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Author Topic: SINGLE PAYER IS THE ONLY HEALTHY SOLUTION  (Read 39030 times)
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« Reply #30 on: June 14, 2009, 12:34:13 pm »

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guido911
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« Reply #31 on: June 14, 2009, 01:06:35 pm »

Harry Reid compares the public option to the U.S. Postal Service. The quality of public health care is going to be the same as getting the mail. What a relief. I guess this is what we can expect:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WTz8rKJk-Vw[/youtube]
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« Reply #32 on: June 14, 2009, 02:49:28 pm »

Harry Reid compares the public option to the U.S. Postal Service. The quality of public health care is going to be the same as getting the mail. What a relief.
Are you living in the past? The mail is pretty darn reliable and reasonably quick and very inexpensive. Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good.
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« Reply #33 on: June 14, 2009, 03:53:47 pm »

Harry Reid compares the public option to the U.S. Postal Service. The quality of public health care is going to be the same as getting the mail. What a relief. I guess this is what we can expect:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WTz8rKJk-Vw[/youtube]

The quality of health care depends on the medical community.

The government eliminates the crooks in the insurance industry (who are in cahoots with litigators).

KISS
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« Reply #34 on: June 14, 2009, 06:23:53 pm »

Are you living in the past? The mail is pretty darn reliable and reasonably quick and very inexpensive. Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good.

Have you been pounding aox's bong? The USPS is operating in massive deficits and has or is about to lay off 25K people. Doesn't sound like a very successful business model.
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FOTD
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« Reply #35 on: June 14, 2009, 08:57:54 pm »

[youtube]http://youbetyourhealth.com/ [/youtube]

Play: You Bet Your Health - game
http://youbetyourhealth.com/
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« Reply #36 on: June 15, 2009, 09:01:00 am »

Warning:  long post with actual facts.

Here's what we know:

1) Americans spend 50% more per capita than the next highest country.

2) The US lead's "developed nations" in medical error rate.

3) The US is 50th in the World in life expectancy.

4) The US is 46th in the world for infant mortality.


We have THE MOST expensive system in the world with the highest error rate rendering among the worst results in the developed world.  How is that an acceptable system?  Will the government do better as a single payer?  Probably not, but at least admit the above is NOT acceptable.



Now lets bust some myths:

1) Malpractice suits are responsible driving up the cost of health care.

The United States spends about $2,500,000,000,000.00 ($2.5 TRILLION dollars) a year on health care.  In a given year about 14,000 payments are made on judgments or to settle malpractice claims, totaling approximately $3.7 Billion.  Or about 0.1% of the United States health care expenditures.  (Kaiser Family Foundation numbers)

0.1%?  Really?  We are supposed to believe that the .1% is the driving force behind out health care cost crisis.  I don't care if you argue twice, three times, or ten times that amount is spent to defend the suits - it still doesn't equal a meaningful portion of medical expenses in this country.  Yet listening to the debate you'd think this is among the driving forces.

To say that again, insurance payouts for medical malpractice total 0.1% of total medical expenses in the United States.

2) Pharmaceutical costs are driving our expenses.

The cost of drugs represented 8.5% of our total expenses in 2006.  That is a lot and much of it was on "penis pills" and other non-essential medication.  But certainly essential medications like HIV drugs, cancer drugs, and other required pharmaceuticals are very expenses. 

However, at 8.5% of total expenditures it seems unlikely that such costs are the primary driver of medical costs.

3) Physicians are impoverished.

Medical doctors are represent 22% of all medical expenses, or about $550,000,000,000.00 ($550 Billion) per year.  The average MD makes $170,000.

For medical malpractice insurance the average MD pays just over 10% of wages for malpractice insurance (as low as 6% for family practice as high as 20% for anesthesiologists, also 5% of MDs are responsible for 54% of claims).  That's a ton of money, but that leaves the average MD taking home $151,300 a year after insurance premiums, or 4.5 times the wage of the average patient.

Extrapolating those numbers out it leads to $55,000,000,000 a year in malpractice insurance, of which $3.7 Billion ends up in the hands of victims of medical malpractice (and their attorneys).  Incidentally, Med Mal insurance is usually the most profitable division of an insurance company and Med Mal defense is among the most profitable practices of law.  The insurance companies and defense firms are getting a TON more money (about 1200% more) than victims or Plaintiff's counsel.   I'm not demonizing this division of wealth, but questioning why Med Mal plaintiffs are seen as the cost drivers when they end up with less than 10% of the pot.

Doctors have worked very hard to get into a good college.  They compete strongly to get into medical school.  Then they work for a decent wage for a few more years before they make "the big bucks."  At which point they can pay off their school debts.  They earn their money, but to pretend that they are somehow suffering financial difficulties when they make more than 4 fold the average wage earner is misleading.

Note: this is NOT an argument that MDs should earn less.  But MDs salary constitutes 22% of the expense and malpractice payouts constitute 0.1% of the cost.  Listening to the debate passively one would get the opposite impression.


As a side note, the AMA lobbied the government to pay medical colleges NOT to accept students in order to reduce the number of medical doctors in the 1990's.  The feds agreed and dolled out tens of millions of dollars to medical colleges to reduce the supply of doctors.  Predictably, the number of doctors dropped, competition among doctors was eliminated, prices went up, and quality (as measure by errors) went down.

Why are medical doctors the only field in which "qualified" doesn't mean qualified?  A combination of politics, economics, and traditions determines how many medical doctors this country will produce and how many we will import - always insuring a shortage of Medical Doctors.  Demand isn't a primary factor in the equation and competition is capped at the front end.



We have a system in which you need to have a man who makes $160,000 a year sign off on a piece of paper that your penis can't get hard in order for you to get a pill.  Now, the nurse (if anyone) will be the one to look at your penis.  To take down all your information and to do any other checks.  Many MDs will come in for 40 seconds and chat, sign off and leave (not blaming them, in many instances their time is wasted on such things and they act more as a medical supervisor).  It's a waste of resources when that MD could be doing something that utilizes and challenges his medical knowledge.

Then we have a system that highlights a division of labor.  A patient typically has many doctors if something is actually wrong.   It is amazingly difficult for a person, even a doctor, to keep track of that much information and do their job well.  There are times when a specialist is needed for damn sure - but often a good GP will have more complete knowledge of the patient.  But when a specialist can earn an extra $100,000 a year, GPs are fewer and fewer. 

Add to that an insurance system that has, for some reason, become synonymous with "I don't have to pay my medical bills."  It usually doesn't reward healthy lifestyles or annual checkups.  It doesn't punish frivolous use most of the time.  And with the employer pay system the cost is a sunk cost that Americans never see (hence: it doesn't exist).  Unless you don't have insurance, then your screwed.  Why not have a system with a 25% or even 50% copay for items less than $200 and major medical coverage with a 10% copay up to $10,000 and a 1% copay over that?  Add an incentive for an annual (or every other year, or whatever is appropriate at your age/health).  Add incentives for reaching certain health guidelines (weight, BP, cholesterol) by giving discounts just like car insurance (no tickets = good risk.  Not obese = good risk).   You know - encourage people financially to be healthier or pay the price.

Which brings us to the root cause:  Americans are lazy.  We are too lazy to be healthy.  We are too lazy to pay attention to our health insurance cost (as long as the cost is/was hidden, we're fine).  And our leaders are too lazy to actually address real problems.

Bah!

/frustration
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« Reply #37 on: June 15, 2009, 09:14:37 am »

Warning:  long post with actual facts.

Here's what we know:

1) Americans spend 50% more per capita than the next highest country.

2) The US lead's "developed nations" in medical error rate.

3) The US is 50th in the World in life expectancy.

4) The US is 46th in the world for infant mortality.


We have THE MOST expensive system in the world with the highest error rate rendering among the worst results in the developed world.  How is that an acceptable system?  Will the government do better as a single payer?  Probably not, but at least admit the above is NOT acceptable.



Now lets bust some myths:

1) Malpractice suits are responsible driving up the cost of health care.

The United States spends about $2,500,000,000,000.00 ($2.5 TRILLION dollars) a year on health care.  In a given year about 14,000 payments are made on judgments or to settle malpractice claims, totaling approximately $3.7 Billion.  Or about 0.1% of the United States health care expenditures.  (Kaiser Family Foundation numbers)

0.1%?  Really?  We are supposed to believe that the .1% is the driving force behind out health care cost crisis.  I don't care if you argue twice, three times, or ten times that amount is spent to defend the suits - it still doesn't equal a meaningful portion of medical expenses in this country.  Yet listening to the debate you'd think this is among the driving forces.

To say that again, insurance payouts for medical malpractice total 0.1% of total medical expenses in the United States.

2) Pharmaceutical costs are driving our expenses.

The cost of drugs represented 8.5% of our total expenses in 2006.  That is a lot and much of it was on "penis pills" and other non-essential medication.  But certainly essential medications like HIV drugs, cancer drugs, and other required pharmaceuticals are very expenses. 

However, at 8.5% of total expenditures it seems unlikely that such costs are the primary driver of medical costs.

3) Physicians are impoverished.

Medical doctors are represent 22% of all medical expenses, or about $550,000,000,000.00 ($550 Billion) per year.  The average MD makes $170,000.

For medical malpractice insurance the average MD pays just over 10% of wages for malpractice insurance (as low as 6% for family practice as high as 20% for anesthesiologists, also 5% of MDs are responsible for 54% of claims).  That's a ton of money, but that leaves the average MD taking home $151,300 a year after insurance premiums, or 4.5 times the wage of the average patient.

Extrapolating those numbers out it leads to $55,000,000,000 a year in malpractice insurance, of which $3.7 Billion ends up in the hands of victims of medical malpractice (and their attorneys).  Incidentally, Med Mal insurance is usually the most profitable division of an insurance company and Med Mal defense is among the most profitable practices of law.  The insurance companies and defense firms are getting a TON more money (about 1200% more) than victims or Plaintiff's counsel.   I'm not demonizing this division of wealth, but questioning why Med Mal plaintiffs are seen as the cost drivers when they end up with less than 10% of the pot.

Doctors have worked very hard to get into a good college.  They compete strongly to get into medical school.  Then they work for a decent wage for a few more years before they make "the big bucks."  At which point they can pay off their school debts.  They earn their money, but to pretend that they are somehow suffering financial difficulties when they make more than 4 fold the average wage earner is misleading.

Note: this is NOT an argument that MDs should earn less.  But MDs salary constitutes 22% of the expense and malpractice payouts constitute 0.1% of the cost.  Listening to the debate passively one would get the opposite impression.


As a side note, the AMA lobbied the government to pay medical colleges NOT to accept students in order to reduce the number of medical doctors in the 1990's.  The feds agreed and dolled out tens of millions of dollars to medical colleges to reduce the supply of doctors.  Predictably, the number of doctors dropped, competition among doctors was eliminated, prices went up, and quality (as measure by errors) went down.

Why are medical doctors the only field in which "qualified" doesn't mean qualified?  A combination of politics, economics, and traditions determines how many medical doctors this country will produce and how many we will import - always insuring a shortage of Medical Doctors.  Demand isn't a primary factor in the equation and competition is capped at the front end.



We have a system in which you need to have a man who makes $160,000 a year sign off on a piece of paper that your penis can't get hard in order for you to get a pill.  Now, the nurse (if anyone) will be the one to look at your penis.  To take down all your information and to do any other checks.  Many MDs will come in for 40 seconds and chat, sign off and leave (not blaming them, in many instances their time is wasted on such things and they act more as a medical supervisor).  It's a waste of resources when that MD could be doing something that utilizes and challenges his medical knowledge.

Then we have a system that highlights a division of labor.  A patient typically has many doctors if something is actually wrong.   It is amazingly difficult for a person, even a doctor, to keep track of that much information and do their job well.  There are times when a specialist is needed for damn sure - but often a good GP will have more complete knowledge of the patient.  But when a specialist can earn an extra $100,000 a year, GPs are fewer and fewer. 

Add to that an insurance system that has, for some reason, become synonymous with "I don't have to pay my medical bills."  It usually doesn't reward healthy lifestyles or annual checkups.  It doesn't punish frivolous use most of the time.  And with the employer pay system the cost is a sunk cost that Americans never see (hence: it doesn't exist).  Unless you don't have insurance, then your screwed.  Why not have a system with a 25% or even 50% copay for items less than $200 and major medical coverage with a 10% copay up to $10,000 and a 1% copay over that?  Add an incentive for an annual (or every other year, or whatever is appropriate at your age/health).  Add incentives for reaching certain health guidelines (weight, BP, cholesterol) by giving discounts just like car insurance (no tickets = good risk.  Not obese = good risk).   You know - encourage people financially to be healthier or pay the price.

Which brings us to the root cause:  Americans are lazy.  We are too lazy to be healthy.  We are too lazy to pay attention to our health insurance cost (as long as the cost is/was hidden, we're fine).  And our leaders are too lazy to actually address real problems.

Bah!

/frustration


Ouch! Flashlight, can of Raid.

As usual you have to ruin a perfectly good thread with truth and statistics. 

Unfortunately, reason is no match for "I want a pony!".

Nice try, but on this one I believe that we will all lose.  This is about control, not health. 

Straight out of the handbook.

The state must first control the industry, then transportation, and finally health and well-being.  We are moving quickly.  The trees outside the window are a blur.
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« Reply #38 on: June 15, 2009, 09:47:05 am »

CF, Have you been reading your ABA, ATLA, and OTLA circulars again?
 Wink

Seriously, you base your contention that med mal lawsuits are not responsible for high medical expenses based upon paid out settlements? What about those lawsuits that never get settled or where a doctor has to proceed to trial for vindication? What about those costs? Or how about the time that a doctor that is a victim of a frivolous lawsuit has to waste in answering discovery, appearing at depos, or sitting at the table at trial? Or how about the countless hours a doc expends in having to listen to lawyers lecture them about risk management, charting, or patient relations in order to head off lawsuits?

Now, you know I have a vested interest in med mal tort reform. With that said, here is a line of work I would like to get into since most judges in this state will do nothing to punish frivolous filings:

http://www.physiciansnews.com/law/403post.html

As for a doctor's salary, I have always thought that no other profession on the planet should earn more than a doc. Seriously, how much is your life or the life of your child worth? The military spends millions of dollars in safety features on airplanes, ships, tanks, and whatever to preserve the life of the soldier. To me, that demonstrates that the value of that human life is millions of dollars. I know it might be unpopular in this thread, but docs do save lives every day but do not collect the sort of salary that many believe docs earn. Instead, we pay golfers millions of dollars to hit a little ball into a cup and pay millions of dollars to Oprah to praddle on about what books she likes to read. 
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cannon_fodder
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« Reply #39 on: June 15, 2009, 10:31:58 am »

Guido:

1) First, I explicitly stated that I was not advocating that MDs are not worth what they are paid.  As far as professions are concerned, they are THE highest paid in the nation, reflecting the value we place on our health care (health care != health).  While a few professional golfers earn multimillions, most earn a meager living and eventually get another job.

Second, if we are basing salaries on the value of human life, bus drivers, airline pilots, water supply security guards and the like should earn hundreds of thousands.  On a given day a bus driver has many multiples of the number of lives in their hands as a given MD.  We'll call it "preventative care."  I realize the argument is absurd, but pay is based on supply and demand and NOT the real value of the service performed.

Certainly it takes great qualifications to be an MD.  But with the AMA and Congress controlling supply it is hard to place a market value on those services.  No doubt they are, would be, and should be highly paid professionals.  And no doubt they are, would be, and should be a significant portion of the cost of health care in this country.  But I don't understand why such a significant cost isn't part of the equation whenever health care cost is discussed.

2) No.  I haven't read the ABA, ATLA or OTLA circulars on the issue.  As you can see by my links, I just grabbed sources off of the internet.  I used to be against any government interference in health care, but after researching the issue it appears SOMETHING needs to be done (bearing in mind that I think the government largely contributed to creating the problem with tax incentives, medicaid, and medicare. . . so I am leery of a truly governmental solution).

But yes, my contention is that med mal lawsuits are not a primary driver of higher medical expenses.  Lets play with some numbers to prove a point.  Lets pretend that:

a) Only 10% of med-mal lawsuits end in a settlement or judgment (as you know a low number). 

b) That each of those non-paying events costs as much as if they lost the suit.


With our new assumption we take the actual number and multiply it by TEN FOLD, we get 1% of total health care costs.   So even if all filed suits resulted in a payout as if there was a fight to get it, we would have 1% our our nationals health care costs explained.  Lets take it times 20 and get 2%.  How about 50?  Then we are up to a whopping 5% of our health care costs for med mal. 

Sorry, it just doesn't make sense.  If it cost that much to defend these suits you'd be better off settling every one filed on an administrative basis.  That doesn't happen because it is cost effective to fight them, largely because perusing a med mal case costs tens of thousands of dollars even if it is clear cut (sponge left in patient after surgery).

You will note I did NOT take into account hours spent by people learning about procedure, charting and patient relations because that is part of the best practices of a medical group wanting to avoid errors.  I also didn't count continuing training hours or preventative procedures.  Things which should be done to ensure safety, not to avoid lawsuits.

Again, we have THE WORST MEDICAL ERROR RATE in the developed world.  If lawsuits are responsible for hospital safety procedures "being so strict" then we need to double our lawsuits.   More lawsuits are of course NOT the answer, but if the safety measures to prevent medical errors are a result of lawsuits I'd scared of what would happen if they went away.

3) I have repeatedly agreed with you that frivolous suits need to be thrown out.  Judges are supposed to be the gate keepers, if they throw out a good suit you can appeal.  If a suit needs discovery to find out if it has merit, then grant it.  But when it is apparent that there is no suit then it is the attorneys duty to drop the suit.
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brianh
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« Reply #40 on: June 15, 2009, 11:55:25 am »

As someone who doesn't know anything about the health care industry, for what reason would I care about the profits of insurers(other than not seeing a bunch of people laid off)? The prices for health coverage are artificially inflated because of insurance companies, who's services you are forced to use(you can't reasonably expect not to have insurance). So aside from maintaining the great tradition of capitalism, what is my benefit for not wanting single payer?
« Last Edit: June 15, 2009, 11:57:42 am by brianh » Logged
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« Reply #41 on: June 15, 2009, 12:25:43 pm »

You and I are getting at this from differing perpsectives. I have worked in the health care field, am married to a professional in the health care field, and am an attorney that has defended med mal lawsuits for years. As to the latter, I can think of only one that had any merit.  ONE! In defending those actions, insurance companies pay tens of thousands of dollars for lawyers, experts, document production, and related expenses. Doctors lose time and money in having to participate in the proceeding. So, it's not just about the direct cost of the lawsuit, it's the loss in productivity by a doc that cannot be measured.

My conservative bona fides be damned because I do support some health care reform but it must include tort reform as well. But my problem is the entitlement mentality people have with regards to health care which is why I am not pushing very hard. Here's a story: 

Several years ago my wife was driving home following a night shift and witnessed a truck roll over onto a smaller pickup. She pulls over and, with the help of bystanders, extricated the driver of the smaller truck and performed medical treatment that probably saved that driver's leg and perhaps his life given the amount of blood he had lost. Not so much as a "thank you", and she didn't care. I was super proud of her heroism, though.

There are stories like this out there all the time involving docs, but we are more interested in being critical.

I have been out of the loop lately. I did not know Henry signed a tort reform bill:

http://www.ama-assn.org/amednews/2009/06/08/prsb0608.htm
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« Reply #42 on: June 15, 2009, 12:55:45 pm »

Cannon, just curious what your uncle thinks.  He's a well-respected doc and has a grasp on the admin side of the field.  What's he saying about the issue?  Bruno??  Anyone else with an MD or DO care to chime in?
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« Reply #43 on: June 15, 2009, 02:08:58 pm »



I have been out of the loop lately. I did not know Henry signed a tort reform bill:

http://www.ama-assn.org/amednews/2009/06/08/prsb0608.htm

Lately?

Democrats’ hype about health care reform will hurt them
http://www.pnhp.org/blog/2009/06/04/democrats’-hype-about-health-care-reform-will-hurt-them/

 Obama’s response, essentially, was that single-payer is off the table because the insurance industry is too powerful to beat, and there are other ways to cut health care costs that don’t require implementing a single-payer system. He is wrong on both counts.


But then Obama went on to imply that we don’t need a single-payer system to cut costs. “There are ways that we can drive down costs,” he said. He cited three ways: greater use of preventive services, (not by making insurance companies pay for them, but by changing the way doctors are paid); electronic medical records; and a public program to compete with private insurers. The first two ideas are straight out of the insurance industry’s hymnal. The third idea, the proposed public program (which its advocates now refer to as “the public option”) will either quickly morph into a single-payer or it will accomplish little or no cost containment.


Obama wants a public option because he believes over time it will become the only option and thus segue into single payer.

 The cost of smoking is not higher health care costs, it's earlier death.

* Obonga.jpg (76.86 KB - downloaded 156 times.)
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« Reply #44 on: June 15, 2009, 02:27:53 pm »

You and I are getting at this from differing perpsectives. I have worked in the health care field, am married to a professional in the health care field, and am an attorney that has defended med mal lawsuits for years. As to the latter, I can think of only one that had any merit.  ONE! In defending those actions, insurance companies pay tens of thousands of dollars for lawyers, experts, document production, and related expenses. Doctors lose time and money in having to participate in the proceeding. So, it's not just about the direct cost of the lawsuit, it's the loss in productivity by a doc that cannot be measured.

My conservative bona fides be damned because I do support some health care reform but it must include tort reform as well. But my problem is the entitlement mentality people have with regards to health care which is why I am not pushing very hard. Here's a story: 

 . . .

There are stories like this out there all the time involving docs, but we are more interested in being critical.

. . .

I have been out of the loop lately. I did not know Henry signed a tort reform bill:

1) I'm glad your wife is a decent person.  But it doesn't change my perspective on health care because an MD does what a decent society would expect.  I also concur that too many people don't do what is decent and that it was crappy for the guy not to thank her or do anything.  I have never argued that Doctors are horrible people.

2) Yes, Henry signed the industry serving reform.  It does NOTHING for health care in Oklahoma but-for saving the insurance companies money in settlements.  For perspective, the State of Oklahoma is subsidizing the salaries of the Thunder for about as much money as is paid out in Med Mal suits in Oklahoma in a year (per Kaiser foundation).  We have had this discussion in other threads (where you admitted the bill is solely serving the insurance companies).

About $20 per person is paid out in Med Mal awards each year in the State of Oklahoma. Or about $60,000,000.

To support our prison population we spent $477,576,000.  Or nearly 8 TIMES as much, nearly $160 per person. But based on the time allocation of our legislature, it is the $20 per person we pay in extra medical costs to cover med mal that is bringing Oklahoma down.  Too bad there isn't an insurance industry lobbying to bring down the cost of putting people in prison . . .

(slight tangent, but I just read that prison stat last night)

3)

A. All aspects of med mal added together are STILL not significant.

The entirety of med mal insurance in the United States is $55,000,000,000 a year.  All in.  That includes profits and money to defend lawsuits as well as actual payouts (payouts are 6.7% of the total cost of med mal insurance).  That's about 2% of our health care budget going to med mal premiums.  Throw in all the extra time, procedures, or whatever else you want.  We can DOUBLE the cost and we're not even to 5%.

I can tell you that most industries pay insurance based on gross receipts.  From workers comp to common carrier coverage, it's almost all by gross receipts.  And NO ONE pays anything as low as 2%.  Heavy lifting, field service, or steel work is lucky to get 6% for liability coverage.    Why are we so outraged that health care has 2% liability insurance?  

Now, consider we are the most medicated and medically treated nation on Earth.  We also have THE MOST ERRORS of any industrialize nation.  Does spending 2% of our health care budget to insure against malpractice seem like too much to you?  We have more procedures than anywhere else and SCREW UP a greater percentage of those procedures than anywhere else.

B. I submit that your perspective is skewed if you have reviewed hundreds of claims and found ONE with merit.  Either that or the international community is against the USA when we are consistently rated poor for our error rate, infant mortality rate, and life expectancy (all the key elements of health care ratings).


Sorry Guido.  You just can not convince me that the 0.1% of the medical cost paid out to plaintiffs or the 2% total in insurance premiums somehow extrapolates to a medical cost that is 50% higher than anywhere else in the world.  It just doesn't make sense.

I'm not trying to be obtuse and I'm not motivated by ideology.  I don't work for a med mal firm (we have had med mal cases walk in [aforementioned sponge left in body] but not as part of our usual practice).  I have many relatives that are MDs.  I simply listened to the debate, looked up the statistics, and did some thinking.

Please put some numbers to it and explain how the med mal expenses add up to a significant number in light of the overall health care cost.  If we are honestly looking to save money:  should we look at the 0.1% of the cost that is reflected in plaintiffs money?   It just doesn't add up.
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Mission

 

"TulsaNow's Mission is to help Tulsa become the most vibrant, diverse, sustainable and prosperous city of our size. We achieve this by focusing on the development of Tulsa's distinctive identity and economic growth around a dynamic, urban core, complemented by a constellation of livable, thriving communities."
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Contact

 

2210 S Main St.
Tulsa, OK 74114
(918) 409-2669
info@tulsanow.org