A grassroots organization focused on the intelligent and sustainable development, preservation and revitalization of Tulsa.
 
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
November 20, 2017, 03:31:33 am
Pages: 1 ... 4 5 [6] 7 8 9   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Looks like the OHP takes it on the chin yet again.  (Read 17237 times)
TeeDub
City Father
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1101


WWW
« Reply #75 on: June 03, 2015, 11:24:51 am »

If anyone bowed up on me (not even counting the fact that the brother had a gun on his hip) and then shoved me to the ground, I would have shot them too.  

No matter what the cops did, charging up on them (or anyone else with a gun) and shoving them is a good way to dramatically shorten your life expectancy.
Logged

 
Weatherdemon
Civic Leader
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 365


« Reply #76 on: June 03, 2015, 11:29:13 am »

"(Trooper's Association Gary James said) Those troopers weren’t taunting them. They were on a state roadway. They have state jurisdiction there.”

Isnt this the same union lawyer who insisted that Trooper Martin's dashcam video clearly showed the ambulance paramedics attacking the trooper?  That the video completely exonerated Trooper Martin, and its too bad we cant show you that video?
(Spoiler: It didnt).

40 seconds of one of the 30-minute videos falls short of transparency.  We should also see the 2nd video of the trooper whose microphone wasnt underwater.  How much "preparation" does that require?




So, minister good guy who loves cops drinks and drives (1st offense) to what was first said to be to hunt and fish (2nd offense drinking while handling a firearm) which may or may not have resulted in him driving into high water which put him, his brother, and anyone who attempted to rescue them in danger.

They get stuck so someone calls for help. OHP shows up and wants them out of the water as 6 inches can sweep someone away and water was rising and falling quickly due to all of the rains we've had.

They walk up to the officer, who ID'ed himself as a state trooper with his patrol car lights flashing, and attacks him by shoving him (3rd offense) and taking him to the ground.


So, The cops are the bad guys for killing the guy who had committed between one and three felonies in last 30 minutes, one of which included assaulting an officer who was clearly identified by the flashing lights and verbal communication.

Yes, all of the video should be released from every camera on site.
Yes, the troopers should be held accountable if there was wrongdoing.
But, the brothers need to be held fully accountable for their actions that led up to the encounter as well as their actions during the encounter.


They simply don't drive into high water and they're not in danger and no rescue personnel has to show up and none of this happens. Not to mention several other choices they could have made to prevent this encounter from going bad.

If said troopers were such a rouge, undisciplined, bad cops they would've shot the guy as soon as he was within 15 feet of them being a jerk. Instead, they waited until they were attacked.


I get there are bad cops. I've been on the wrong of that before.  But if we all want to be victims then we will get our wish and all become victims... just not of the 'good' guys as more and more people figure if they push the cops far enough via disrespect, they'll get out of any trouble they got themselves into leading up to the encounter with the police.
They'll break into your house, beat the crap out of you, do other horrendous things, then ignore the cops orders to stop as they leave your house, get shot, killed, then the police will be on trial and the guy who did all of these bad things to you all of a sudden is the innocent victim in a police plot to shoot all potential bad guys on sight. Next week, his buddies might hit your parents house and get tased by the cops for ignoring them but get off because the PCP he was on caused the taser to give them a heart attack and almost die.



Logged
cannon_fodder
All around good guy.
T-Town Elder
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 9159



« Reply #77 on: June 03, 2015, 01:04:55 pm »

I am critical of the governmental use of power. Police officer's killing citizens is among the most power the government can use.

But if officers identify themselves and make a lawful, and reasonable request, and your response is to physically engage them - it will not end well.

If I, as a private citizen, try were to engage you with a friend and try to help, and you physically attacked my friend and I was armed - it probably wouldn't end well for you.

WD has the right of it. Release the rest of the video. IF it is as it seems, then it is a tragedy all around. The guy must have been frustrated, maybe intoxicated, and didn't take "orders" well. But if he attacked an officer who was engaged in lawful conduct, it is hard to argue that the officer should have just taken a beating.
Logged

- - - - - - - - -
I crush grooves.
heironymouspasparagus
T-Town Elder
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 11111



« Reply #78 on: June 03, 2015, 01:43:06 pm »

But should it be a death sentence?  Seems like more and more lately the dispensation of deadly force is becoming the rule, not the exception.

Shouldn't be but it certainly is an example of evolution in action.  Darwin award to the associate pastor!

Logged

“When you wage war on the public schools, you're attacking the mortar that holds the community together. You're not a conservative, you're a vandal.”    - Garrison Keillor

Use it up, wear it out, make it do, or do without.

What you do speaks so loud, I cannot hear what you say.
patric
T-Town Elder
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 6322


These Aren't the Droids You're Looking For


« Reply #79 on: June 03, 2015, 01:54:31 pm »

WD has the right of it. Release the rest of the video. IF it is as it seems, then it is a tragedy all around. The guy must have been frustrated, maybe intoxicated, and didn't take "orders" well. But if he attacked an officer who was engaged in lawful conduct, it is hard to argue that the officer should have just taken a beating.

Im in agreement.  Seeing the preceding video might put a lot of that behavior into context; withholding it just casts suspicion.
Logged

"Tulsa will lay off police and firemen before we will cut back on unnecessarily wasteful streetlights."  -- March 18, 2009 TulsaNow Forum
Vashta Nerada
Philanthropist
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 956



« Reply #80 on: June 05, 2015, 06:53:29 pm »

I'm sure that Vashta will regard this as a righteous kill of an officer. That he deserved what he got.

http://archive.azcentral.com/community/gilbert/articles/2010/03/25/20100325gr-shuhandler03271.html



Youre' sick.

So Ill match that.  Im starting a rumor that the man killed by the trooper was plotting against police, and staged the water rescue to decapitate unsuspecting rescuers.

Somewhere in the dashcam video he pledged allegiance to ISIS, but since it isnt in the 40-seconds we saw, we should just take the word of the union lawyer.  After all, it certainly seems credible (coming from an official) that the two men charged at the troopers, even if the video really seems to show them just walking.
Logged
Vashta Nerada
Philanthropist
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 956



« Reply #81 on: June 05, 2015, 07:08:17 pm »


40 seconds of one of the 30-minute videos falls short of transparency.  We should also see the 2nd video of the trooper whose microphone wasnt underwater.  How much "preparation" does that require?


Borrowed from another thread ---
“If a video can be shown to some members of the public, then there is no reason to keep it from any members of the public,” said Segal. “And if public officials can hand pick who gets to see a video of someone being killed or harmed by an officer, then they will inevitably make choices that serve public relations interests rather than actual transparency.”

https://www.bostonglobe.com/opinion/2015/06/04/after-usaama-rahim-shooting-ferguson-and-baltimore-police-transparency-requires-open-invitation/MSumEeKrO0oDdYFJdf08VO/story.html
Logged
DolfanBob
City Father
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2885



« Reply #82 on: June 06, 2015, 07:13:19 am »

I wonder how much a Police video editing job pays? Sounds like it would be a good job.  Roll Eyes

And very rewarding.  Wink
Logged

Changing opinions one mistake at a time.
Conan71
Recovering Republican
T-Town Elder
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 28709



« Reply #83 on: June 06, 2015, 08:15:17 pm »

I wonder how much a Police video editing job pays? Sounds like it would be a good job.  Roll Eyes

And very rewarding.  Wink

Hey, it’s just tax payer money!  Grin
Logged

"It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession. I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first” -Ronald Reagan
dbacksfan 2.0
City Father
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1321


« Reply #84 on: June 06, 2015, 11:36:02 pm »

I wonder how much a Police video editing job pays? Sounds like it would be a good job.  Roll Eyes

And very rewarding.  Wink

It pays the same as the job for editing all of the recordings for non-emergency/911 calls, and all the radio traffic. $0.00.
Logged
dbacksfan 2.0
City Father
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1321


« Reply #85 on: June 07, 2015, 03:44:53 am »



Youre' sick.

So Ill match that.  Im starting a rumor that the man killed by the trooper was plotting against police, and staged the water rescue to decapitate unsuspecting rescuers.

Somewhere in the dashcam video he pledged allegiance to ISIS, but since it isnt in the 40-seconds we saw, we should just take the word of the union lawyer.  After all, it certainly seems credible (coming from an official) that the two men charged at the troopers, even if the video really seems to show them just walking.


Yeah, I'm sick of the thrill you get from posting quotes about officer involved shootings, including the Boston Marathon bombers, as the suspects as innocent victims, and your feelings that police are execution squads. Yes there are bad cops, just as there are bad politicians, bankers, lawyers, and taxi drivers. But you seem to take exception to criticize those that have to react in an instant as a bunch of untrained idiots.

Here is a fact for you. In 2012 there was ~12,980,000 arrests in the US by LEO's. Of that number, there was just over 410 reported deaths by lethal force by officers. That's .00003%. And as the article linked relates that's one per day. In a population of 318 million people it's a very small number.

Yes it's tragic that these people lose their lives by their choice.

There was almost three times the murders between Baltimore, Chicago, an Los Angeles alone for the same year at ~1000 for the three combined. Add Detroit and it is three times the number.

http://www.politifact.com/wisconsin/statements/2014/aug/29/edward-flynn/fatal-police-shootings-occur-tiny-percentage-arres/

http://www.city-data.com/crime/crime-Chicago-Illinois.html

http://data.baltimoresun.com/bing-maps/homicides/index.php?range=2012&district=all&zipcode=all&age=all&gender=all&race=all&cause=all&article=all&show_results=Show+results

http://www.city-data.com/crime/crime-Los-Angeles-California.html

http://www.forbes.com/sites/danielfisher/2012/10/18/detroit-tops-the-2012-list-of-americas-most-dangerous-cities/

Yes LEO's make mistakes, and yes there are tragic results from those mistakes, but it seems that you have an agenda with regards to LEO's.
« Last Edit: June 07, 2015, 03:50:55 am by dbacksfan 2.0 » Logged
patric
T-Town Elder
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 6322


These Aren't the Droids You're Looking For


« Reply #86 on: June 07, 2015, 09:56:21 am »

I wonder how much a Police video editing job pays? Sounds like it would be a good job.  Roll Eyes

And very rewarding.  Wink

They outsource it. 

This has led to OHP shipping out dash cam video needed for internal use and criminal investigations to a computer
imaging professional to enhance the image to get the evidence needed.

http://www.fox23.com/news/news/local/ohp-patrol-cars-getting-more-lights/nk4dB

George Lucas' ILM does great light sabers  Wink


Logged

"Tulsa will lay off police and firemen before we will cut back on unnecessarily wasteful streetlights."  -- March 18, 2009 TulsaNow Forum
patric
T-Town Elder
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 6322


These Aren't the Droids You're Looking For


« Reply #87 on: June 07, 2015, 10:18:49 am »

“If a video can be shown to some members of the public, then there is no reason to keep it from any members of the public,” said Segal. “And if public officials can hand pick who gets to see a video of someone being killed or harmed by an officer, then they will inevitably make choices that serve public relations interests rather than actual transparency.”

https://www.bostonglobe.com/opinion/2015/06/04/after-usaama-rahim-shooting-ferguson-and-baltimore-police-transparency-requires-open-invitation/MSumEeKrO0oDdYFJdf08VO/story.html


Is that how it works? 
OK, here's my Transparency-by-Invitation invitation:  The cherry-picked clip we saw apparently exhibited a classic "fed up" response from the stranded men, a cullumnation of goading and prodding that elicites a pedictable reaction.

If that's wrong, its easy enough to find out.  I understand the Tulsa World and The Frontier have expressed an interest in the unedited, unredacted, unenhanced complete set of videos, so...
Logged

"Tulsa will lay off police and firemen before we will cut back on unnecessarily wasteful streetlights."  -- March 18, 2009 TulsaNow Forum
TeeDub
City Father
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1101


WWW
« Reply #88 on: June 07, 2015, 12:40:58 pm »


If your "fed up" response involves tackling a man with a gun, you have made a grave mistake.
Logged

 
Vashta Nerada
Philanthropist
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 956



« Reply #89 on: June 07, 2015, 07:30:07 pm »


Here is a fact for you. In 2012 there was ~12,980,000 arrests in the US by LEO's. Of that number, there was just over 410 reported deaths by lethal force by officers. That's .00003%. And as the article linked relates that's one per day. In a population of 318 million people it's a very small number.

Yes it's tragic that these people lose their lives by their choice.


Your numbers were debunked long ago:

At least 385 people shot and killed by police nationwide during the first five months of this year, more than two a day, according to a Washington Post analysis. That is more than twice the rate of fatal police shootings tallied by the federal government over the past decade, a count that officials concede is incomplete.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/fatal-police-shootings-in-2015-approaching-400-nationwide/2015/05/30/d322256a-058e-11e5-a428-c984eb077d4e_story.html


Maybe when you are through copsterbating we can have a serious discussion as to why someone ended up dead in this hillbilly holocaust.
Logged
Pages: 1 ... 4 5 [6] 7 8 9   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

 
  Hosted by TulsaConnect and Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines
 

Mission

 

"TulsaNow's Mission is to help Tulsa become the most vibrant, diverse, sustainable and prosperous city of our size. We achieve this by focusing on the development of Tulsa's distinctive identity and economic growth around a dynamic, urban core, complemented by a constellation of livable, thriving communities."
more...

 

Contact

 

2210 S Main St.
Tulsa, OK 74114
(918) 409-2669
info@tulsanow.org