Crosswalk timers

[TheTed]

It seems they've just installed timers on a lot of crosswalks downtown. Along First and Archer is where I've seen the most of them. In theory, I like the addition. In practice, however, they seem to be installed strangely.

At most of them 5-10 seconds elapse after the timer turns to zero before the light turns yellow. At a couple of them, the light turns yellow immediately upon the timer reaching zero. I've always thought the purpose of the countdown timer was to show how much time was left to cross, so I don't really see the need for 5-10 seconds extra after the timer reaches zero.

I hope they're just working the kinks out. The most important thing is that they all be the same in terms of the extra time after the countdown reaches zero.

Anybody have any info on these? Will they be installed all over downtown?

[TheTed]

They seem to be spreading across downtown.

And they make no sense whatsoever. I've seen several of instances of timers at the same intersection where one direction, the light turns yellow at zero. The other direction, there's a 5-10 second delay after zero.

I think this is part of our new plan to get rid of pedestrians. Get them used to a 10 second delay after zero, but throw a few in there with no delay. It's sort of like when towns monkey with yellow light times to generate revenue. Only instead of revenue, we're generating dangerous situations for pedestrians.

[Hoss]

They seem to be spreading across downtown.

And they make no sense whatsoever. I've seen several of instances of timers at the same intersection where one direction, the light turns yellow at zero. The other direction, there's a 5-10 second delay after zero.

I think this is part of our new plan to get rid of pedestrians. Get them used to a 10 second delay after zero, but throw a few in there with no delay. It's sort of like when towns monkey with yellow light times to generate revenue. Only instead of revenue, we're generating dangerous situations for pedestrians.

Yes, I've seen them at the corner of 2nd and Denver (the T intersection to the arena).  I had noticed they had been using touch sensitive buttons to activate them, but hadn't noticed the timers until now.  Most larger cities I've been to have these already.

[TheTed]

Yes, I've seen them at the corner of 2nd and Denver (the T intersection to the arena).  I had noticed they had been using touch sensitive buttons to activate them, but hadn't noticed the timers until now.  Most larger cities I've been to have these already.

I've seen them in plenty of cities, larger and smaller than Tulsa. But I've never seen such a delay. The seven second delay from zero to yellow is enough time to cross the street if you hustle. At least if they all had that delay, I could adjust to it. But the fact that a few of them have no delay is not user friendly nor is it safe.

[dsjeffries]

They're being installed in downtown over the next two or three months, along with new LED traffic signals, as part of a nearly $700,000 grant. They're replacing 1100 lights, and I would imagine that once all of them have been installed, they'll be appropriately synced.

Lights, however well-timed they are, can't overrule common sense. If it's safe to walk, walk. If not, don't. Drivers in Tulsa don't exactly pay attention to pedestrians or lights.

And plus, if you're given extra time after it reaches zero, that would theoretically make it safer for a pedestrian to get across the street, not more dangerous. In any instance, one should try to be across the street by the time it reaches zero.

[YoungTulsan]

Maybe the crosswalk timers are all timed exactly the same, but the traffic signals are set to different timers in different directions and intersections?

[TheTed]

And plus, if you're given extra time after it reaches zero, that would theoretically make it safer for a pedestrian to get across the street, not more dangerous. In any instance, one should try to be across the street by the time it reaches zero.

If their set so there's extra time after zero, we're back to square one. Which is where we were before the timers were installed. Before the timers were installed, the average pedestrian could cross the street safely two or three times during the time 'don't walk' was flashing but the light was still green.

You either wait for the walk signal at every light (which would probably double the time it would take to walk any distance downtown) or you make a decision to cross without being given enough information to really know whether you have time.

The purpose of the timers is to give pedestrians the proper amount of information as to whether they have time to cross.

Sidenote: At least we're not Dallas. While downtown there, I saw a timer that was counting down from 99 or something. I pulled up at a cross street in my car, tripped the signal, and it immediately went to zero and the light changed. That's just completely ridiculous and unsafe. But I'd expect no less from one of the most car dependent to the detriment of pedestrians in every single part of the city.

[dsjeffries]

If their set so there's extra time after zero, we're back to square one. Which is where we were before the timers were installed. Before the timers were installed, the average pedestrian could cross the street safely two or three times during the time 'don't walk' was flashing but the light was still green.

And that statement shows that most people don't know what the lights mean... The walking person or WALK means it's the pedestrian's turn to cross the street. The flashing hand or DON'T WALK means "don't start walking across the street because there may not be enough time for you to cross the street". A steady hand symbol or DON'T WALK means the light is about to change to red and that time has expired. Pedestrians should not be in the street when the DON'T WALK like is steady.

From walkinginfo.org:

Agencies typically provide enough flashing DON'T WALK time for a person to cross the street at a walking pace of four feet per second. Elderly or mobility-impaired people may require more time, and a slower walking speed of 3.5 or 3.0 feet per second may be more appropriate. If this is still not enough time, it may be advisable to study the location to determine the actual walking rate. In some cases it may be best for pedestrians to wait for the next green light and WALK signal before crossing.

The Manual on Uniform Traffic Control Devices (MUTCD) provides guidance that at least seven seconds of WALK time should be provided so that pedestrians have adequate opportunity to leave the curb before the clearance interval begins. The flashing orange UPRAISED HAND/DON'T WALK interval is the pedestrian clearance interval. It is similar in concept to the yellow light clearance interval for motor vehicles. Pedestrians should be provided sufficient time to cross the street without being rushed.

Even if there are a few extra seconds before the traffic light turns red, you shouldn't begin crossing the street with a flashing DON'T WALK and you shouldn't be in the intersection at all by the time the pedestrian crossing is a steady DON'T WALK.

Wait a few months and see if, after the installation of all 1,100 new lights are installed, they're not in sync and re-timed.

[TheTed]

And that statement shows that most people don't know what the lights mean... The walking person or WALK means it's the pedestrian's turn to cross the street. The flashing hand or DON'T WALK means "don't start walking across the street because there may not be enough time for you to cross the street". A steady hand symbol or DON'T WALK means the light is about to change to red and that time has expired. Pedestrians should not be in the street when the DON'T WALK like is steady.

From walkinginfo.org:
Even if there are a few extra seconds before the traffic light turns red, you shouldn't begin crossing the street with a flashing DON'T WALK and you shouldn't be in the intersection at all by the time the pedestrian crossing is a steady DON'T WALK.

I know what they mean. I also know that there's not much more frustrating than stopping every block and standing there while there was plenty of time to pass through the intersection before cross traffic had a green light.

On the old crosswalks downtown when I was figuring out whether to cross or not, walk meant you had all the time in the world. Flashing don't walk meant you still had plenty of time. Solid don't walk while the light was still green meant you still had time to make it before the light turned.

The walk/don't walk signals must be timed for people who are an average of 92 years old, because the timing of walk/don't walk is just ridiculous. No able-bodied human walks as slowly as those signals assume.

If you stood there and waited for the walk signal at every intersection, your time to get from point A to point B downtown would easily double for no good reason.

[sgrizzle]

Maybe the crosswalk timers are all timed exactly the same, but the traffic signals are set to different timers in different directions and intersections?

Every light I've seen has turned Yellow when it hits Zero. As far as timing goes, the countdown ranges depending on the light. I've gone through a 10 and a 15 at the same intersection.

[dbacks fan]

Every light I've seen has turned Yellow when it hits Zero. As far as timing goes, the countdown ranges depending on the light. I've gone through a 10 and a 15 at the same intersection.

Here in Phoenix the downtown ones are set at 24 seconds, and the ones that are being placed elsewhere are usually 30 seconds and some 45 depending on the area. But as grizz points out about when it hits zero, that's the way all of them are here. If there is any delay between zero and the light changing to yellow it's un noticable. The one advantage I have found in driving is that since they are all set the same way, I can judge wether or not I will make the light.

[Townsend]

I assumed they'd have to start timing them for all the Hoverounds we'd have if they open a Walmart downtown.

[swake]

I assumed they'd have to start timing them for all the Hoverounds we'd have if they open a Walmart downtown.

Don't go there, don't even say that. That's a bad, bad idea that should never be mentioned again. Some bored developer might just read that and get (bad) ideas.

[TheTed]

Every light I've seen has turned Yellow when it hits Zero. As far as timing goes, the countdown ranges depending on the light. I've gone through a 10 and a 15 at the same intersection.

Maybe they've fixed my complaint, but as of last week the majority of them had a significant delay of 5-7 seconds. I don't mind the delay, just as long as it's consistent across the board.

If 95% of them have a delay, I'm gonna get stuck out in the middle of the intersection on one of the 5% that have no delay.

[custosnox]

I just don't understand the need for crosswalk signals downtown, except between 5 and 6.  With the ultra wide roads meant to drain the area as quickly as possible, I spend more time waiting, watching an empty street, than is given for a time to cross.