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December 11, 2018, 02:13:07 pm
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Author Topic: 10 Commandments to go on State Capitol  (Read 58131 times)
swake
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« Reply #315 on: April 27, 2018, 12:10:28 pm »

This is nothing short of insane.

The people voted on this last election directly, and voted it down 57% to 43%.

The legislature doesn't give a damn about the people of this state or what they want.
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heironymouspasparagus
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« Reply #316 on: April 27, 2018, 12:15:27 pm »

This is nothing short of insane.

The people voted on this last election directly, and voted it down 57% to 43%.

The legislature doesn't give a damn about the people of this state or what they want.


Except for the fact it is the same voters that keep electing them.

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"So he brandished a gun, never shot anyone or anything right?"  --TeeDub, 17 Feb 2018.

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Ed W
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« Reply #317 on: April 27, 2018, 02:54:06 pm »

To reiterate, " this has nothing to do with the legality of establishing a monument and everything to do with appealing to the conservative base, guaranteeing they'll vote for whatever numbnutz tosses that red meat. Sure, it's a huge waste of taxpayer money, but it serves their re-election plans."

They know this won't pass a constitutional challenge. It's a cynical ploy to waste state money while bolstering their campaign donations. And people will fall for it...again.
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Ed

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Conan71
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« Reply #318 on: April 27, 2018, 07:49:01 pm »

Brought to you by the same people who think gun possession is a "God given right".

There are so many unintended consequences of the no license to carry bill it is unreal.  Least of which is it will kill Oklahoma's reciprocity with states which actually do care if you know how to handle the firearm in your pocket.  Sorry, major pissed off point for the Mrs. and I over the last 24 hours, especially with her father who lobbies on behalf of the Oklahoma Rifle Association which said this bill was a shitsandwich from the beginning.
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"It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession. I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first” -Ronald Reagan
TeeDub
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« Reply #319 on: April 28, 2018, 07:39:06 am »

Brought to you by the same people who think gun possession is a "God given right".

There are so many unintended consequences of the no license to carry bill it is unreal.  Least of which is it will kill Oklahoma's reciprocity with states which actually do care if you know how to handle the firearm in your pocket.  Sorry, major pissed off point for the Mrs. and I over the last 24 hours, especially with her father who lobbies on behalf of the Oklahoma Rifle Association which said this bill was a shitsandwich from the beginning.

That's not the way it worked when the other states passed constitutional carry (there are like 13 now.)

You will still need the permit to be able to carry in other states and reciprocity will still apply.
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patric
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« Reply #320 on: April 28, 2018, 10:35:55 am »


You will still need the permit to be able to carry in other states and reciprocity will still apply.


So, we went from unregulated open carry, to requiring a permit and training, to simple gun registration.

Meanwhile back on the topic;


It was the second time Reed had destroyed a Ten Commandments monument, authorities said, citing a similar instance in which he drove a car into the Ten Commandments monument at Oklahoma's state Capitol in 2014. In the Arkansas incident, a video that appeared to have been taken from inside the car was posted online, featuring a man yelling, "Oh my goodness. Freedom!" as the car careered into the monument.

https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2018/04/26/606029241/arkansas-installs-a-new-ten-commandments-monument-at-its-capitol
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"Tulsa will lay off police and firemen before we will cut back on unnecessarily wasteful streetlights."  -- March 18, 2009 TulsaNow Forum
Ed W
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« Reply #321 on: April 28, 2018, 11:59:22 am »

What if my god instructed me to smash all the monuments to every false god? Would religious freedom mean I couldn't be prosecuted for carrying out such an act of faith? I could claim His Noodly Appendage compelled me.
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Ed

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patric
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« Reply #322 on: April 28, 2018, 01:07:32 pm »

What if my god instructed me to smash all the monuments to every false god?  Would religious freedom mean I couldn't be prosecuted for carrying out such an act of faith? I could claim His Noodly Appendage compelled me.


Why the hell not, new religions are popping up all the time:

...when the bar’s lawyer, Elizabeth Conway, pointed out that only religious, and not political, beliefs are protected under state and city discrimination laws, saying, “supporting Trump is not a religion” — Piatek pivoted.

“The purpose of the (MAGA) hat is that he wore it because he was visiting the 9/11 Memorial,” his attorney Paul Liggieri told Justice David Cohen in court Wednesday.

“He was paying spiritual tribute to the victims of 9/11. The Make American Great Again hat was part of his spiritual belief,” Liggieri claimed. Piatek and his pals had, in fact, visited the memorial before the bar.

“Rather than remove his hat, instead he held true to his spiritual belief and was forced from the bar,” Liggieri said.

When the judge asked how the bar employees were supposed to be aware of Piatek’s unusual religious beliefs, Liggieri answered, “They were aware he was wearing the hat.”

The judge pressed Liggieri on the idea of his client’s professed creed.

“How many members are in this spiritual program that your client is engaged in?” the judge asked.

“Your honor, we don’t allege the amount of individuals,” Liggieri said.

“So, it’s a creed of one?” the judge asked.

“Yes, your honor,” Liggieri replied.

After nearly an hour of argument the judge took a short break and then returned to the bench with his ruling.

https://nypost.com/2018/04/25/judge-bars-are-allowed-to-throw-out-trump-supporters/
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"Tulsa will lay off police and firemen before we will cut back on unnecessarily wasteful streetlights."  -- March 18, 2009 TulsaNow Forum
Conan71
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« Reply #323 on: April 28, 2018, 04:48:05 pm »

That's not the way it worked when the other states passed constitutional carry (there are like 13 now.)

You will still need the permit to be able to carry in other states and reciprocity will still apply.

That's the point.

Perhaps I didn't say that correctly.  If you live in a "Constitutional carry" state, you may not be welcome to carry your firearm in a permit state without a permit.
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"It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession. I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first” -Ronald Reagan
heironymouspasparagus
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« Reply #324 on: April 30, 2018, 08:01:19 am »

Brought to you by the same people who think gun possession is a "God given right".

There are so many unintended consequences of the no license to carry bill it is unreal.  Least of which is it will kill Oklahoma's reciprocity with states which actually do care if you know how to handle the firearm in your pocket.  Sorry, major pissed off point for the Mrs. and I over the last 24 hours, especially with her father who lobbies on behalf of the Oklahoma Rifle Association which said this bill was a shitsandwich from the beginning.


It's another example of the shitsandwich that IS the Oklahoma Legislature...!!

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"So he brandished a gun, never shot anyone or anything right?"  --TeeDub, 17 Feb 2018.

I don’t share my thoughts because I think it will change the minds of people who think differently.  I share my thoughts to show the people who already think like me that they are not alone.
TeeDub
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« Reply #325 on: April 30, 2018, 09:19:53 am »


Perhaps I didn't say that correctly.  If you live in a "Constitutional carry" state, you may not be welcome to carry your firearm in a permit state without a permit.


It is my understanding that Oklahoma's constitutional carry will also be limited to Oklahoma residents.    Seems fair to me.

Having sat through a concealed carry class, I'm not sure there was really much to be gained there.   Most of it was focused on how you shouldn't pull out your pistol to solve arguments.   Shooting 50 rounds was a far cry from teaching gun proficiency.   

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rebound
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« Reply #326 on: April 30, 2018, 09:55:22 am »


It is my understanding that Oklahoma's constitutional carry will also be limited to Oklahoma residents.    Seems fair to me.

Having sat through a concealed carry class, I'm not sure there was really much to be gained there.   Most of it was focused on how you shouldn't pull out your pistol to solve arguments.   Shooting 50 rounds was a far cry from teaching gun proficiency.   

The class if far too short for anything but the basics of how to handle a firearm.  But (and I'm serious), the very act of going to the trouble of signing up and completing the class brings awareness.   Sometimes simply having someone instruct on "not being a dumb@$$" with a gun will have positive effects.
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heironymouspasparagus
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« Reply #327 on: April 30, 2018, 10:24:04 am »

The class if far too short for anything but the basics of how to handle a firearm.  But (and I'm serious), the very act of going to the trouble of signing up and completing the class brings awareness.   Sometimes simply having someone instruct on "not being a dumb@$$" with a gun will have positive effects.


Better than nothing, but still not great...

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"So he brandished a gun, never shot anyone or anything right?"  --TeeDub, 17 Feb 2018.

I don’t share my thoughts because I think it will change the minds of people who think differently.  I share my thoughts to show the people who already think like me that they are not alone.
Conan71
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« Reply #328 on: April 30, 2018, 02:41:43 pm »


It is my understanding that Oklahoma's constitutional carry will also be limited to Oklahoma residents.    Seems fair to me.

Having sat through a concealed carry class, I'm not sure there was really much to be gained there.   Most of it was focused on how you shouldn't pull out your pistol to solve arguments.   Shooting 50 rounds was a far cry from teaching gun proficiency.   



This appears to be the common anecdote I'm hearing from many of my friends as well as Facebook cowboys arguing on the issue.  I guess I was unaware that the CC course mandated by the state is pretty weak, but having some training is better than none.

The instructor MC and I went to did a very comprehensive class.  Aside from weapon proficiency, he went into how to diffuse a situation verbally and we did weaponless self-defense exercises.  Our instructor emphasized how not to get your gun taken from you, how to properly handle it and the overall responsibility of carrying and potentially having to use a weapon.
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patric
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« Reply #329 on: May 04, 2018, 09:48:17 am »

Voters be damned:

Shortly before the House of Representatives adjourned the 2018 regular session Thursday, representatives passed a bill that would allow “monuments or replicas” of the Ten Commandments to be displayed along with “other historical documents” by cities, counties, schools or other political subdivisions.

The Oklahoma Supreme Court ruled in 2015 that a privately funded Ten Commandments monument on the Capitol grounds was religious in nature and had to be removed because of a section of the state constitution that says no public money or property can be used to support any particular religion.

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/capitol_report/ten-commandments-historical-documents-bill-gets-legislative-approval-goes-to/article_3825a9a9-b73c-50a7-ab6c-13f6602b9103.html


The bill requires tax dollars be spent to defend against future legal challenges.

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"Tulsa will lay off police and firemen before we will cut back on unnecessarily wasteful streetlights."  -- March 18, 2009 TulsaNow Forum
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