if everyone gives a nominal amount, no one sacrifices more than anyone else.  That's true "economic justice".

You are trying to extrapolate too much out of the conversation.

[nathanm]

What you keep missing is that if everyone gives a nominal amount, no one sacrifices more than anyone else.  That's true "economic justice".

You are trying to extrapolate too much out of the conversation.

Talk to me about justice when certain forms of income don't get preferential treatment. Until then, the word is meaningless when it comes to the tax code. We can keep discussing this plate of beans, but it's so far divorced from reality that it's pretty much pointless.

[Red Arrow]

Defining income to be taxed has always been a problem.

I am expecting to be taxed any year now on the perquisite that I work in a heated/air conditioned office. (Yes, heated in the winter and air conditioned in the summer.)  Is the heat/ac that I receive worth more than the heat/ac that a co-worker who is paid less receives?  If not, am I getting a bargain.  What if my co-worker can't afford the tax?  What about the workers that are in the non-airconditioned portion of the building.

I know this is an exaggeration.  Where do you want to draw the line?

[guido911]

I am expecting to be taxed any year now on the perquisite that I work in a heated/air conditioned office. (Yes, heated in the winter and air conditioned in the summer.)  Is the heat/ac that I receive worth more than the heat/ac that a co-worker who is paid less receives?  If not, am I getting a bargain.  What if my co-worker can't afford the tax?  What about the workers that are in the non-airconditioned portion of the building.

That's for giving some one a new idea Red. 

[Red Arrow]

That's for giving some one a new idea Red.  

With all the things the IRS considers "income", I find it highly unlikely they haven't already thought of it.

 

Edit: spelling corrections

[Gaspar]

Talk to me about justice when certain forms of income don't get preferential treatment. Until then, the word is meaningless when it comes to the tax code. We can keep discussing this plate of beans, but it's so far divorced from reality that it's pretty much pointless.

Liberals and Conservatives cannot communicate using that lexicon.  The term "Justice" has s definition that is unique to each ideology.

Liberal Justice- is providing for the unfortunate using capital taken from the fortunate.  It is based on a belief that life is a lottery, and those with means have amassed those means by luck or by taking advantage of others.  Therefore, they owe a capital debt to society, and have a responsibility to right the injustice caused by their success.  Success and property are viewed as finite, and ownership is granted by government.  Justice is the voice of the majority.

Conservative Justice- recognizes that wealth is built through hard work, innovation, and skill.  Justice is simply a level playing ground where each able bodied person can achieve based on skills, work ethic, and creativity.   The poor can become rich, and the rich can become poor and all have the freedom to succeed or fail.  I have no right to your property and you have no right to mine.

[Teatownclown]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y4Z2csf30PY&feature=player_embedded[/youtube]

No child shall go without food while billionaires feast!

[RecycleMichael]

Liberals and Conservatives cannot communicate using that lexicon.  The term "Justice" has s definition that is unique to each ideology.

Liberal Justice- is providing for the unfortunate using capital taken from the fortunate.  It is based on a belief that life is a lottery, and those with means have amassed those means by luck or by taking advantage of others.  Therefore, they owe a capital debt to society, and have a responsibility to right the injustice caused by their success.  Success and property are viewed as finite, and ownership is granted by government.  Justice is the voice of the majority.

Conservative Justice- recognizes that wealth is built through hard work, innovation, and skill.  Justice is simply a level playing ground where each able bodied person can achieve based on skills, work ethic, and creativity.   The poor can become rich, and the rich can become poor and all have the freedom to succeed or fail.  I have no right to your property and you have no right to mine.

I thinks you might be a little mistaken. Why do you feel compelled to label and then identify what the label means?

Liberal definition by Dictionary.com...

 lib·er·al   /ˈlɪbərəl, ˈlɪbrəl/  Show Spelled
[lib-er-uhl, lib-ruhl]  Show IPA
 
–adjective
1. favorable to progress or reform, as in political or religious affairs.
2. ( often initial capital letter ) noting or pertaining to a political party advocating measures of progressive political reform.
3. of, pertaining to, based on, or advocating liberalism.
4. favorable to or in accord with concepts of maximum individual freedom possible, especially as guaranteed by law and secured by governmental protection of civil liberties.
5. favoring or permitting freedom of action, especially with respect to matters of personal belief or expression: a liberal policy toward dissident artists and writers.
6. of or pertaining to representational forms of government rather than aristocracies and monarchies.
7. free from prejudice or bigotry; tolerant: a liberal attitude toward foreigners.
8. open-minded or tolerant, especially free of or not bound by traditional or conventional ideas, values, etc.
9. characterized by generosity and willingness to give in large amounts: a liberal donor.
10. given freely or abundantly; generous: a liberal donation.
11. not strict or rigorous; free; not literal: a liberal interpretation of a rule.
12. of, pertaining to, or based on the liberal arts.
13. of, pertaining to, or befitting a freeman.


Read number 8 over and over...

[Gaspar]

I thinks you might be a little mistaken. Why do you feel compelled to label and then identify what the label means?

Liberal definition by Dictionary.com...

 lib·er·al   /ˈlɪbərəl, ˈlɪbrəl/  Show Spelled
[lib-er-uhl, lib-ruhl]  Show IPA
 
–adjective
1. favorable to progress or reform, as in political or religious affairs.
2. ( often initial capital letter ) noting or pertaining to a political party advocating measures of progressive political reform.
3. of, pertaining to, based on, or advocating liberalism.
4. favorable to or in accord with concepts of maximum individual freedom possible, especially as guaranteed by law and secured by governmental protection of civil liberties.
5. favoring or permitting freedom of action, especially with respect to matters of personal belief or expression: a liberal policy toward dissident artists and writers.
6. of or pertaining to representational forms of government rather than aristocracies and monarchies.
7. free from prejudice or bigotry; tolerant: a liberal attitude toward foreigners.
8. open-minded or tolerant, especially free of or not bound by traditional or conventional ideas, values, etc.
9. characterized by generosity and willingness to give in large amounts: a liberal donor.
10. given freely or abundantly; generous: a liberal donation.
11. not strict or rigorous; free; not literal: a liberal interpretation of a rule.
12. of, pertaining to, or based on the liberal arts.
13. of, pertaining to, or befitting a freeman.


Read number 8 over and over...

How would you define social/economic justice?

[Gaspar]

Oh Good Lord!  I just got done watching the president's speech.  Nothing serious about it.  I'm happy he seems willing to make some cuts but this speech was supposed to be specifics and ended up being more generalization.

The one thing that did come out of it was a new term: “spending reductions in the tax code" is the new term for tax increases.  What is it with generating new vocabulary for things that you don't want to address head on?

I guess the best part of the speech was all of the folks that fell asleep.  ABC was good enough to put a camera on one of them.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EKx8szuzioI[/youtube]

Jumpin Joe, you never fail to deliver.

[guido911]

Oh Good Lord!  I just got done watching the president's speech.  Nothing serious about it.  I'm happy he seems willing to make some cuts but this speech was supposed to be specifics and ended up being more generalization.

The one thing that did come out of it was a new term: “spending reductions in the tax code" is the new term for tax increases.  What is it with generating new vocabulary for things that you don't want to address head on?

I guess the best part of the speech was all of the folks that fell asleep.  ABC was good enough to put a camera on one of them.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EKx8szuzioI[/youtube]

Jumpin Joe, you never fail to deliver.

Posted this link just because of the article's title.

http://hotair.com/archives/2011/04/13/video-biden-taking-obamas-deficit-speech-about-as-seriously-as-the-rest-of-us/

[RecycleMichael]

How would you define social/economic justice?

Why?

I didn't mention social/economic justice in my response.

How about you define mid century intellectualism?

[nathanm]

Defining income to be taxed has always been a problem.

Why is it that income from investments is taxed at a lesser rate than income from labor?

Gaspar, it's really too bad that you invent your own meanings for words in some attempt to quell the cognitive dissonance going on in your head. Why should wealthy people's money be taxed less than poor people's money? Surely even you see a problem there..

[guido911]

I thought the reason CGT were lower was to encourage investment. If the CGT rate was the same as the income tax, why would anyone want to invest?

[nathanm]

I thought the reason CGT were lower was to encourage investment. If the CGT rate was the same as the income tax, why would anyone want to invest?

Why wouldn't they? What else are they going to do with their money, sit on it? You make me laugh sometimes.