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December 10, 2018, 06:44:36 am
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Author Topic: Brady Street Name Change  (Read 291 times)
Rattle Trap
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« on: November 08, 2018, 05:09:45 pm »

Can we talk about how stupid this whole name changing thing is?

http://www.publicradiotulsa.org/post/brady-street-renaming-hold-after-being-pulled-tulsa-council-agenda

I don't understand the obsession with changing the name of everything because such and such person did something bad in life. They've changed "Brady Arts District" to the ultra generic "Arts District" and renamed an elementary school. Generally this topic isn't even worth the time or effort to care about, but the constant bending over backwards of city officials to appease the very small group of people actually offended by this gets so annoying. Not to mention it keeps Tulsa in a national spot light for something that we don't want to be in the spotlight for.

If we're going to censor and erase from history every person who did something bad in their lifetime, then we've got a big job ahead of us. Better start tearing down monuments referencing every founding father who owned slaves. While were at it let's change the state's name to something else since "Oklahoma" means "red people". That's racist, right?

I've talked to people from other states who are under the impression that this city is a cesspool of racism based on all of these national articles they read about the city council or mayor or whoever promoting some kind of reconciliation for the terrible riot that happened 100 years ago. If anyone read the NYtimes article on the Gathering Place, half of it was just about Tulsa's terrible racist past and how we're still trying to deal with it. What's even worse was city officials sharing it like crazy because of the national attention. To me it was embarrassing.

Rant over Lips sealed
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swake
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« Reply #1 on: November 08, 2018, 05:28:28 pm »

Can we talk about how stupid this whole name changing thing is?

http://www.publicradiotulsa.org/post/brady-street-renaming-hold-after-being-pulled-tulsa-council-agenda

I don't understand the obsession with changing the name of everything because such and such person did something bad in life. They've changed "Brady Arts District" to the ultra generic "Arts District" and renamed an elementary school. Generally this topic isn't even worth the time or effort to care about, but the constant bending over backwards of city officials to appease the very small group of people actually offended by this gets so annoying. Not to mention it keeps Tulsa in a national spot light for something that we don't want to be in the spotlight for.

If we're going to censor and erase from history every person who did something bad in their lifetime, then we've got a big job ahead of us. Better start tearing down monuments referencing every founding father who owned slaves. While were at it let's change the state's name to something else since "Oklahoma" means "red people". That's racist, right?

I've talked to people from other states who are under the impression that this city is a cesspool of racism based on all of these national articles they read about the city council or mayor or whoever promoting some kind of reconciliation for the terrible riot that happened 100 years ago. If anyone read the NYtimes article on the Gathering Place, half of it was just about Tulsa's terrible racist past and how we're still trying to deal with it. What's even worse was city officials sharing it like crazy because of the national attention. To me it was embarrassing.

Rant over Lips sealed

Like it or not we are the site of the very worst race "riot" in US history, and this country has a long and ugly history of racism. We have done little to ever address that.

White residents led by the KKK marched on the black part of the city based on a lie, burned every building and murdered hundreds, if not thousands of black residents. No one ever went to jail, no reparations were ever paid. In fact the homeless black residents that survived were housed as prisoners. Tate Brady was a leader in Tulsa's KKK that led the riot, we know he participated and he likely helped lead the riot.

You want to defend that guy?

« Last Edit: November 08, 2018, 08:24:19 pm by swake » Logged
heironymouspasparagus
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« Reply #2 on: November 08, 2018, 07:25:16 pm »

Like it or not are the site of the very worst race "riot" in US history, and this country has a long and ugly history of racism. We have done little to ever address that.

White residents led by the KKK marched on the black part of the city based on a lie, burned every building and murdered hundreds, if not thousands of black residents. No one ever went to jail, no reparations were ever paid. In fact the homeless black residents that survived were housed as prisoners. Tate Brady was a leader in Tulsa's KKK that led the riot, we know he participated and he likely helped lead the riot.

You want to defend that guy?





Don't get the feel at all that Rattle Trap wants to defend him, but I guarantee you there are many in this area who do.  Remember Trump's double fist pump on 9/11.  That's how they feel and they say, "we showed them...a thing or two!!"





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patric
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« Reply #3 on: November 08, 2018, 09:44:40 pm »


Don't get the feel at all that Rattle Trap wants to defend him, but I guarantee you there are many in this area who do.  Remember Trump's double fist pump on 9/11.  That's how they feel and they say, "we showed them...a thing or two!!"


I would not support yet another name change because its as pointless as the first, but then Im one of those who still calls Expo Square..Expo square.

Whichever Brady we want to call it would have a better ring than the sterile "Reconciliation Way," and I dont for a minute believe that these second-thoughts actually accomplish anything towards rectifying racism past or present. 
If we are sincere about practicing harmonious diversity we need to focus on more than just street signs.

The Brady Theater will always be known as the Brady Theater, as long as Tulsa is known as Tulsa. 
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TulsaGoldenHurriCAN
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« Reply #4 on: November 09, 2018, 12:54:02 pm »

Like it or not we are the site of the very worst race "riot" in US history, and this country has a long and ugly history of racism. We have done little to ever address that.

White residents led by the KKK marched on the black part of the city based on a lie, burned every building and murdered hundreds, if not thousands of black residents. No one ever went to jail, no reparations were ever paid. In fact the homeless black residents that survived were housed as prisoners. Tate Brady was a leader in Tulsa's KKK that led the riot, we know he participated and he likely helped lead the riot.

You want to defend that guy?



Source on that part? It might have been around 200-300 but no way was it in the thousands.

Quote
Twenty-four hours after the violence erupted, it ceased. In the wake of the violence, 35 city blocks lay in charred ruins, over 800 people were treated for injuries and contemporary reports of deaths began at 36. Historians now believe as many as 300 people may have died.

https://tulsahistory.org/learn/online-exhibits/the-tulsa-race-riot/


Who is defending Brady? The point is renaming is ridiculous (especially after it was already renamed once) and virtually all major people in US history did some terrible things (Washington owned slaves, Andrew Jackson gave us the Trail of Tears, Christopher Columbus was a horrible human being). Where does it stop on erasing history and acting like certain things didn't happen? Some atrocities are recent enough for name changes but over 100 years they're forgiven? Oh wait, Lee was from 1860's so it's a 160 year limit which is why Andrew Jackson is safe.
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TulsaGoldenHurriCAN
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« Reply #5 on: November 09, 2018, 01:00:34 pm »

Quote
During his famous debates with Sen. Stephen Douglas, Lincoln explained to the crowd: “I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races … I am not nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of Negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will forever forbid the two races from living together on terms of social and political equality. And inasmuch as they cannot so live, while they do remain together there must be a position of superior and inferior, and I as much as any other man am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race.”

Lincoln was no different than most white males, North and South, at the time. He was a white supremacist.

I propose we remove the Lincoln monument and remove his face off the $5 bill and penny. I'm not being facetious either. He was a racist white supremacist. We have no room for this in a multi-cultural society. Lincoln should be shamed and hidden from society. He is the face of oppression that offers an olive branch with one hand and a holds a whip behind the other.

Fortunately they are removing Andrew Jackson from the $20 bill, but that is a very weak start to what needs to be a full re-education process to teach Americans that he was a terrible human being who hated real Americans (Natives) and should not be commemorated for those atrocities. Same with Christopher Columbus. But keep the "C" in Washington DC so we can be reminded of the offensive racist and colonial beginnings of this great diverse country. There's a difference between having their faces and statues which celebrate them and changing every name of every road, town or school around the country.
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Rattle Trap
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« Reply #6 on: November 28, 2018, 09:18:30 pm »

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- Tulsa City Council voted Wednesday to rename M.B. Brady Street downtown.
- The new name, Reconciliation Way, will go into effect July 1, 2019.
- Those with M.B. Brady Street addresses will have 6 months after July 1 to have addresses changed.
- In 2013, councilors renamed the street from "Brady" to "M.B. Brady" as a compromise to change its association with Tate Brady to civil war photographer Matthew Brady.
- In 2017,  the area's business association changed the name of the "Brady Arts District" to the "Tulsa Arts District."
- Talks to rename the streets began again this year.
This is a developing story. Check back for updates.

https://www.krmg.com/news/local/tulsa-city-council-votes-rename-brady-street/UKWh3CRGMUGb252MPCK7fP/

They did it guys. They defeated racism! This is what happens when you focus on one bad aspect of someone's life and disregard everything good they did for a city and group of people. If you actually read about Brady, you get a very different picture from what proponents of this name change want you to believe. This is how you lose identity, history, and pride of a city. Not to mention all those who will be inconvenienced by address changes.

And for the love of God could they have at least chosen a better name besides "Reconciliation Way"
« Last Edit: November 28, 2018, 09:22:34 pm by Rattle Trap » Logged
patric
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« Reply #7 on: November 28, 2018, 09:50:21 pm »

https://www.krmg.com/news/local/tulsa-city-council-votes-rename-brady-street/UKWh3CRGMUGb252MPCK7fP/

They did it guys. They defeated racism! This is what happens when you focus on one bad aspect of someone's life and disregard everything good they did for a city and group of people. If you actually read about Brady, you get a very different picture from what proponents of this name change want you to believe. This is how you lose identity, history, and pride of a city. Not to mention all those who will be inconvenienced by address changes.

And for the love of God could they have at least chosen a better name besides "Reconciliation Way"


"Renunciation Way"  has a nice ring to it, and they can make the new street signs out of cardboard.
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Conan71
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« Reply #8 on: November 29, 2018, 11:26:11 am »

https://www.krmg.com/news/local/tulsa-city-council-votes-rename-brady-street/UKWh3CRGMUGb252MPCK7fP/

They did it guys. They defeated racism! This is what happens when you focus on one bad aspect of someone's life and disregard everything good they did for a city and group of people. If you actually read about Brady, you get a very different picture from what proponents of this name change want you to believe. This is how you lose identity, history, and pride of a city. Not to mention all those who will be inconvenienced by address changes.

And for the love of God could they have at least chosen a better name besides "Reconciliation Way"

I guess this is better than the re-naming of Lee Elementary to Council Oak Elementary since that ostensibly honors the Creek Tribe which settled in the immediate area.  It is known that the Creeks kept slaves.  So, we can't honor a Confederate general who led a fight for the right to own slaves (and I assume he was a slave owner as well- I'm not a Lee biographer) but we can honor a tribe who enslaved people.  M'kay.

This Brady business all started with the article This Land Press published on Brady about 5-6 years ago.  At the time, I went over the author's, the late Lee Roy Chapman, research and there was plenty of innuendo, suppositions, and long dim recollections relied upon for the tar and feathering Chapman laid on Brady.  If you search around on the site here you can find the conclusions I found and at one point, the author himself even commented here.

I really don't understand why there are people who think white-washing history makes it all better because nothing ever seems to be enough reparations for the ugliness of humankind.  For what it is worth, there were other prominent civic leaders in Tulsa who were KKK members and we were still almost half a century away from a better understanding of  racial considerations for all humans in the early 1920's. 
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heironymouspasparagus
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« Reply #9 on: November 29, 2018, 08:10:45 pm »

https://www.krmg.com/news/local/tulsa-city-council-votes-rename-brady-street/UKWh3CRGMUGb252MPCK7fP/

They did it guys. They defeated racism! This is what happens when you focus on one bad aspect of someone's life and disregard everything good they did for a city and group of people. If you actually read about Brady, you get a very different picture from what proponents of this name change want you to believe. This is how you lose identity, history, and pride of a city. Not to mention all those who will be inconvenienced by address changes.

And for the love of God could they have at least chosen a better name besides "Reconciliation Way"


Massacre Road.

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"So he brandished a gun, never shot anyone or anything right?"  --TeeDub, 17 Feb 2018.

I don’t share my thoughts because I think it will change the minds of people who think differently.  I share my thoughts to show the people who already think like me that they are not alone.
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