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June 02, 2020, 06:31:08 am
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Author Topic: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?  (Read 121174 times)
TulsaGoldenHurriCAN
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« Reply #450 on: March 03, 2020, 12:27:44 pm »

I don't know about Cherry Street proper but Midtown, specifically Utica Square, needs a hotel.  I'm surprised there isn't one by Hillcrest either.  There is The Campbell near TU.

The Maple is a 7 story, 109 room boutique hotel proposed by Coury Hospitality at 21st & Boston which could somewhat fill that void and also would be the closest hotel to the Gathering Place.  Not sure its current status though.

https://www.couryhospitality.com/portfolio/the-maple/

Even though it might've changed concepts, the plans from Coury go all the way back to 2001. Plans have popped up for that a number of times over the years on this board; like here: http://www.tulsanow.org/forum/index.php?topic=11576.0 all the way back in 2008 saying it was shelved, and then again more recently here: http://www.tulsanow.org/forum/index.php?topic=4167.0. I doubt it is happening anytime soon.
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« Reply #451 on: March 03, 2020, 02:24:16 pm »

Even though it might've changed concepts, the plans from Coury go all the way back to 2001. Plans have popped up for that a number of times over the years on this board; like here: http://www.tulsanow.org/forum/index.php?topic=11576.0 all the way back in 2008 saying it was shelved, and then again more recently here: http://www.tulsanow.org/forum/index.php?topic=4167.0. I doubt it is happening anytime soon.

Iím aware of the history of this site.  Portofino Tower wouldíve been a nice addition.  A hotel here, especially a nice-looking 7 story boutique hotel with a rooftop bar, seems like a good plan and Coury does own the property.  But he has owned it since they tore down the Akdar Shrine and itís still an empty lot so obviously not super motivated.  Coury also developed the Tudor townhomes on 22nd St behind this site.
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DTowner
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« Reply #452 on: March 03, 2020, 03:52:37 pm »

With the Ambassador at 13th & Main, I donít really see why Cherry St. needs or could support a separate hotel.  I can potentially see the need near Utica Sq./St. John/Hillcrest.  Even then, I would rather see something more like the Mayo Hotel that is 1/2 hotel and 1/2 apartments or condos.   More boutique hotels near downtown just eat into the demand we need to support another large convention size hotel downtown.
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DowntownDan
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« Reply #453 on: March 03, 2020, 04:31:04 pm »

There are hotels underneath an exit ramp at 169 and 91st. Why people would rather stay there than Cherry Street or Utica Square is beyond me.
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swake
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« Reply #454 on: March 03, 2020, 04:36:25 pm »

There are hotels underneath an exit ramp at 169 and 91st. Why people would rather stay there than Cherry Street or Utica Square is beyond me.

Those are there for the hospitals in the area.
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TulsaGoldenHurriCAN
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« Reply #455 on: March 04, 2020, 11:49:37 am »

With the Ambassador at 13th & Main, I donít really see why Cherry St. needs or could support a separate hotel.  I can potentially see the need near Utica Sq./St. John/Hillcrest.  Even then, I would rather see something more like the Mayo Hotel that is 1/2 hotel and 1/2 apartments or condos.   More boutique hotels near downtown just eat into the demand we need to support another large convention size hotel downtown.

You'd rather have one huge corporation getting revenue from a 1,000 room hotel rather than several smaller (maybe boutique) hotels focused in the core urban districts? 13th and Main wouldn't replicate the experience of staying on Cherry Street. It's not an especially lively spot. Utica Square could for sure use a medium hotel with rooms serving the shopping center and the hospitals.

I don't see Tulsa ever being a huge convention place and don't think it is smart to try to be that when dozens of larger cities already have that taken care of. It is wasteful long term for the country for every city to aim for such things. Sort of like winning the Olympics bids, the hoops Tulsa would have to go through to host some of the big conventions is not guaranteed to pay off. Tulsa should aim for mid sized, quaint and different sort of place. Embrace being a peculiar, slower paced town with some big amenities. It'll never be Denver/ATL/Dallas or even remotely close. Those places will beat Tulsa for big conventions every time and it'll probably get tougher over time, even if Tulsa somehow got a 1000 room hotel in DT.

What does Tulsa have? Low traffic, accessible places and a bunch of quaint old neighborhoods and mini main streets that weren't devastated by "progress". Boutique hotels in Cherry Street, Brookside and Utica Square would add a needed element to those areas.
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« Reply #456 on: March 04, 2020, 12:14:32 pm »

You'd rather have one huge corporation getting revenue from a 1,000 room hotel rather than several smaller (maybe boutique) hotels focused in the core urban districts? 13th and Main wouldn't replicate the experience of staying on Cherry Street. It's not an especially lively spot. Utica Square could for sure use a medium hotel with rooms serving the shopping center and the hospitals.

I don't see Tulsa ever being a huge convention place and don't think it is smart to try to be that when dozens of larger cities already have that taken care of. It is wasteful long term for the country for every city to aim for such things. Sort of like winning the Olympics bids, the hoops Tulsa would have to go through to host some of the big conventions is not guaranteed to pay off. Tulsa should aim for mid sized, quaint and different sort of place.

Short answer - yes.  Tulsa will never compete with Las Vegas or major cities for the top tier convention business, be we currently woefully underperform our competitor cities in convention business.  One of the main reasons we miss out is the lack of another large convention sized hotel downtown (the Hyatt and Double Tree no longer fit the needs of many modern conventions).  Convention planners do not want guests spread out over 10 boutique hotels, they want them all under one roof.  Boutique hotels may serve visitors to Tulsa, but they donít draw visitors to Tulsa.  Conventions do.  We are currently spending a lot of Vision money on the convention center, we need to see that our investment pays off.

I agreed that a hotel in the Utica Sq. area would be a great addition.  Even then, however, I think the need is limited as I just donít see a huge demand for people wanting to set up in a hotel next to Utica Sq. - especially as it continues to lose its uniqueness.  The hospitals also likely create some demand, although whatever demand there is currently is getting met by some other means.

As for a boutique hotel on Cherry St., there is already a supply of Airbnbs in the area that serves the visitors who want to stay right in that area.  I would much rather see the limited remaining space available on Cherry St. be used for expanded office and retail.

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« Reply #457 on: March 04, 2020, 01:21:47 pm »

Short answer - yes.  Tulsa will never compete with Las Vegas or major cities for the top tier convention business, be we currently woefully underperform our competitor cities in convention business.  One of the main reasons we miss out is the lack of another large convention sized hotel downtown (the Hyatt and Double Tree no longer fit the needs of many modern conventions).  Convention planners do not want guests spread out over 10 boutique hotels, they want them all under one roof.  Boutique hotels may serve visitors to Tulsa, but they donít draw visitors to Tulsa.  Conventions do.  We are currently spending a lot of Vision money on the convention center, we need to see that our investment pays off.

I agreed that a hotel in the Utica Sq. area would be a great addition.  Even then, however, I think the need is limited as I just donít see a huge demand for people wanting to set up in a hotel next to Utica Sq. - especially as it continues to lose its uniqueness.  The hospitals also likely create some demand, although whatever demand there is currently is getting met by some other means.

As for a boutique hotel on Cherry St., there is already a supply of Airbnbs in the area that serves the visitors who want to stay right in that area.  I would much rather see the limited remaining space available on Cherry St. be used for expanded office and retail.

There is a large convention hotel that is part of the Arena District Master Plan, so it's on the radar of city leaders.  I personally think the Page Belcher site is the best spot for this but that site may not be available for awhile.

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« Reply #458 on: March 04, 2020, 04:09:26 pm »

There is a large convention hotel that is part of the Arena District Master Plan, so it's on the radar of city leaders.  I personally think the Page Belcher site is the best spot for this but that site may not be available for awhile.



My expectation is that the Arena Master Plan will collect more dust on a shelf than dirt is ever turned under its guidance.
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ComeOnBenjals
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« Reply #459 on: April 10, 2020, 10:38:44 am »

Some updated pictures from the 1515 lofts on Cherry St.  They really change the dynamic of the area... but I think it's going to work well. It appears that it's topped out.



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« Reply #460 on: April 12, 2020, 07:39:40 pm »

Agree, I think itís a positive but still taking some getting used to.  Similar to the condos on Main downtown.  I still think the best place for multi-level density on Cherry Street is along 15th at Lincoln Plaza. 
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Laramie
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« Reply #461 on: April 13, 2020, 01:04:43 pm »

There is a large convention hotel that is part of the Arena District Master Plan, so it's on the radar of city leaders.  I personally think the Page Belcher site is the best spot for this but that site may not be available for awhile.



Tulsa definitely could use an anchor convention center hotel with nothing less than 500 rooms.  The competition will become tough for Tulsa to compete with neighboring OKC just 91 miles down the turnpike where a 605 room, $241 million Omni is under construction to anchor the new $288 million OKC convention center with a garage and an adjoining $132 million Scissortail downtown park.

You have a 500 room downtown Hyatt Regency close to your convention center that would be ideal for spillover conventions to support a new downtown convention center hotel; get Hyatt to build that hotel--think of the advantages it would give Tulsa to compete with Oklahoma City.

A 500 to 600 room reputable band hotel next to the Tulsa convention center will provide enough rooms to compete for Tier II & III type conventions.   Oklahoma City had to subsidize their new Omni with $85.5 million and build an adjacent $25 million 1,100 space convention center garage to support the convention center.  The OKC Cox Convention Center will continue to be used as a support back up because it has 978 covered parking underneath the (Old Myriad) current Cox Convention Center in OKC and a 14,000-seat arena inside the Cox Center as well as an 18,203-seat NBA venue.  OKC is exploring the bidding process for the Republican Party National Convention:

Quote
MIKE: We have been approached by the RNC to consider bidding to host their annual convention. And we'll probably look at it for 2024 or 2028. But political conventions are not nearly as attractive for cities as they used to be.

Republican National Convention asks Oklahoma City to bid on hosting future event:  https://oklahoman.com/article/5655601/republican-national-convention-asks-oklahoma-city-to-bid-on-hosting-future-event

Tulsa could definitely use a new anchor hotel to support your Convention Center District.  You want a large enough anchor hotel since you already have enough reputable downtown hotels to support the spillover for major conventions.

The more Tulsa & Oklahoma City compete against each other, the better each city strives to become.

 
« Last Edit: April 13, 2020, 01:14:46 pm by Laramie » Logged

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« Reply #462 on: April 13, 2020, 07:12:23 pm »

Tulsa definitely could use an anchor convention center hotel with nothing less than 500 rooms.  The competition will become tough for Tulsa to compete with neighboring OKC just 91 miles down the turnpike where a 605 room, $241 million Omni is under construction to anchor the new $288 million OKC convention center with a garage and an adjoining $132 million Scissortail downtown park.

You have a 500 room downtown Hyatt Regency close to your convention center that would be ideal for spillover conventions to support a new downtown convention center hotel; get Hyatt to build that hotel--think of the advantages it would give Tulsa to compete with Oklahoma City.

A 500 to 600 room reputable band hotel next to the Tulsa convention center will provide enough rooms to compete for Tier II & III type conventions.   Oklahoma City had to subsidize their new Omni with $85.5 million and build an adjacent $25 million 1,100 space convention center garage to support the convention center.  The OKC Cox Convention Center will continue to be used as a support back up because it has 978 covered parking underneath the (Old Myriad) current Cox Convention Center in OKC and a 14,000-seat arena inside the Cox Center as well as an 18,203-seat NBA venue.  OKC is exploring the bidding process for the Republican Party National Convention:

Republican National Convention asks Oklahoma City to bid on hosting future event:  https://oklahoman.com/article/5655601/republican-national-convention-asks-oklahoma-city-to-bid-on-hosting-future-event

Tulsa could definitely use a new anchor hotel to support your Convention Center District.  You want a large enough anchor hotel since you already have enough reputable downtown hotels to support the spillover for major conventions.

The more Tulsa & Oklahoma City compete against each other, the better each city strives to become.

 

I think a better tack would be to really focus on tourism for Tulsa. Building that aspect up first, then go for the big hotel.  If you did the tourism part right, a private entity would build a big hotel to cater to the tourism aspect and the conventions. This is of course assuming that Tourism and Conventions are a thing after all this.
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« Reply #463 on: April 13, 2020, 08:40:42 pm »

I think a better tack would be to really focus on tourism for Tulsa. Building that aspect up first, then go for the big hotel.  If you did the tourism part right, a private entity would build a big hotel to cater to the tourism aspect and the conventions. This is of course assuming that Tourism and Conventions are a thing after all this.

Tourism should be fine in the medium term. After 9/11 it took years for conventions to come back, this will be worse.

And Tulsa does have 700+ rooms at the convention center right now, including a convention hotel with 450 rooms, the Double Tree. I don't see more than that needed for a bunch of years after Covid.
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DowntownDan
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« Reply #464 on: April 15, 2020, 09:08:06 am »

Agree, I think itís a positive but still taking some getting used to.  Similar to the condos on Main downtown.  I still think the best place for multi-level density on Cherry Street is along 15th at Lincoln Plaza. 

The AW/Long Johns Silver site would make for a nice mid-rise residential spot.
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