North Tulsa to Get Grocery Store

[Gaspar]

It's crazy, EBT is not supposed to be able to buy "hot food". 

However, USDA site says; 

http://www.fns.usda.gov/snap/eligible-food-items

At least tell Sonic/McD's/etc.  "you can't take these cards".

Buuut. . .that would be restricting access to food!

[TeeDub]

EBT are typically sorted into two general categories:
Food and Cash benefits.

Food benefits are federally authorized benefits that can be used only to purchase food and non-alcoholic beverages. Food benefits, formerly called Food Stamps, are now called SNAP [Supplemental Nutritional Assistance Program].
Food Stamp benefits can only be used to purchase food items authorized by the USDA's SNAP program. These include chewing gum, pastries, desserts, and snack foods.

Cash benefits include State General Assistance, TANF (Temporary Aid for Needy Families) benefits and refugee benefits.
Cash benefits may be used to purchase any item at a participating retailer, as well as to obtain cash-back or make a cash withdrawal from a participating ATM.

Here is an article about Jack in the Box.   http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/local/article/Clearing-the-air-Does-Jack-in-the-Box-really-5578566.php

[DTowner]

EBT and SNAP (the new name for Food Stamps) are not one and the same.  EBT is simply the equivalent of a debit card account through which recipeints' various benefits are deposited and spent.  EBT usually contains monies received under SNAP and TANF (Temporary Assistance to Needy Families, the successor to AFDC), and other cash assistance programs.  SNAP/food stamp benefits are still ineligible for use for prepared foods, restaurant meals and other types of items (liquor/cigarettes, etc.).  Presumably, the EBT system permits only a recipients' cash benefits for purchases at places such as McDonalds and would deny the transaction if the EBT account had no TANF or other cash assistance benefits left in it, but had SNAP monies available.  I say "presumably," because that requires a lot of faith in the same government and its contractors that brought us the Obamacare website rollout and IRS email, etc., fiascos.

On a related note, for years the idea has been pushed to limit the types of foods SNAP reciepients could acquire with those benefits so that junk foods, etc. would be prohibited.  The idea has both practical and political problems.  Practically, it is hard to define "junk food" in a way that is useful and manageable at the point of sale.  Politically, the SNAP program falls under the Agriculture Committees in both the U.S. House and Senate.  Needless to say, the food company/grocery lobbyist push back very hard on any attempts to exclude any categories of food (when I worked on Capitol Hill I sat through a lot of meetings with those lobbyist on this very issue).  Finally, as a philosophocial matter, an argument can be made that it is paternistic to dictate what foods reciepients can buy and that we should let recilpients make their own decisions and live with the consequences (although Gaspar's point about paying for the health care costs of bad decisions is a good counter point).

[Gaspar]

I can provide a little more detail since I actually sell ERP systems for POS environments.  All EBT transactions are driven and reported via the POS system's integrated processor (FirstData, Heartland, ect.). The system views the transaction as a debit card transaction. The processor is required to make available (typically through web portal access) information on all EBT purchases to the USDA (who's local office just happens to be down the hall from mine).  If the USDA chooses to review data for a particular retailer, they have the following columns of information available. Card#| Location | Date | Time | Total Transaction Amount.  Basically the same data you have on a credit card recept.

They do not have line-item access to purchases because processors do not have line-item access (I won't even get into the PCI compliance aspect).  It is up to the USDA & FNS to investigate and enforce SNAP/EBT restrictions.  If you have a EBT account and there is a balance on the account, you can go buy a box of tacos.  You can go buy a 64oz blizzard blast.  The retailer has the right to restrict you, but at an automated Sonic terminal, I strongly doubt that EVER happens. 

[DTowner]

I can provide a little more detail since I actually sell ERP systems for POS environments.  All EBT transactions are driven and reported via the POS system's integrated processor (FirstData, Heartland, ect.). The system views the transaction as a debit card transaction. The processor is required to make available (typically through web portal access) information on all EBT purchases to the USDA (who's local office just happens to be down the hall from mine).  If the USDA chooses to review data for a particular retailer, they have the following columns of information available. Card#| Location | Date | Time | Total Transaction Amount.  Basically the same data you have on a credit card recept.

They do not have line-item access to purchases because processors do not have line-item access (I won't even get into the PCI compliance aspect).  It is up to the USDA & FNS to investigate and enforce SNAP/EBT restrictions.  If you have a EBT account and there is a balance on the account, you can go buy a box of tacos.  You can go buy a 64oz blizzard blast.  The retailer has the right to restrict you, but at an automated Sonic terminal, I strongly doubt that EVER happens. 

As I feared.  A surprisingly large part of our welfare system operates on the "honor system."  Even worse, states administer SNAP and get reimbursed for the administrative costs by the Feds.  Because it is federally paid benefit $, states have historically had very high error rates and had little financial incentive to correct those errors.  Efforts were made back in the 1990s to impose penalties, but that only lasted until states were actually assessed large financial penalties for their errors and complained to their Congressional delegations.

The USDA Inspector General's office investigates food stamp fraud, but they are usually years behind the offenders techniques and way too small to monitor a program handing out billions of $ a year.

[Townsend]

Buuut. . .that would be restricting access to food!

So do fences.

McDonald's should not be allowed to be categorized as "food".

[dbacksfan 2.0]

As I feared.  A surprisingly large part of our welfare system operates on the "honor system."  Even worse, states administer SNAP and get reimbursed for the administrative costs by the Feds.  Because it is federally paid benefit $, states have historically had very high error rates and had little financial incentive to correct those errors.  Efforts were made back in the 1990s to impose penalties, but that only lasted until states were actually assessed large financial penalties for their errors and complained to their Congressional delegations.

The USDA Inspector General's office investigates food stamp fraud, but they are usually years behind the offenders techniques and way too small to monitor a program handing out billions of $ a year.

IIRC Arizona does not allow any food that is prepared and sold to be purchased with a SNAP card. You could go to Papa Murphy's and buy a pizza because it's not cooked on premise, but you can't got to Papa John's and buy one. The only work around is if you were to go to Albertson's you can't get a rotisserie chicken in the deli, but you can once they put it in the cold case as a marked down. Same if you went to a convenience store, you can't get the hot dog off the roller, but you can get a cold prepackaged sandwich.

[Gaspar]

So do fences.

McDonald's should not be allowed to be categorized as "food".

But you can't do that!  That would be like saying an IUD is not a form of birth control.

[Townsend]

But you can't do that!  That would be like saying an IUD is not a form of birth control.

Abortifacient.

[Gaspar]

Abortifacient.

I agree.  That is what McDonald's food is.

[Townsend]

I agree.  That is what McDonald's food is.

Well...it prob provides the "100% beef" in the hamburgers and the "chicken" nuggets.

[dbacksfan 2.0]

Well...it prob provides the "100% beef" in the hamburgers and the "chicken" nuggets.

Then what is, dare I ask, in a McRib?

[Townsend]

Then what is, dare I ask, in a McRib?

I just googled that.  I recommend you don't.

[dbacksfan 2.0]

I just googled that.  I recommend you don't.

Took your advice and didn't. I've only had one, and that was in 1986 or 1987.

[DolfanBob]

I just googled that.  I recommend you don't.

Goes to prove the human stomach can handle almost anything.