TMAPC Commissioner, Elizabeth Wright: Public Hearing

[Liz Wright]

Greetings -

The Tulsa World called Friday to get a statement regarding an agenda item on the Board of Commissioner's agenda. Apparently on November 2, a request for a public hearing will be heard. If approved, the hearing will be on November 23.

Fortunately Kevin Canfield called, else I would not have known about the agenda item.

The story will in be in Sunday's paper. My comments will be posted afterwards.

Sincerely,

Elizabeth Wright

Comments, questions, etc. are always welcomed.

 

[Liz Wright]

On Friday November 6th I received the Petition for Removal. I am under the assumption that my removal is precedent setting. Hopefully some good will come of this action.

The causes are 1. Violation of the Code of Interest, Conflict of Interest 2. Conduct which materially and adversely affects the orderly or efficient operation of the TMAPC and 3. Appearing at the City Council

The link to the TMAPC minutes for the May 21, 2008 meeting appears below. The discussion concerning QT begins on p. 45 and my attempt to correct Mr. Norman's assertions appears on p. 55. The May 21st meeting was the longest in TMAPC history. We began at 1:30 pm and ended shortly before 11:00 pm that night. Many citizens showed up to air their concerns on a myraid of issues. Why the agenda was stacked that day is entirely your opinion.

http://www.tmapc.org/Approved%20Minutes/2008/05-21-08.pdf

I get the giggles over #2. As I tend to "ask questions developers don't like", I suppose that could be construed as "affects the orderly or efficient operation of the TMAPC".

As an appointed commissioner we are suppose to ask questions.

As a private citizen I have this right, it is called the First Amendment. I happen to like it. I hope you do too. Although I repeatedly stated that I was a private citizen - I did exactly what I was told I could do as long as I state clearly that I am speaking as a private citizen. I guess it isn't okay after all. In fact, the TMAPC spent many many weeks rewriting the ethics code to discourage speaking at the city council - all because of little ole me.

The questions that begs an answer - is what is really going on? Anyone know?

For anyone who has attended or watched meetings I would sincerely like to hear your impression of efficient operations.

The charges are suppose to merit "just cause".

Rather than to nilly willy in fabrications I would rather use my removal to hold the Board of County Commissioners, the Mayor and the City Council accountable for equitable representation on the TMAPC from all parts of the City.

There are 9 commissioners in total. Three are appointed by the County. I was under the assumption that the three county districts were to be represented by residents in those districts. Presently District 1 - North Tulsa County (Smaligo) is represented by Gail Carnes, (a builder before selling mobile homes), for the past 20+ years. He works on Admiral but lives in South Tulsa. District 3 - South Tulsa -  (Perry) is represented by John Dix, retired QT real estate acquistioner, lives in Collinsville. District 2 - Middle of Tulsa County - (Keith) is represented by Liz Wright who lives and works on District 2. Small Business owner - Tutoring and has no connection to builders, developers or commercial or residential real estate.

The City Council rubber stamps the mayoral recommendations. The present 6 all live in midtown, City Council districts 4 and 9. Josh Walker, commercial real estate; Phil Marshall, residential builder; Bill Leighty residential real estate; John Shivel, retired military (?); Keith McArtor, lawyer; Michelle Cantrell, housewife. I have challenged the number of real estate connected commissioners. The Home Builders and Developers constitute the largest lobby Tulsa has. Yes, of course there are great developments. Far too often there are those that are less than great.

There is no representation from any other council districts.

Until pressure is placed on the mayor and the city council to get representation nothing will change. The TMAPC in many ways contribute (sic) to the economic development in Tulsa. Good planning leads to good economics.

Thank you.

Liz Wright

[rwarn17588]

The questions that begs an answer - is what is really going on? Anyone know?

I thought you'd answer that question, not ask it yourself. I got no dog in this hunt, but you seem to be spending a lot of time deflecting the questions rather than answering them.

[patric]

The link to the TMAPC minutes for the May 21, 2008 meeting appears below. The discussion concerning QT begins on p. 45 and my attempt to correct Mr. Norman's assertions appears on p. 55.

Ah, the 21st & Harvard QT PUD where the developer tried to submit a bogus lighting plan.
We discussed that at great length here...
http://www.tulsanow.org/forum/index.php?topic=6838.0

 

[Liz Wright]

On Friday November 6th I received the Petition for Removal. I am under the assumption that my removal is precedent setting. Hopefully some good will come of this action.

The causes are 1. Violation of the Code of Interest, Conflict of Interest 2. Conduct which materially and adversely affects the orderly or efficient operation of the TMAPC and 3. Appearing at the City Council

To clarify - Conflict of interest refers to my being president of the Florence Park Neighborhood Association. Conversations with residents surrounding 21st & Harvard began approximately May 2007 due to John Dix and Maria Barnes presenting the new and improved Quik Trip. The QT was the impetus for the NA to gear back up. Elections were held in November 2007 and John Dix (yes, he is currently on the TMAPC) was informed that the citizens he was speaking to did not represent Florence Park as a whole. No one from QT or their representative ever spoke at a FPNA meeting.

Our residents were soon bored with any conversation concerning QT and wanted to get on with Neighborhood business. We got the newsletter up and running and began having monthly activities. It was at the February or March meeting when Randi Miller showed up and discussed the TMAPC with me. She stated she was looking for a neighborhood person. She intereviewed me and appointed me. My first meeting was on April 16, 2008.

When QT came up at the following NA meeting (it was on the May 21 agenda), I left the room so as not to have a conflict of interest. The neighbors discussed without my knowing what they discussed. At the May 21 TMAPC meeting, neither Randi Miller nor Maria Barnes appeared.  

What constitutes conflict of interest? Chair Chip Ard and I discussed the matter prior to the May 21 meeting. Since Florence Park NA never took a stance one way or the other and simply provided the forum the NA didn't have a conflict. Since I personally am not affected in any way I do not gain or lose because of QT.

The loss is for the citizens on Gary Pl in their property values and the increase in traffic, trucks idling in the back parking lot  and congested parking along Gary Pl. QT trucks block other businesses on 21 and Gary. None of which affects me. The increase in traffic does as it does everyone who drives through that intersection.


As to appearing before the city council - I had every right to.

To Mr. Rwarn - No sir, I do not dodge questions, nor do I duck, run or otherwise avoid. Unless asked, I can't answer. Please then, ask.

Thank you for your questions.

Liz Wright

[Liz Wright]

I thought you'd answer that question, not ask it yourself. I got no dog in this hunt, but you seem to be spending a lot of time deflecting the questions rather than answering them.

Sir, there are several questions I can think of (and many others I am sure) that need answers. The fact that I will be removed is a given. Karen Keith has county resources and county lawyers to do whatever it takes. The County commissioners are accountable to no one save the voters at election time. Think of Bells - I now know what the Bells meant by the commissioner meetings. Yes, Randi Miller was voted out but not before Bells was torn down.

We are in the middle of the PlaniTulsa update. It will come before the TMAPC beginning Dec/Jan time frame and public hearings will be held. PlaniTulsa is the vision, the zoning to back it up will be next. Tulsa has no design standards making it very easy for certain projects to ... well - think of Santa Fe where the design standards dictate, or Williamsburg. Tulsa at this time has no overarching standards. Ours focus on lot size and square feet. What doesn't suit the developers is brought back to either the TMAPC or the BOA for "adjustments". That is why set backs get reduced from 30' to 5' for example. Or why lighting plans get modified, or landscape plans get reduced.

The County Commissioners get a very hefty salary. The City Councilors get a tiny one. Who do you suppose gets more calls from citizens? County has 4 yr terms, Councilors have 2 yr terms. And we tend to have short memories.

Hope this helps the Q & A portion.

Liz Wright

[rwarn17588]

OK, well, here are questions.

If there's a possible problem with conflict of interest, why didn't you simply resign from the Florence Park association? That's what many public officials do to avoid that sort of situation.

Do you discount the possibility of "rude" behavior on your part?

[Liz Wright]

OK, well, here are questions.

If there's a possible problem with conflict of interest, why didn't you simply resign from the Florence Park association? That's what many public officials do to avoid that sort of situation.

Do you discount the possibility of "rude" behavior on your part?

Hi -

Thank you for asking. Probably because we were in the middle of our Picnic and neighborhood garage sale. I would need to go back and look at our newsletters to recall exactly what was going on. Eventually I did resign from all responsibilities at the NA because of the economy. I think... February 2009. The last meeting I organized was in June '08. There again I need to look at the newsletter.

See - there just really wasn't a conflict of interest. It is being alleged. That was either my third or fourth meeting and the agenda was very full. I tried earnestly to be prepared for each item, to learn as much as I could about the history of each. Regarding QT, if it had gone in on a different corner would the same questions concerning conflict of interest be there? What consitutes conflict of interest? A certain number of feet from a project? Financial gain? What? I will contest that being informed or knowledgeable about a topic is not.

As to my being rude... Rude isn't grounds. Nor is blithering, or stuttering, or stammering, or only occassionally showing up and delaying the meeting by asking questions which clearly show they haven't read any minutes in weeks or months.; nor is going on and on just to fill up their allocated 20 minutes.  If it were, several commissioners should be removed and many of the developers and lawyers removed.

Btw, I was informed months ago that my questions promote more questions that people who don't want to answer them are forced to come up with some answers. Ergo Chair Cantrell was given marching orders to keep me quiet. Of course that was fed to me and never told to me directly.

For example, environmental questions, infrastructure questions, impact questions. According to our own training through the American Planning Association we can even request economic impact studies. We never have.

So why isn't it okay to question the developers and their representatives?

[DowntownNow]

Just to weigh in with my 2-cents worth on this subject given the TW commenters statement I posted in another post here and having read that City Ethics Ordinance now ad-nausem and even having ready pages 55-63 of the TMAPC meeting minutes Ms. Wright was kind enough to post on here.

If (and I say IF because legal language is so specific) the TMAPC prescribes to the same language contained within the City of Tulsa Ethics Ordinance, I see a problem here for you Ms. Wright.  

The COT Ethics Ordinance states that any official having the following, may have a conflict of interest and the possibility, not the actuality of a conflict, shall govern.

Organizational Interest in a company, business, organization, or other entity exists
when the City official is a director or a member of a board which establishes policy and/or
budgetary decisions for the entity.

Personal Interest means a direct or indirect interest, matter, or relationship not
shared by the general public which could be reasonably expected to impair the City
official's objectivity or independence of judgment.

As the acting President of the Florence Park Home Owners Association, you should have properly recused yourself from any discussion and allowed another HOA board member to take up the issue with the TMAPC thereby avoiding the Organizational Interest.

The fact that you live within the Florence Park neighborhood and as a Board member of the HOA, you took up the issue on behalf of your neighborood, you had a Personal Interest and should have also recused.

In either case, its unfortunate, I think you do a great job asking the right questions, but you have to know when to pick your battles and this wasn't it.   Its frustrating when you are trying to do the right thing but you have to walk a fine line in such instances.  

The least you could have done perhaps, in order to at least appear impartial, was to ask questions (without stating facts on behalf of the FPHOA), and announcing that if backup information, codes and such that were provided were in line with what the developer was proposing, you would favor it.

I think arguing more on behalf of the FPHOA in your capacity as a TMPAC member may have crossed a line, particularly if the language of the TMAPC's ethics code is the same as COT's - but then I dont know.  Do you have the language you could post here?

[inteller]

hey listen, Karen Keith doesn't care if there was a conflict of interest....if she truely did she would have made this an issue the day she was sworn in.  The other commissioners don't care either, because if they did they would have addressed this back in 2008 when it happened.  The fact of the matter is Keith is a thug, and the rest of the TMAPC are either thugs with incestuous relationships with the development lobby or toadies who claim one thing but then sit by and let the opposite happen {EDIT} Wright is frequently a lone holdout in the votes because she knows that the plans are frequently wrong/incomplete/incompatible.....if not at times down right unethical.

Actually READ the minutes.  Wright is asking questions in context of PLAIN and SIMPLE code rules, like handicap parking spaces.  I mean if she is going to recuse herself from the whole issue, who is going to ask those questions? They are basic questions to be covered for ANY development.  I didn't read anyone else clamoring to get those questions asked, they must have been shining their rubber stamps.

Actually these minutes, and just about any minutes from one of these kangaroo courts, shows just how corrupt and ridiculous TMAPC is.  Instead of sending these jackhole developers back to the drawing board they pull s hits like Midget and just keep modifying motions until they can get a vote to pass.  I'm actually shocked that Wright could keep going to these meetings and not come away with a sick slimy feeling that needed 3 cold showers to wash away.

[Liz Wright]

Thank you for your insight and comments. I truly appreciate them.

First I need to correct what I am sure is an oversight. A Home Owners Association normally covers subdivisions like "Hunters Crossing" and is built into the subdivision. You pay HOA dues (I hear they can be hefty). In a Neighborhood Association the boundaries are established by their own by-laws. There are no dues but a membership fee, if you want to pay it. There are many other differences - A NA doesn't make any financial decisions on the part of its membership for maintanence of properties. I am trying to distinguish between financially binding requirements on the part of a HOA regarding a subdivision vs. deciding to do t-shirts. Most of Tulsa  prior to 1975 was not in any organized HOA. We have subdivisions - I think there are 15 or so within the boundaries of Harvard to the BA, 15th to 21st - sometimes as small as a block. These are different than the south Tulsa subdivisions that we think of today. 

That small distinction is a rather major one for NA. In FP only the persons who actually live in FP can have a say on FP matters. Property owners outside FP have no say whatsoever.

At least this is how I understand the distinction.

Secondly - Florence Park does not have a relationship with the businesses that surround the neighborhood. At least they didn't when I was president. Other than to solicit advertising. This is an important distinction when contrasted with the Brookside NA and the Brookside Merchants Groups that have had issues. While I have not attended any of their meetings, I have been told the BNA has been taken over by the commercial interests. Effectively silencing the residents. This was never more acutely seen as during the Bomsada hearing (also May 21) when the Merchants came out against the NA. Again the interests of money over the quality of life of the citizens. Curiously enough, Chairman Ard read a letter by Karen Keith supporting Bomsada and against the neighborhoods. Just remembered that.

Thirdly, and then I have to go. ( I will follow up later to make sure I address your questions) Chairman Chip Ard and I discussed this matter at the time and I was left with the impression that there was not a problem. Remember this happened in May 2008 so now in November 2009 it is? What changed during this time? If Randi Miller or any of the other commissioners at that time had a problem I would have thought they would have addressed it then. Karen Keith was not a commissioner at that time. So it is rather clear to me that she was primed and pumped for this.


I do recall someone suggesting that I "temporarily" resign for a few days. I did not think that ethical.

Must go.

Thank you again.

Liz Wright

[inteller]

no if she was primed and pumped she would have done this the first day in office.  Now her donors/puppetmasters are calling in their favors.  You'd think that since QT already has one crony on the board why they would want another.

[Liz Wright]

I'm actually shocked that Wright could keep going to these meetings and not come away with a sick slimy feeling that needed 3 cold showers to wash away.

I don't know how to capture part of the text.

Thanks for the laugh. I need it.

Yes, there were meetings that required lots of decompression. Definately. And yes I know there are many sweetheart deals in the background. But.... and always pay attention to the but.... without fail, and I mean without fail on the worst days when I wondered why in the heck am I letting myself be subject to this nonesense - I would come home to emails or phone calls from people I had never met thanking me. I will never forget the gal who told me "you are my hero". How sweet. And that is why I could go into those meetings.

This is not a popularity contest. This involves peoples property values, their life interests, their sense of home and of community. This is very very important. This surmounts any yukies I might encounter.

Students are here.

Have a lovely day.

Thank you for the smile.

Liz Wright

[inteller]

and this folks, is the very reason for the sorry state of development/planning in this town.  When people like Wright are the exception and not the norm.  But Tulsa is getting exactly the kind of development it deserves....and until TMAPC is disbanded or completely reappointed with a new set of criteria it will continue to get what it deserves.

[FOTD]

Great use of TNF .... Liz Wright, thanks for showing up and educating those of us that were rather passive about what appeared to be a cat fight. Initiating this thread in itself shows strength in personal convictions. Inteller, you don't come around enough. This forum got more information on this issue out than anywhere else in Tulsa MSM.