State Sen. Rice Proposing High Point Beer & Wine Sales In Grocery Stores

[Conan71]

I wrote emails to all of the senators who voted no, letting them know that I don't understand what's wrong with letting this go to a vote of the people, and that I find it insulting that apparently these senators don't think we are competent enough to vote on the laws that govern us. This is the one reply I have received.

Senator Burrage's vote on the liquor/wine issue was made strictly to protect the small business owners in his District.  Sales tax revenue for Rogers and Mayes County would be lost from our counties that so desperately need the revenue in order to offer services to the citizens in that area, such as police protection, fire protection, repairing roads and bridges, etc.  The bill only affects Tulsa and Oklahoma City, but we didn't want to lose our local shoppers to Tulsa County.  There is also a concern that law enforcement was fearful they couldn't enforce the laws to keep underage persons from purchasing liquor and wine.

What a total load of horse sh!t.  People won't drive from Rogers and Mayes Counties in droves to buy wine or high point beer at the grocery store.  If they are going to have trouble enforcing the laws keeping underage persons from purchasing liquor and wine (I didn't think liquor was on the measure, just high point beer and wine, either my reading skills suck or Burrage or his assistant's reading comprehension sucks) they must be struggling with enforcing laws keeping underage people from buying 3.2 beer.

[dbacks fan]

I wrote emails to all of the senators who voted no, letting them know that I don't understand what's wrong with letting this go to a vote of the people, and that I find it insulting that apparently these senators don't think we are competent enough to vote on the laws that govern us. This is the one reply I have received.

Senator Burrage's vote on the liquor/wine issue was made strictly to protect the small business owners in his District.  Sales tax revenue for Rogers and Mayes County would be lost from our counties that so desperately need the revenue in order to offer services to the citizens in that area, such as police protection, fire protection, repairing roads and bridges, etc.  The bill only affects Tulsa and Oklahoma City, but we didn't want to lose our local shoppers to Tulsa County.  There is also a concern that law enforcement was fearful they couldn't enforce the laws to keep underage persons from purchasing liquor and wine.

As I stated in an earlier post, the mom and pop businesses would scream foul at having to compete with the grocery stores for wine and strong beer. This has been an ongoing discussion since liquor by the drink was passed in '84 as a county option to be wet or dry. 26 years later the mom and pops and the liquor distributors don't want the competition from the grocery stores and their ability to sell at a lower price. Is Al Capone alive and well in the alchohol distribution business in Okla?

[PepePeru]

I like the wording of "small business owners"...come out and say it Burrage.  Please, come out and say you were protecting liquor stores with this vote. 

Tell that your weekly prayer meetings or your church congregation about all the good you've done as Senator.  Please, please please, tell them all the liquor stores you saved in your communities you represent.  I'm sure they'll appreciate it.

[bokworker]

How many of these "small business owners" are there? Protect the few at the cost of the many?

[PepePeru]

How many of these "small business owners" are there? Protect the few at the cost of the many?

According to Google maps, there are 4 in Claremore, 2 in Pryor 1 in Locust Grove 1 in Langley and 1 in Salina.

Glad you voted the way you did.  9 liquor stores must form a powerful lobby eh?  How many people do these 9 stores employ?  I'd wager at most 30 people, paying what kind of wage?  Do these jobs offer benefits?  Are these the type of jobs you want the youth of your Mayes & Rogers County to have?

Perhaps you should concern yourself more with the nearly 200 people who are losing their jobs at the Gatorade factory than protecting the 9 to 10 liquor stores in your district.

[jne]

Isn't it possible that more mom and pop neighborhood grocers might be created? Maybe it is a more viable business model if they can sell craft beer and wine.

[Conan71]

I'm going to talk to CF and see what needs to be done to get a legal petition put together and get it circulating.  I really don't appreciate a handful of Senaturds allowing their thinly-veiled morality to keep me from voting on a measure removing limitations on where I can spend my money.

I don't think not having high point beer or wine in grocery stores keeps conventions away or leads to halitosis, but I also don't see how this could hurt the liquor distributors, and really think the potential harm to liquor stores is overblown.  If they want to protect "mom-and-pop businesses" from competition, they should legislate a moritorium on licensing more bars and new liquor stores, and especially out of state restaurant chains who have bars in them.

There may well be people who never go into a liquor store in the first place who might start to enjoy a real craft beer or wine simply because of the added convenience of being able to buy it at the grocery store or thinking of a pairing with a certain meal.  If anything, I think having it in more locations improves the potential sales numbers.  As well, craft beers are generally $2 to $3 more per six pack than a domestic 3.2.  Since sales taxes are computed on a % of $ spent, that means a bigger gross haul for the state and local municipalities.  I seldom buy 3.2 anymore but if I want 3.2, I generally go to a convenience store to get it for two reasons- it's usually cheaper (even cheaper than Wal-Mart Market) and I can get in and out quicker.  The only times I buy beer at the GC is when it's a matter of convenience while doing my normal grocery shopping.

I can assure you such a law won't keep me from going to Collins, Columbia, Ranch Acres, Parkhills, etc.  A GC won't be able to carry the same variety of wine and beer that a dedicated store does.  I'll go to a liquor store before going through a rat maze at Reasors if all I need is some wine or good beer.

I think the way this needs to be done is as a state-wide vote and allow counties to opt in or out, just like liquor by the drink, so that pockets of fundies don't keep the rest of us from enjoying the convenience.

[custosnox]

I'm going to talk to CF and see what needs to be done to get a legal petition put together and get it circulating.  I really don't appreciate a handful of Senaturds allowing their thinly-veiled morality to keep me from voting on a measure removing limitations on where I can spend my money.

I don't think not having high point beer or wine in grocery stores keeps conventions away or leads to halitosis, but I also don't see how this could hurt the liquor distributors, and really think the potential harm to liquor stores is overblown.  If they want to protect "mom-and-pop businesses" from competition, they should legislate a moritorium on licensing more bars and new liquor stores, and especially out of state restaurant chains who have bars in them.

There may well be people who never go into a liquor store in the first place who might start to enjoy a real craft beer or wine simply because of the added convenience of being able to buy it at the grocery store or thinking of a pairing with a certain meal.  If anything, I think having it in more locations improves the potential sales numbers.  As well, craft beers are generally $2 to $3 more per six pack than a domestic 3.2.  Since sales taxes are computed on a % of $ spent, that means a bigger gross haul for the state and local municipalities.  I seldom buy 3.2 anymore but if I want 3.2, I generally go to a convenience store to get it for two reasons- it's usually cheaper (even cheaper than Wal-Mart Market) and I can get in and out quicker.  The only times I buy beer at the GC is when it's a matter of convenience while doing my normal grocery shopping.

I can assure you such a law won't keep me from going to Collins, Columbia, Ranch Acres, Parkhills, etc.  A GC won't be able to carry the same variety of wine and beer that a dedicated store does.  I'll go to a liquor store before going through a rat maze at Reasors if all I need is some wine or good beer.

I think the way this needs to be done is as a state-wide vote and allow counties to opt in or out, just like liquor by the drink, so that pockets of fundies don't keep the rest of us from enjoying the convenience.

I buy most of my beer out of state, what little I do buy I pick up at the liquor store because I can't stand the 3.2.  However, on those rare occasion that I do get 3.2, I also get it at a convenience store.  I don't think I have ever bought beer at a GC, though I might if I could get Corona high-point there, just so I don't have to make an additional stop to get the limes.  You would think that the law makers would want more business to stay where they could tax it, i.e. in Oklahoma, instead of people stocking up when they travel across state lines and letting other states collect that tax money.  There is a reason, after all, of why prohibition was repealed.

If you get a petition started I would be willing to help out in whatever limited means I have at my disposal.

[rwarn17588]

If you get a petition started I would be willing to help out in whatever limited means I have at my disposal.

Same here. And, yes, the explanations by Burrage and Brogdon were lame. Not that I was surprised by that. 

[SXSW]

I have signed both an actual petition for this same issue and an online petition.  I don't know what became of either of them, but if there is another I will gladly sign it.

There is a grass roots group called Oklahoman's for Alcohol Law Reform (OFALR) that could be a place to start.  They seem pretty organized.

http://ofalr.com/

[Nik]

Conan, I highly doubt you can count on the big grocers to carry craft beers. Sure, they may carry Marshalls and Coop and Choc because of the local affiliation, but I'd be shocked if they carried other craft beers. This was actually brought up on BeerAdvocate. Some believe the craft beer industry in Oklahoma would be hurt by this. I don't completely buy that argument since the craft beer industry in Oklahoma is still in its infancy and the market has matured very well in other markets that have looser alcohol restrictions than Oklahoma. But I do buy the argument that with the limited shelf space of a major grocer, they're going to carry the products that sell in bulk.

I think if you want to allow continued competition between grocers and liquor stores, enforce the same rule on grocers that you can't sell high point beer above room temperature, but allow liquor stores to refrigerate their beer.

[OpenYourEyesTulsa]

I'm going to talk to CF and see what needs to be done to get a legal petition put together and get it circulating.

I would love to volunteer my help with circulating a petition to modernize the liquor laws in Oklahoma.  I used to be a paid petition circulator in the late 90's and back then it was pretty tough to get enough signatures without someone with deep pockets funding it.  It may be different now.  I do think that Sen. Rice's proposal was a step in the right direction but not enough.  It should be for all of Oklahoma (any county can opt out if they want to) and make it apply to all grocery stores, convenience stores, liquor stores, and mom and pop stores equally.  Also allow sales 7 days a week, 365 days a year, until late hours.  It should also include liquor in addition to beer and wine.  We should also be able to have wine shipped to residences in Oklahoma from out of state.

[Red Arrow]

We should also be able to have wine shipped to residences in Oklahoma from out of state.

And beer and liquor.
I have seen a few craft beers I'd like to try that ship but not to Oklahoma (of course).
There is a rum made on Maui (Hawaii) that I like but they have limited distribution.

[Conan71]

Conan, I highly doubt you can count on the big grocers to carry craft beers. Sure, they may carry Marshalls and Coop and Choc because of the local affiliation, but I'd be shocked if they carried other craft beers. This was actually brought up on BeerAdvocate. Some believe the craft beer industry in Oklahoma would be hurt by this. I don't completely buy that argument since the craft beer industry in Oklahoma is still in its infancy and the market has matured very well in other markets that have looser alcohol restrictions than Oklahoma. But I do buy the argument that with the limited shelf space of a major grocer, they're going to carry the products that sell in bulk.

I think if you want to allow continued competition between grocers and liquor stores, enforce the same rule on grocers that you can't sell high point beer above room temperature, but allow liquor stores to refrigerate their beer.

Take a look at how much shelf space "specialty" low point brews get in convenience and grocery stores alike in the last few years.  Like low point Boulevard in a few varieties, some of the AB "craft" brews, 3.2 versions of the popular Mexican beers, and some of the Euro brands like Heineken.  They already compete with liquor stores based on brand name and labeling alone.  Apparently they must sell it or otherwise they would not have it on the shelves.  Shelf turns are important to the grocery business. 

Most everyone realizes that the Corona they are buying at Reasor's doesn't have the kick that it does from Parkhill's but it's got a different flavor than Miller Low Life and apparently the convenience of being able to buy it when someone is buying taco fixings seems to work.  There's no more a threat to liquor store revenue by GC's offering Corona or Heineken in 6 point warm or cold than there is offering it now in 3.2 and cold. 

If you made grocers sell it hot and liquor stores to sell it cold, it's no longer the same rule.  So I guess your last sentence left me puzzled unless you are suggesting that both GC's and LC's sell similar products at the same temp.

[rwarn17588]

Conan, I highly doubt you can count on the big grocers to carry craft beers. Sure, they may carry Marshalls and Coop and Choc because of the local affiliation, but I'd be shocked if they carried other craft beers. 

I disagree with this. I've seen six-packs of Blue Moon, Boulevard and other craft brews at my neighborhood QuikTrip. If QT sells these things, surely the big grocers will and then some.