Forget about Major League Soccer; USL1 at the old ballpark

[USRufnex]

FORGET.  ABOUT.  MLS.

There.  I said it.  All better.

I wince at saying the word "never," but MLS will never choose Tulsa as an expansion team.... and barring a devastating hurricane that forces the Houston Dynamo to relocate to Tulsa for a couple of seasons... or the financial collapse and relocation of teams from Dallas or KC (picking Tulsa over St. Louis?)... a team is just not gonna  happen here anytime soon..... 

I mean, does Tulsa have a well heeled, deep pocketed local ownership group like KC's OnGoal LLC waiting in the wings for that kind of "opportunity?"  http://www.oursportscentral.com/services/releases/?id=3371737

OnGoal LLC is losing money hand over fist right now because they're stuck playing at a minor league ballpark until their 18,500 seat stadium at Bannister Mall is constructed-- http://www.bizjournals.com/kansascity/stories/2009/06/15/focus3.html ...  So, any suggestion that an MLS team can play at the new ballpark or the fairgrounds on anything other than a temporary basis is wrong.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Here is the viable option:

http://www.uslsoccer.com/

One notch below Major League Soccer, the league's top men's division (USL-1) lost Toronto to MLS a couple of years ago; they lost the Seattle Sounders to MLS this year..... they will lose Portland and Vancouver to MLS in 2011 and rumor has it Montreal will move up to MLS as well......

Tulsa had the equivalent of a USL-2 men's team here in the late 90s.... they played at multiple high school stadium venues under the "Roughnecks" moniker and drew roughly 1,000 fans per game.... then in 2001, the Luettes (sp?) from Thrifty bought a USL second division W-league team called the "Oklahoma Outrage" -- named because their daughter was outraged that the Roughnecks didn't have a team for girls.... that team drew a few hundred fans per game over at Metro Christian's stadium, but also  hosted the New York WUSA team for an exhibition game that drew 4500 fans over at the BA high school stadium....

USL wants USL-1 teams in San Antonio, OKC and Tulsa to go with the Austin team started this year....  http://www.crocketteers.com/2009/05/24/the-san-antonio-spurs-are-actually-bringing-a-team-to-san-antonio-in-the-next-year-or-two/

IMHO, if the USL had their druthers, I believe they'd like to see Chuck Lamson agree to own and operate a USL-1 team and share digs downtown with the Drillers.  Even though I'm sure Lamson was polite about it, he declined... although I'm not sure how serious any discussions were since they dated back to last year.

The league would be very interested in playing at the old Driller Park in either 2010 or 2011.... 2010 is doubtful since there doesn't seem to be an organization in Tulsa with the kind of expertise to pull it off that quickly.  But the county can help out alot - by simply not bulldozing the stadium.....

Here are some selling points for USL-1 soccer at the fairgounds:

1)  This league has average crowds of around 4,500 fans per game, so the 11,000 seat capacity at the old ballpark would be ideal.
2)  The league wants its USL-1 teams to be "first tenant" whenever possible.
3)  Very little renovation would need to be done; sightlines could be better if the 1st base and 3rd base stands were closer to 90-degree angles, but there's no compelling need to move the stands around.  The important choices would be between the higher maintenance costs of a grass field versus a rubber-based synthetic turf (NeXturf or Field Turf).
4)  A Tulsa team would likely have at least 1-2 exhibition or Open Cup games against MLS opponents every year.
5)  USL-1 has benchmarks for their venue standards (not required but ideal)-- the ballpark at the fairgrounds comes closest to fulfilling these benchmarks....
Seating type:  50% individual, 50% bleacher with back.
Parking:  1:4 spaces for fans.  VIP Area:  6 suites/luxury boxes.
Broadcasting Booths:  4. Phone lines/Wifi:  3.
6)  USL-1 expansion fee is about one-tenth the fee for WNBA and around one-fortieth the expansion fee being paid to MLS these days.
7)  About 20 home dates per year.  So, the proposed venue could also be used for higher profile TU or ORU college soccer games/tourneys or for a women's team.  The Mexican National Women's team played a Tulsa semi-pro team last month.... in Sapulpa... who knew?  I didn't.  No lines on the field... could be used to host sports like rugby and lacrosse? 

---Bottom line:  I'm skeptical when anybody talks about building a 20k capacity  "multi-use" stadium on the west bank of the Arkansas between two oil refineries.  What kind of road access?  Would 15,000+ Tulsans pay $10 - $25 a pop to cross a bridge to watch and smell a game?  Dunno, but if a USL-1 team starts out at the fairgrounds, maybe those Branson people can build something cool in exchange for getting a TIF district approved... and I guess the smell of an oil refinery while watching a team called the "Roughnecks" would have its own unique appeal.... soccer moms be damned...   

Puerto Rico Islanders USL-1 venue, built in 1974 with a capacity of 12,500.


    
Tim Holt Q & A - Part One
Friday, February 22, 2008
http://www.uslsoccer.com/insider/229134.html
A short list of markets from which we believe a USL-1 franchise could be successful with the proper ownership and venue include, but are not limited to (in no specific order): Omaha (NE), Tulsa (OK), San Antonio (TX), Tampa (FL), Phoenix (AZ), Boise (ID), Oklahoma City (OK), Albuquerque (NM), Memphis (TN), and Birmingham (AL) We are currently in advanced discussions with interested parties in several of these markets.

[RecycleMichael]

I am with you.

I have been watching the USL1 ganes on the soccer channel and think it is a perfect fit for Tulsa. It would be like having a AAA team in baseball. I also think that a soccer stadium in the footprint of the old Drillers stadium makes sense.

Great idea.

 

[FOTD]

I am with you.

I have been watching the USL1 ganes on the soccer channel and think it is a perfect fit for Tulsa. It would be like having a AAA team in baseball. I also think that a soccer stadium in the footprint of the old Drillers stadium makes sense.

Great idea.

 

YES.

[Conan71]

What about that pesky rumor about Cabella's and the "old" ball park?  I think we've got a wave pool and some slides I'd rather sell them.

[FOTD]

What about that pesky rumor about Cabella's and the "old" ball park?  I think we've got a wave pool and some slides I'd rather sell them.

Cabellas? Maybe a CVS at $60 a sq. ft.? Nah....

The commishies would be doing great harm to our fairgrounds outparceling the ballpark. This does not seem like an option. But it does seem logical to do the chlorine pond in since they screwed up that part of their site with Ralph Jones' Motel. Remember when it was a batting range and go carts?

Move big splash to the east end! (go carts and batting cages?)

[Conan71]

Cabellas? Maybe a CVS at $60 a sq. ft.? Nah....

The commishies would be doing great harm to our fairgrounds outparceling the ballpark. This does not seem like an option. But it does seem logical to do the chlorine pond in since they screwed up that part of their site with Ralph Jones' Motel. Remember when it was a batting range and go carts?

Move big splash to the east end! (go carts and batting cages?)

Oh great God Devil Of Development, you did not hear about the rumored Cabella's theme park?

[MDepr2007]

We have more residents from south of the border than when the Roughnecks played. Attendance should be up just from that as interest in soccer is higher south of the border. The turnout for the unadvertized Mexican Womens soccer game in Sapulpa last month proves that.
Getting the media to cover soccer stories would also help . I saw no coverage of the TU womens soccer team playing in Spain last weekend when they beat one of the top Spain teams.

[cannon_fodder]

Per the fairgrounds, lets review the last 5 years:

Bell's gone and leveled to be "more than just a parking lot."  It is, of curse, just a parking lot.

Driller's gone.

66ers gone.

Horse track had a brand new building essentially attached to it, but no improvements to the building itself.

Big Splash has had no improvements in those 5 years but for repainting the slides (they are apparently not refinished as it is still possible to stall on them if you aren't careful).  They sometimes pay their rent.  My hometown in Iowa (read: shorter season, 1/8th the population) has a much better water park.  And that's just sad.
- - -

I love Expo Square. I think it is a fantastic asset.  The massive renovations they have done are great.  It is a highly used facility and contributes greatly to Tulsa.    But they had better consider ALL options and have a long term plan when deciding what to put in there.

My concern with a USL1 franchise is that it wouldn't be seen as "major league."  It is another lower class team that no one outside of franchise cities cares about.  Does that really matter?  I don't know - but it would be a concern.

I do think Tulsa has the demographics to support a soccer franchise of some kind.  Of course, as it stands the University of Tulsa has a highly ranked soccer program and plays other highly ranked teams and no one, I mean NO ONE attends those games - which are usually free.  So maybe soccer as a spectator sport isn't quite right (or maybe TU sucks at promoting it?).

Bah!  I appreciate your passion for this issue Rufnex.  But I'm no so much concerned about the soccer as I am about using the fairgrounds wisely.  If a team would bring some activity to that area and use that space I'd be all for it. 

[FOTD]

Per the fairgrounds, lets review the last 5 years:

Bell's gone and leveled to be "more than just a parking lot."  It is, of curse, just a parking lot.

Driller's gone.

66ers gone.

Horse track had a brand new building essentially attached to it, but no improvements to the building itself.

Big Splash has had no improvements in those 5 years but for repainting the slides (they are apparently not refinished as it is still possible to stall on them if you aren't careful).  They sometimes pay their rent.  My hometown in Iowa (read: shorter season, 1/8th the population) has a much better water park.  And that's just sad.
- - -

I love Expo Square. I think it is a fantastic asset.  The massive renovations they have done are great.  It is a highly used facility and contributes greatly to Tulsa.    But they had better consider ALL options and have a long term plan when deciding what to put in there.

My concern with a USL1 franchise is that it wouldn't be seen as "major league."  It is another lower class team that no one outside of franchise cities cares about.  Does that really matter?  I don't know - but it would be a concern.

I do think Tulsa has the demographics to support a soccer franchise of some kind.  Of course, as it stands the University of Tulsa has a highly ranked soccer program and plays other highly ranked teams and no one, I mean NO ONE attends those games - which are usually free.  So maybe soccer as a spectator sport isn't quite right (or maybe TU sucks at promoting it?).

Bah!  I appreciate your passion for this issue Rufnex.  But I'm no so much concerned about the soccer as I am about using the fairgrounds wisely.  If a team would bring some activity to that area and use that space I'd be all for it. 

CF, What do they do with the Armory? Saw Keith and sharon KING davis touring it....what becomes of that baby? Sock hops?

[brianh]

I contend people would be much more willing to go see a minor league soccer team than a Tulsa University game. There is an elitist stigma that is associated with TU that makes many Tulsa citizens stay away. I would like to see a Tulsa soccer team named something other than the Roughnecks though, something like Tulsa United would be really nice. The extra parking at that location would be really nice.

[FOTD]

I contend people would be much more willing to go see a minor league soccer team than a Tulsa University game. There is an elitist stigma that is associated with TU that makes many Tulsa citizens stay away. I would like to see a Tulsa soccer team named something other than the Roughnecks though, something like Tulsa United would be really nice. The extra parking at that location would be really nice.

Tulsa Rednecks would be more on target and the rest the nation would find the name fitting.

[cannon_fodder]

There is an elitist stigma that is associated with TU that makes many Tulsa citizens stay away.

More people go to Tulsa Football or Tulsa Basketball games than the 66ers or the Talons.  Hence my concern.  Though, I wholeheartedly agree that TU needs to do what Memphis, Boise State, and several other schools have done and market themselves as TULSA'S UNIVERSITY to grow a fan base and more community support (and in turn, provide more community support themselves).

[MDepr2007]

How many even know of the women's premier soccer team "Tulsa Spirit" ?

[we vs us]

Franchise teams have big (relative to university) marketing budgets.  You don't hear about U soccer almost solely because it isn't marketed.  Certainly not because of the quality of the play or the cheapness of the tickets. 

I admit to not understanding ALL of the economics of small-market pro sports teams, especially when we're talking about a sport like soccer whose pro teams are still in a bit of a struggle for mainstream acceptance.  On the other hand, I felt the same way about the Oilers, and have been pleasantly surprised to see that they have a solid fanbase (and thus business).

[USRufnex]

Gotta admit, it's hard to keep track of the amateur and semi-pro soccer startups in Tulsa.... Tulsa Spirit(women's outdoor)?  Tulsa Revolution (men's indoor)?  Oklahoma Falcons?  Oklahoma Outrage? etc, etc... the ones I know of play (or played) at the Union 7th&8th Grade Center, which is a nice grass field and all, but hardly the kind of high profile location that would attract a more mainstream following....

FYI, Driller Park was once used by the Roughnecks in the summer of 1985.  They played an exhibition season there after the NASL died the winter of 84/85.... here's a great pic of the original ballpark
"Sutton Stadium, still under construction on December 20, 1980......  On April 16, 1981 the 4,800 seat stadium opened.  When Sutton Stadium opened it had an artificial surface and was used for high school football and soccer."

***btw, new page on my website-- almost completed.....

http://www.tulsaroughnecks.com/Scores___Crowds_1978-84.html