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August 23, 2019, 05:13:42 pm
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Author Topic: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?  (Read 92575 times)
OSU
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« Reply #60 on: March 06, 2011, 08:24:02 pm »

And the Biltmore area






I would like to live here.
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« Reply #61 on: March 07, 2011, 07:32:20 am »

 Most of those buildings appear to be horrid at street level.  The HP site would be a great area to enhance the shopping/dining draw of Utica Square.  Sure put a hotel and or condos above the first and second floors, but imo, you could greatly enhance the entire area by having more businesses/retail/dining along 21st, with a wide loggia to walk under, lots of windows and various business entrances, outdoor seating with the dining, etc. 

What the building above looks like is not all that important.  Its where the building meets the sidewalk, thats the most important part.  Those are the kinds of pictures I like to see.
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« Reply #62 on: March 07, 2011, 08:30:36 am »

Fun with MS Paint...

The pink box is where the hotel/condo tower would be (where the H&P building once stood) facing the existing drive into the parking garage and plaza at 21st & Utica.  The west side of the property would be developed into houses at the same density as the surrounding Swan Lake neighborhood with strict design guidelines i.e. no front-facing garages, similar setbacks/massing/materials, etc.  There would be new houses built on 19th, and where 20th would be extended east, along a new street (Trenton) that would connect 19th to 21st, and larger lots along 21st west of the hotel.  The hotel itself would have a restaurant facing 21st with outdoor seating.

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« Reply #63 on: March 07, 2011, 09:09:09 am »

Got to step the density down between the larger building site and the existing neighborhood.  I would develop out the street as you provide but line it with townhomes, even facing the neighborhood and the park.  I know some in Swan Lake would balk but...townhomes aren't inherently incompatible across the street from single family homes.
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« Reply #64 on: March 07, 2011, 09:25:41 am »

Got to step the density down between the larger building site and the existing neighborhood.  I would develop out the street as you provide but line it with townhomes, even facing the neighborhood and the park.  I know some in Swan Lake would balk but...townhomes aren't inherently incompatible across the street from single family homes.

Maybe townhomes down 19th by the parking garage, or on the east side of "Trenton" adjacent to the parking garage and tower.  Single family homes elsewhere on similar-sized lots as the rest of the neighborhood.  The vocal Swan Lake neighborhood would also not balk as much about a possible 15+ story tower if the rest of the development is mostly houses providing a buffer for the historic district, the boundaries of which are St. Louis and 19th.  
« Last Edit: March 07, 2011, 09:27:39 am by SXSW » Logged

 
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« Reply #65 on: March 07, 2011, 12:20:24 pm »


What the building above looks like is not all that important.  Its where the building meets the sidewalk, thats the most important part.  Those are the kinds of pictures I like to see.

The third one from Tempe is still under consrtuction, but I believe that it will have business on the ground floors since it is just off of Mill Avenue.

The one from downtown Phoenix has shops and such on the ground floor, and I believe the the first one from the Biltmore area does as well. I will try to get some follow shots of those this weekend.
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« Reply #66 on: March 07, 2011, 02:42:54 pm »

That lot on Norfolk just north of 15th was occupied by a derelict house.  The dentist next door had a lot of trouble with transients due to that home.  I can't speak for the design, but I think having a dense development there is at least a good first step.  It will be interesting to see if they try and tie into the Midland Valley trail that runs to the north of that lot.

Some of the powers that be within the Helmerich family would love to see the lot on 21st be developed into a hotel on the level of a Ritz Carlton.  However, it is my understanding that Mr Helmerich has no desire to do so, thus it won't get done.  He also won't allow for any changes at Utica Square.  He personally supervises the trimming of trees on the property, any of the leasehold improvements and what stores they allow in.  For example, he refused to renew Brooks Brothers lease because he didn't think it was a strong enough tenant.  They also wouldn't go after the Apple Store prior to it locating within Woodland Hills Mall.  That one made my blood boil.
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« Reply #67 on: March 07, 2011, 03:12:15 pm »

So does that mean there is no chance of a tower there?
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« Reply #68 on: March 07, 2011, 03:28:15 pm »

So does that mean there is no chance of a tower there?


I don't think as long as Mr Helmerich is alive.
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« Reply #69 on: March 07, 2011, 03:43:23 pm »

I don't think as long as Mr Helmerich is alive.

Crap...I wonder why?
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« Reply #70 on: March 07, 2011, 03:52:19 pm »

That lot on Norfolk just north of 15th was occupied by a derelict house.  The dentist next door had a lot of trouble with transients due to that home.  I can't speak for the design, but I think having a dense development there is at least a good first step.  It will be interesting to see if they try and tie into the Midland Valley trail that runs to the north of that lot.

Some of the powers that be within the Helmerich family would love to see the lot on 21st be developed into a hotel on the level of a Ritz Carlton.  However, it is my understanding that Mr Helmerich has no desire to do so, thus it won't get done.  He also won't allow for any changes at Utica Square.  He personally supervises the trimming of trees on the property, any of the leasehold improvements and what stores they allow in.  For example, he refused to renew Brooks Brothers lease because he didn't think it was a strong enough tenant.  They also wouldn't go after the Apple Store prior to it locating within Woodland Hills Mall.  That one made my blood boil.

Interesting insights.  I've been wondering why Utica doesn't pursue a different mix of tenants.  On a locavore level, a lot of the choices are very good, but from a big business sense . . . well, I've wondered for awhile now why there isn't a Whole Foods in there (and why Petty's is still around); or why there isn't another luxury department store (Bloomingdales, for instance), or why there's a Med X on the property.  
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« Reply #71 on: March 07, 2011, 08:40:00 pm »

I don't think as long as Mr Helmerich is alive.

Walt?  Utica Square is his baby, as he was the one who bought the shopping center in 1964.  Hans (his son and the H&P CEO) would likely be the one to upgrade Utica Square and redevelop the property at 21st & Utica. 
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« Reply #72 on: March 07, 2011, 10:40:19 pm »

Walt has made and shepherded a good fortune, by being hands-on but he's a dinosaur in his thinking.
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« Reply #73 on: March 07, 2011, 11:11:16 pm »

By the way, not every CVS looks the same Wink


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« Reply #74 on: March 08, 2011, 09:12:42 am »

Interesting insights.  I've been wondering why Utica doesn't pursue a different mix of tenants.  On a locavore level, a lot of the choices are very good, but from a big business sense . . . well, I've wondered for awhile now why there isn't a Whole Foods in there (and why Petty's is still around); or why there isn't another luxury department store (Bloomingdales, for instance), or why there's a Med X on the property.  

I don't see another department store going in as long as Saks and Miss Jackson's are there.  But I could see REI, West Elm and Crate & Barrel, to name a few.  It would take some reconfiguring of the Square though.  We have discussed this before but the "edges" could be better defined, for instance the SE corner of 21st & Utica could be redeveloped to come up to the sidewalk with a mix of stores where the F&M Bank/Bruce G Weber and parking lot are located north of Saks.  The same could be said for the NE corner (where Cache and Valley Nat'l Bank are at 21st & Yorktown) and especially the SE corner which is the last "open" area in the shopping center and would be perfect for a larger-format store like REI and/or Crate & Barrel.

While Utica Square is still very nice and well-maintained, there are some areas where it could improve.  The examples above and things like the crosswalks, where the paint has faded and probably should be replaced by brick pavers, are areas that would make it much better.  It's already one of Tulsa's top attractions and a big reason the neighborhoods around it are the most desirable (and expensive) in the city.
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