Tulsa Named Most Dangerous City In Oklahoma

[MH2010]

"Citing the misfortune of TDP Officer Rolen is skirting the question of the carte-blanche that police have in their conduct that is judged "line of duty".

-First off Rolen was a dirty cop that decided to deal drugs. There is no "misfortune" there.It is punishment for a crime. I'm glad he got ten years. I cited him so people would realize the constant scrutiny police officers are under whether it is on the job or off.

"You left out the case of a few years back when the two TPD officers that were fired for stopping and holding a family at gun-point for the alleged infraction of their kid tossing an empty can of pop out of the car, striking their vehicle. It was over on U.S. 75; remember?

This male/female TPD duo had the entire family spread-eagled beside the car with their guns pointing at the family. Problem was, there were just a few TOO many witnesses to that escapade. Remember?

Didn't they get FIRED for exercising poor judgment? Did you know them?"

-It was Buddy and Lori Visser and they did get fired. However, the incident did not happen exactly like you said. Once again I don't know where you get your info but it's wrong.  Basically, it was a road rage deal and a few members of the family started throwing things out of the car and hitting the Visser's vehicle.  I don't know if you know this but it is a felony to throw things from a moving vehicle or to try and hit a moving vehicle with any object.  State law requires that if sworn police officers witness a felony then they are compelled to act. The Vissers acted and the situation went downhill even faster then it already was.  None of the occupants of the vehicle complied with lawful commands and guns had to be drawn.

Once the facts of the case was known, no charges were filed against the Vissers and they sued to get their jobs back.  The both won their jobs back in Arbitration.

"I do NOT believe the FOP is in favor of it, because on balance, it does tend to independently document evidence of occasional police misconduct, and the FOP just does not want that kind of evidence being around."

-I'm a member of the FOP and we do want camcorders in the vehicles as long as their is also audio. Like I said, It would be great evidence against criminals.

"And while we're at it, how about a streaming video helmet worn by TPD when they interact with civilians? The technology is available. Guess when can expect the streaming video helmets AFTER the TPD car camcorders."

-Technology is too expensive, they won't even give us camcorders. Also, sometimes people want to talk to us anonymously. They would not want to be recorded.

"Sometime I need to hear your opinion on what Continuum of Force means? To me, it seems to mean that the police, who can never just BACK-OFF, keep applying greater and greater amounts of force until the civilian is dead? Right? Even if it's only a traffic stop for running a Yellow Light? Right?"

-When I have time I will write down the TPD Use of Force policy.  It's no secret.  Police do "just BACK-OFF" sometimes.  Vehicle pursuits are canceled around Tulsa all the time because they become to dangerous. On the other hand, when a criminal breaks the law (murder, rape, domestic violence, robbery ect.) and they get caught, they have to go to jail.  It's not optional. They can't say, "I'll got to jail later, I'm not feeling like it today, or I'm just not going to jail."  

[Uranus74136]

quote:Originally posted by MH2010

"Citing the misfortune of TDP Officer Rolen is skirting the question of the carte-blanche that police have in their conduct that is judged "line of duty".

-First off Rolen was a dirty cop that decided to deal drugs. There is no "misfortune" there.It is punishment for a crime. I'm glad he got ten years. I cited him so people would realize the constant scrutiny police officers are under whether it is on the job or off.

"You left out the case of a few years back when the two TPD officers that were fired for stopping and holding a family at gun-point for the alleged infraction of their kid tossing an empty can of pop out of the car, striking their vehicle. It was over on U.S. 75; remember?

This male/female TPD duo had the entire family spread-eagled beside the car with their guns pointing at the family. Problem was, there were just a few TOO many witnesses to that escapade. Remember?

Didn't they get FIRED for exercising poor judgment? Did you know them?"

-It was Buddy and Lori Visser and they did get fired. However, the incident did not happen exactly like you said. Once again I don't know where you get your info but it's wrong.  Basically, it was a road rage deal and a few members of the family started throwing things out of the car and hitting the Visser's vehicle.  I don't know if you know this but it is a felony to throw things from a moving vehicle or to try and hit a moving vehicle with any object.  State law requires that if sworn police officers witness a felony then they are compelled to act. The Vissers acted and the situation went downhill even faster then it already was.  None of the occupants of the vehicle complied with lawful commands and guns had to be drawn.

Once the facts of the case was known, no charges were filed against the Vissers and they sued to get their jobs back.  The both won their jobs back in Arbitration.

"I do NOT believe the FOP is in favor of it, because on balance, it does tend to independently document evidence of occasional police misconduct, and the FOP just does not want that kind of evidence being around."

-I'm a member of the FOP and we do want camcorders in the vehicles as long as their is also audio. Like I said, It would be great evidence against criminals.

"And while we're at it, how about a streaming video helmet worn by TPD when they interact with civilians? The technology is available. Guess when can expect the streaming video helmets AFTER the TPD car camcorders."

-Technology is too expensive, they won't even give us camcorders. Also, sometimes people want to talk to us anonymously. They would not want to be recorded.

"Sometime I need to hear your opinion on what Continuum of Force means? To me, it seems to mean that the police, who can never just BACK-OFF, keep applying greater and greater amounts of force until the civilian is dead? Right? Even if it's only a traffic stop for running a Yellow Light? Right?"

-When I have time I will write down the TPD Use of Force policy.  It's no secret.  Police do "just BACK-OFF" sometimes.  Vehicle pursuits are canceled around Tulsa all the time because they become to dangerous. On the other hand, when a criminal breaks the law (murder, rape, domestic violence, robbery ect.) and they get caught, they have to go to jail.  It's not optional. They can't say, "I'll got to jail later, I'm not feeling like it today, or I'm just not going to jail."  

I'm already quite familiar with the retro-Oklahoma statute that makes it a felony to throw an object at a moving vehicle.

>Mr. Paul Tay's case of "throwing his water bottle at a moving vehicle" got him a Felony charge.  The TPD was "right there" to swoop in to make an arrest OF MR TAY, after the vehicle involved tried to RUN OVER HIS BICYCLE and KILL HIM.  

>Then, the TPD piled on and charged him with wearing a protective vest while in commission of a felony, the Felony being tossing his water bottle at car that was trying to KILL HIM.

>>Guess in all that excitement that TPD forgot to charge Mr. Mystery Man with the attempted Vehicular Homicide of Mr. Tay?

>>Ah, the Vissers.  Couple of real Sweethearts.  Uh, they weren't actually in a marked vehicle that got into what you described as a "road rage" incident?  Couldn't have been a TPD cruiser, could it, since they were headed home outside of the City Limits of Tulsa, and the TPD take-home policy requires officers to leave their TPD vehicle within the City Limits of Tulsa?  

>>The civilians involved didn't realize they were dealing with a couple of psycho-cops who had run THEM off the road, then started waving guns in their faces.

>>Wonder if the family involved with the Vissers got any financial settlement from the City of Tulsa for the Vissers' Oppression in Office?

It's really scary knowing that volatile personalities like the Vissers are "protecting" me tonite.

 

[Rico]

SOUNDS LIKE THE CITY OF TULSA WAS SAVED A LOT OF HUMILIATION WITH THIS "TAY" FELLOW BEING ARRESTED!


WHAT KIND OF "5150" WAS HE? BULLET PROOF VEST OR SOMETHING HEAVING LITTLE PISSY WATER BOTTLES AT CARS!

MY APOLOGIES IF "5150" IS NOT THE OKLAHOMA STATUTE  THAT MORE OR LESS IDENTIFIES AN OFFENDER AS BEING, DRESSED IN SARAN WRAP WAVING A SWORD IN THE MIDDLE OF THE BA AT RUSH HOUR......................

THAT IS THE CALIF STATUTE #

[MH2010]

quote:Originally posted by Uranus74136

quote:Originally posted by MH2010

"Citing the misfortune of TDP Officer Rolen is skirting the question of the carte-blanche that police have in their conduct that is judged "line of duty".

-First off Rolen was a dirty cop that decided to deal drugs. There is no "misfortune" there.It is punishment for a crime. I'm glad he got ten years. I cited him so people would realize the constant scrutiny police officers are under whether it is on the job or off.

"You left out the case of a few years back when the two TPD officers that were fired for stopping and holding a family at gun-point for the alleged infraction of their kid tossing an empty can of pop out of the car, striking their vehicle. It was over on U.S. 75; remember?

This male/female TPD duo had the entire family spread-eagled beside the car with their guns pointing at the family. Problem was, there were just a few TOO many witnesses to that escapade. Remember?

Didn't they get FIRED for exercising poor judgment? Did you know them?"

-It was Buddy and Lori Visser and they did get fired. However, the incident did not happen exactly like you said. Once again I don't know where you get your info but it's wrong.  Basically, it was a road rage deal and a few members of the family started throwing things out of the car and hitting the Visser's vehicle.  I don't know if you know this but it is a felony to throw things from a moving vehicle or to try and hit a moving vehicle with any object.  State law requires that if sworn police officers witness a felony then they are compelled to act. The Vissers acted and the situation went downhill even faster then it already was.  None of the occupants of the vehicle complied with lawful commands and guns had to be drawn.

Once the facts of the case was known, no charges were filed against the Vissers and they sued to get their jobs back.  The both won their jobs back in Arbitration.

"I do NOT believe the FOP is in favor of it, because on balance, it does tend to independently document evidence of occasional police misconduct, and the FOP just does not want that kind of evidence being around."

-I'm a member of the FOP and we do want camcorders in the vehicles as long as their is also audio. Like I said, It would be great evidence against criminals.

"And while we're at it, how about a streaming video helmet worn by TPD when they interact with civilians? The technology is available. Guess when can expect the streaming video helmets AFTER the TPD car camcorders."

-Technology is too expensive, they won't even give us camcorders. Also, sometimes people want to talk to us anonymously. They would not want to be recorded.

"Sometime I need to hear your opinion on what Continuum of Force means? To me, it seems to mean that the police, who can never just BACK-OFF, keep applying greater and greater amounts of force until the civilian is dead? Right? Even if it's only a traffic stop for running a Yellow Light? Right?"

-When I have time I will write down the TPD Use of Force policy.  It's no secret.  Police do "just BACK-OFF" sometimes.  Vehicle pursuits are canceled around Tulsa all the time because they become to dangerous. On the other hand, when a criminal breaks the law (murder, rape, domestic violence, robbery ect.) and they get caught, they have to go to jail.  It's not optional. They can't say, "I'll got to jail later, I'm not feeling like it today, or I'm just not going to jail."  

I'm already quite familiar with the retro-Oklahoma statute that makes it a felony to throw an object at a moving vehicle.

>Mr. Paul Tay's case of "throwing his water bottle at a moving vehicle" got him a Felony charge.  The TPD was "right there" to swoop in to make an arrest OF MR TAY, after the vehicle involved tried to RUN OVER HIS BICYCLE and KILL HIM.  

>Then, the TPD piled on and charged him with wearing a protective vest while in commission of a felony, the Felony being tossing his water bottle at car that was trying to KILL HIM.

>>Guess in all that excitement that TPD forgot to charge Mr. Mystery Man with the attempted Vehicular Homicide of Mr. Tay?

>>Ah, the Vissers.  Couple of real Sweethearts.  Uh, they weren't actually in a marked vehicle that got into what you described as a "road rage" incident?  Couldn't have been a TPD cruiser, could it, since they were headed home outside of the City Limits of Tulsa, and the TPD take-home policy requires officers to leave their TPD vehicle within the City Limits of Tulsa?  

>>The civilians involved didn't realize they were dealing with a couple of psycho-cops who had run THEM off the road, then started waving guns in their faces.

>>Wonder if the family involved with the Vissers got any financial settlement from the City of Tulsa for the Vissers' Oppression in Office?

It's really scary knowing that volatile personalities like the Vissers are "protecting" me tonite.

 

At first I thought Paul Tay was funny and was just trying to exercise his freedom of speech in some misguided way. Later,  I realized he was mentally unstable or maybe he became mentally unstable.  Either way, I didn't really worry about him until he started saying he was going to kill the police and all the people who were after him.  He really became a concern when he got a hold of some body armor was rumored to also be carrying a handgun. He was wearing the body armor when he was riding his bicycle towing a large penis before he got arrested.  About this time, he went over the edge are really became a danger to himself and others.

I don't think anyone tried to hit him with the vehicle. If I remember right, he made that up to get some more attention but he did throw a water bottle at a car and caused some damage on the vehicle.

 He used to have a website but I don't think it is up anymore.  Last I heard of him, he got arrested in OKC and was doing time in the Oklahoma County Jail.  I hope they got him some mental health help.

As far as the Vissers go. They both are good officers.  Check out all the awards and commendations they have received.  You need to check your TPD Policy and Procedure book before you start trying to quote policy.  They were in Buddy's city vehicle.  SOT members can take their city vehicle's home even if they live ourside the city limits.  

The road rage family knew they were the police when everyone got pulled over and just didn't care.  

The famiies case got dimissed in State court and then they tried to sue them in Federal court.  I don't think that got very far either.  I don't remember a settlement ever being reached.

[Uranus74136]

quote:Originally posted by MH2010

quote:Originally posted by Uranus74136

quote:Originally posted by MH2010

"Citing the misfortune of TDP Officer Rolen is skirting the question of the carte-blanche that police have in their conduct that is judged "line of duty".

-First off Rolen was a dirty cop that decided to deal drugs. There is no "misfortune" there.It is punishment for a crime. I'm glad he got ten years. I cited him so people would realize the constant scrutiny police officers are under whether it is on the job or off.

"You left out the case of a few years back when the two TPD officers that were fired for stopping and holding a family at gun-point for the alleged infraction of their kid tossing an empty can of pop out of the car, striking their vehicle. It was over on U.S. 75; remember?

This male/female TPD duo had the entire family spread-eagled beside the car with their guns pointing at the family. Problem was, there were just a few TOO many witnesses to that escapade. Remember?

Didn't they get FIRED for exercising poor judgment? Did you know them?"

-It was Buddy and Lori Visser and they did get fired. However, the incident did not happen exactly like you said. Once again I don't know where you get your info but it's wrong.  Basically, it was a road rage deal and a few members of the family started throwing things out of the car and hitting the Visser's vehicle.  I don't know if you know this but it is a felony to throw things from a moving vehicle or to try and hit a moving vehicle with any object.  State law requires that if sworn police officers witness a felony then they are compelled to act. The Vissers acted and the situation went downhill even faster then it already was.  None of the occupants of the vehicle complied with lawful commands and guns had to be drawn.

Once the facts of the case was known, no charges were filed against the Vissers and they sued to get their jobs back.  The both won their jobs back in Arbitration.

"I do NOT believe the FOP is in favor of it, because on balance, it does tend to independently document evidence of occasional police misconduct, and the FOP just does not want that kind of evidence being around."

-I'm a member of the FOP and we do want camcorders in the vehicles as long as their is also audio. Like I said, It would be great evidence against criminals.

"And while we're at it, how about a streaming video helmet worn by TPD when they interact with civilians? The technology is available. Guess when can expect the streaming video helmets AFTER the TPD car camcorders."

-Technology is too expensive, they won't even give us camcorders. Also, sometimes people want to talk to us anonymously. They would not want to be recorded.

"Sometime I need to hear your opinion on what Continuum of Force means? To me, it seems to mean that the police, who can never just BACK-OFF, keep applying greater and greater amounts of force until the civilian is dead? Right? Even if it's only a traffic stop for running a Yellow Light? Right?"

-When I have time I will write down the TPD Use of Force policy.  It's no secret.  Police do "just BACK-OFF" sometimes.  Vehicle pursuits are canceled around Tulsa all the time because they become to dangerous. On the other hand, when a criminal breaks the law (murder, rape, domestic violence, robbery ect.) and they get caught, they have to go to jail.  It's not optional. They can't say, "I'll got to jail later, I'm not feeling like it today, or I'm just not going to jail."  

I'm already quite familiar with the retro-Oklahoma statute that makes it a felony to throw an object at a moving vehicle.

>Mr. Paul Tay's case of "throwing his water bottle at a moving vehicle" got him a Felony charge.  The TPD was "right there" to swoop in to make an arrest OF MR TAY, after the vehicle involved tried to RUN OVER HIS BICYCLE and KILL HIM.  

>Then, the TPD piled on and charged him with wearing a protective vest while in commission of a felony, the Felony being tossing his water bottle at car that was trying to KILL HIM.

>>Guess in all that excitement that TPD forgot to charge Mr. Mystery Man with the attempted Vehicular Homicide of Mr. Tay?

>>Ah, the Vissers.  Couple of real Sweethearts.  Uh, they weren't actually in a marked vehicle that got into what you described as a "road rage" incident?  Couldn't have been a TPD cruiser, could it, since they were headed home outside of the City Limits of Tulsa, and the TPD take-home policy requires officers to leave their TPD vehicle within the City Limits of Tulsa?  

>>The civilians involved didn't realize they were dealing with a couple of psycho-cops who had run THEM off the road, then started waving guns in their faces.

>>Wonder if the family involved with the Vissers got any financial settlement from the City of Tulsa for the Vissers' Oppression in Office?

It's really scary knowing that volatile personalities like the Vissers are "protecting" me tonite.

 

At first I thought Paul Tay was funny and was just trying to exercise his freedom of speech in some misguided way. Later,  I realized he was mentally unstable or maybe he became mentally unstable.  Either way, I didn't really worry about him until he started saying he was going to kill the police and all the people who were after him.  He really became a concern when he got a hold of some body armor was rumored to also be carrying a handgun. He was wearing the body armor when he was riding his bicycle towing a large penis before he got arrested.  About this time, he went over the edge are really became a danger to himself and others.

I don't think anyone tried to hit him with the vehicle. If I remember right, he made that up to get some more attention but he did throw a water bottle at a car and caused some damage on the vehicle.

 He used to have a website but I don't think it is up anymore.  Last I heard of him, he got arrested in OKC and was doing time in the Oklahoma County Jail.  I hope they got him some mental health help.

As far as the Vissers go. They both are good officers.  Check out all the awards and commendations they have received.  You need to check your TPD Policy and Procedure book before you start trying to quote policy.  They were in Buddy's city vehicle.  SOT members can take their city vehicle's home even if they live ourside the city limits.  

The road rage family knew they were the police when everyone got pulled over and just didn't care.  

The famiies case got dimissed in State court and then they tried to sue them in Federal court.  I don't think that got very far either.  I don't remember a settlement ever being reached.

--The road rage I was referring to was the VISSER's Road Rage, not the civilian family.  It was the Vissers who went stark, raving mad at the family because a pop can came sailing out of the car, and boinged their automobile.

--Oh, I'm not in the least concerned that an empty pop can is a Felony; EVERYTHING is a possible FELONY in a retro state like Oklahoma.  Until it was recently increased, Oklahoma had the LOWEST threshold in the nation for a felony involving money, like for Larceny:  $50.00.  How DO you think that Oklahoma got the dubious distinction of the #1 Female Incarceration Rate in the U.S., and the #4 Male Incarceration Rate in the U.S.?

--Spitting on a police officer is a Felony which got a defendant in Creek County a LIFE Sentence.  

--So Mr. Visser is on the TPD SWAT Team?  That's scary.  I cannot think of a least suitable candidate than some volatile hothead like officer Visser to be in charge of assault rifles, large bore sniper rifles, and carrying a legal license to "shoot on sight".  That is absolutely SCARY.

The guy needs to be a TPD file clerk, where he can't be a danger to anyone, except maybe himself with a self-inflicted paper cut.

--I've never met Mr. Tay.  I didn't agree with his tactics or his message.  I saw him riding his bike around Tulsa.  But, he wasn't hurting anyone.  He probably got the protective vest because people were always throwing things at HIM.  THEY didn't get arrested, did THEY?

Yet, if anyone in the Tulsa judiciary ever bothered to read the U.S. Constitution (which they haven't, evidently), they would know what he was doing is protected by the 1st Amendment (Bill of Rights - EVER heard of it?).

Someone, probably the Mayor, wanted him off the streets.  It was a TPD set-up deal to first provoke a angry reaction by trying to run over him, then swoop down and make a multi-felony arrest to put him away for a long time.

The guy was harmless.  And, I don't buy your Faux-Concern about his mental state; he was taken to TULSA COUNTY JAIL, not Parkside.

He was jailed for several months in OKC (couldn't make bail) for trying to "disrupt" a demonstration being held outside the State Capitol.  I think his Bat-Bike was involved there, too.

[MH2010]

"The road rage I was referring to was the VISSER's Road Rage, not the civilian family. It was the Vissers who went stark, raving mad at the family because a pop can came sailing out of the car, and boinged their automobile."

-So taking an oath to enforce the law and then doing what you took an oath to do is the definition of "stark, raving mad". Remember throwing an object from a moving vehicle or hitting a moving vehicle is a felony.  We don't make the laws, we just enforce them.

"Spitting on a police officer is a Felony which got a defendant in Creek County a LIFE Sentence. "

-The "Placing bodily fluid upon a
government employee" law was introduced in Oklahoma in 1996 and was aimed at protecting police officers from people with Aids and other diseases attacking and possibly infecting them. But that wasn't why he got a life sentence.

The spitting on a police officer charge was John Marquez's third felony offense.  He had previous felony convictions, one of them was for 1st Degree Rape.

As far as the spitting incident itself, Mr. Marquez spat at police officer Charles Gadd as he was being arrested following a domestic argument in which Marquez broke his wife's arm. Marquez spat at the officer despite being warned not to and then bit the officer as he tried to stop him from spitting.

He received a one-year sentence for the misdeamnor charge of domestic violence (the strongest sentence they could impose) but the jury (not the police or judge) recommended a life sentence for the spitting on a police officer charge.

"So Mr. Visser is on the TPD SWAT Team? That's scary. I cannot think of a least suitable candidate than some volatile hothead like officer Visser to be in charge of assault rifles, large bore sniper rifles, and carrying a legal license to "shoot on sight". That is absolutely SCARY."

-Mr. Visser is a sniper on the SOT team.  He has won national awards for his marksmanship and numerous Police awards.  He is a decorated officer and one of the best marksman on the department. He has an distinguished record and has served the city exceptionally.

"Yet, if anyone in the Tulsa judiciary ever bothered to read the U.S. Constitution (which they haven't, evidently), they would know what he was doing is protected by the 1st Amendment (Bill of Rights - EVER heard of it?).

Someone, probably the Mayor, wanted him off the streets. It was a TPD set-up deal to first provoke a angry reaction by trying to run over him, then swoop down and make a multi-felony arrest to put him away for a long time."

- I'm not sure riding around on a bicycle towing a large penis is covered under the 1st Amendment.  Even though he was never arrested for that.  He usually was written tickets for traffic violations (no headlight on bicycle at night, right of way violations, bicycles on a highway or interstate, impeding the flow of traffic ect.) and when he refused to show up at court or would not pay the fine then he was arrested for the outstanding warrants.

-Let me get this straight, you think TPD had nothing better to do then to get together and set up Paul Tay?  That we all conspired to secretly make Paul mad and entrap him?  You need to get back on your meds or go visit Doctor's hospital for awhile.

Paul's state convictions in Tulsa were on 06/14/2004 and 07/23/04. On 06/14/2004 Paul got charged with Trespass after being forbidden,fail to signal and obstructing an officer. He received six months in Tulsa County Jail/Suspended. On 07/23/2004 Paul Tay got 3 years deferred and a fine on the charges of throwing object at motor vehcile,assualt on a police officer and use of body armor in commision of a felony. Paul has yet to be sentenced to time actually in the Jail in Tulsa County so when you say "make a multi-felony arrest to put him away for a long time" you have no idea what you are talking about.

"The guy was harmless. And, I don't buy your Faux-Concern about his mental state; he was taken to TULSA COUNTY JAIL, not Parkside."

-Paul had an extensive mental health history and was taken to Parkside and then to Doctor's hospital a few times.  As far as my concern, I have a Master's degree in Psychology so I do have some concern with people's mental state. However, TPD has strict guidelines about EOD's and usually he did not fall into those guidelines.

[Kiah]

quote:Originally posted by MH2010

Most people I arrest . . . .

quote:Originally posted by MH2010

The best 4 years since WWII is getting ready to start.  F$*% Kerry and the Dems!

quote:Originally posted by MH2010

I have a Master's degree in Psychology so I do have some concern with people's mental state.

It just gets scarier and scarier.

[Uranus74136]

quote:Originally posted by MH2010

"The road rage I was referring to was the VISSER's Road Rage, not the civilian family. It was the Vissers who went stark, raving mad at the family because a pop can came sailing out of the car, and boinged their automobile."

-So taking an oath to enforce the law and then doing what you took an oath to do is the definition of "stark, raving mad". Remember throwing an object from a moving vehicle or hitting a moving vehicle is a felony.  We don't make the laws, we just enforce them.

"Spitting on a police officer is a Felony which got a defendant in Creek County a LIFE Sentence. "

-The "Placing bodily fluid upon a
government employee" law was introduced in Oklahoma in 1996 and was aimed at protecting police officers from people with Aids and other diseases attacking and possibly infecting them. But that wasn't why he got a life sentence.

The spitting on a police officer charge was John Marquez's third felony offense.  He had previous felony convictions, one of them was for 1st Degree Rape.

As far as the spitting incident itself, Mr. Marquez spat at police officer Charles Gadd as he was being arrested following a domestic argument in which Marquez broke his wife's arm. Marquez spat at the officer despite being warned not to and then bit the officer as he tried to stop him from spitting.

He received a one-year sentence for the misdeamnor charge of domestic violence (the strongest sentence they could impose) but the jury (not the police or judge) recommended a life sentence for the spitting on a police officer charge.

"So Mr. Visser is on the TPD SWAT Team? That's scary. I cannot think of a least suitable candidate than some volatile hothead like officer Visser to be in charge of assault rifles, large bore sniper rifles, and carrying a legal license to "shoot on sight". That is absolutely SCARY."

-Mr. Visser is a sniper on the SOT team.  He has won national awards for his marksmanship and numerous Police awards.  He is a decorated officer and one of the best marksman on the department. He has an distinguished record and has served the city exceptionally.

"Yet, if anyone in the Tulsa judiciary ever bothered to read the U.S. Constitution (which they haven't, evidently), they would know what he was doing is protected by the 1st Amendment (Bill of Rights - EVER heard of it?).

Someone, probably the Mayor, wanted him off the streets. It was a TPD set-up deal to first provoke a angry reaction by trying to run over him, then swoop down and make a multi-felony arrest to put him away for a long time."

- I'm not sure riding around on a bicycle towing a large penis is covered under the 1st Amendment.  Even though he was never arrested for that.  He usually was written tickets for traffic violations (no headlight on bicycle at night, right of way violations, bicycles on a highway or interstate, impeding the flow of traffic ect.) and when he refused to show up at court or would not pay the fine then he was arrested for the outstanding warrants.

-Let me get this straight, you think TPD had nothing better to do then to get together and set up Paul Tay?  That we all conspired to secretly make Paul mad and entrap him?  You need to get back on your meds or go visit Doctor's hospital for awhile.

Paul's state convictions in Tulsa were on 06/14/2004 and 07/23/04. On 06/14/2004 Paul got charged with Trespass after being forbidden,fail to signal and obstructing an officer. He received six months in Tulsa County Jail/Suspended. On 07/23/2004 Paul Tay got 3 years deferred and a fine on the charges of throwing object at motor vehcile,assualt on a police officer and use of body armor in commision of a felony. Paul has yet to be sentenced to time actually in the Jail in Tulsa County so when you say "make a multi-felony arrest to put him away for a long time" you have no idea what you are talking about.

"The guy was harmless. And, I don't buy your Faux-Concern about his mental state; he was taken to TULSA COUNTY JAIL, not Parkside."

-Paul had an extensive mental health history and was taken to Parkside and then to Doctor's hospital a few times.  As far as my concern, I have a Master's degree in Psychology so I do have some concern with people's mental state. However, TPD has strict guidelines about EOD's and usually he did not fall into those guidelines.

Say, it occurred to me to ask:  

Are you monitoring www.tulsanow.org
as part of your official LEO duties?

Hmmmmh?

As to the size of Mr. Tay's obscene prop attached to an antenna on his Bat-Bike, it appeared of a normal size to me.

[rwarn17588]

<start clip>

His contemporaneous comments, carried repeatedly on C-Span at the time, were a carefully chronologued history of abuses of the criminal justice system perpetrated against the citizens of Illinois. Really a totally damning indictment of capital punishment. Catch his comments again sometime.

He's now under Federal Indictment, for his campaign workers' violations of campaign law, as well as certain close advisors selling favors.

Is this Payback for his daring to question the Government-is-God-and-is-therefore-ALWAYS-RIGHT mentality?

<end clip>

The answer to your question is: No.

As a former Illinoisan, I can tell you that the investigation of former Gov. George Ryan on the bribes-for-driver's-licenses scandal was ongoing for *years* before he commuted the death sentence, back in the days when Ryan was secretary of state. Dozens and dozens of state officials were charged and convicted, including his own chief of staff (before the commutation, by the way). The tentacles of the scandal extended all the way to the top.

Many people, myself included, initially thought that Ryan commuted death sentences as a political move or as a way to cement his legacy. Because reaction was so unpopular, I don't think he did it for the former. Perhaps the latter, given his upcoming legal problems, but I'm more unsure now.

With the passage of time and subsequent reports about Ryan, I'm strongly inclined to believe that he commuted the sentences because he had a  big change of heart about the death penalty -- namely, that it is patently unfair to the poor or minority people. Without fairness in the sytem, the death penalties had to be eliminated. Because if you execute someone and find out later you made a mistake (and grave mistakes had already been found), you can't take it back.

I, who once was a supporter of the death penalty but now takes a dim view of it, applaud his decision.

I just wish that his conscience had bothered him more years earlier when all those staffers under him accepted bribes for driver's licenses.

[Uranus74136]

quote:Originally posted by rwarn17588

<start clip>

His contemporaneous comments, carried repeatedly on C-Span at the time, were a carefully chronologued history of abuses of the criminal justice system perpetrated against the citizens of Illinois. Really a totally damning indictment of capital punishment. Catch his comments again sometime.

He's now under Federal Indictment, for his campaign workers' violations of campaign law, as well as certain close advisors selling favors.

Is this Payback for his daring to question the Government-is-God-and-is-therefore-ALWAYS-RIGHT mentality?

<end clip>

The answer to your question is: No.

As a former Illinoisan, I can tell you that the investigation of former Gov. George Ryan on the bribes-for-driver's-licenses scandal was ongoing for *years* before he commuted the death sentence, back in the days when Ryan was secretary of state. Dozens and dozens of state officials were charged and convicted, including his own chief of staff (before the commutation, by the way). The tentacles of the scandal extended all the way to the top.

Many people, myself included, initially thought that Ryan commuted death sentences as a political move or as a way to cement his legacy. Because reaction was so unpopular, I don't think he did it for the former. Perhaps the latter, given his upcoming legal problems, but I'm more unsure now.

With the passage of time and subsequent reports about Ryan, I'm strongly inclined to believe that he commuted the sentences because he had a  big change of heart about the death penalty -- namely, that it is patently unfair to the poor or minority people. Without fairness in the sytem, the death penalties had to be eliminated. Because if you execute someone and find out later you made a mistake (and grave mistakes had already been found), you can't take it back.

I, who once was a supporter of the death penalty but now takes a dim view of it, applaud his decision.

I just wish that his conscience had bothered him more years earlier when all those staffers under him accepted bribes for driver's licenses.

Sounds more than plausible. Ryan certainly SOUNDED sincere in his televised remarks about the perversity of the Death Penalty as administered in Illinois.  

Also, a number of the pardons or commutations were done because of some reasonably solid evidence of severe police misconduct, i.e. the use of torture to extract confessions -
King Daley the II's Chicago PD, of course.

Evidently, there were also too few funds in Illinois alloted for Indigent Defense, which has been a problem in many states; especially Texas, but also in Oklahoma in the not too distant past.  

Say, WHY would anyone need to PAY a bribe to get an Illinois Driver's License?  Were they that THAT difficult to get?  

[rwarn17588]

<start clip>

Say, WHY would anyone need to PAY a bribe to get an Illinois Driver's License? Were they that THAT difficult to get?

<end clip>

Illegal aliens and those who had no business driving (revoked, suspended, etc.) were getting the licenses. The bribes were used to fudge test results or other paperwork.

The whole scheme blew up about five years ago when a truck driver who had one of those improperly obtained licenses caused a huge wreck on the Dan Ryan Expressway in Chicago. A family or four or five died in the fiery wreck. Once the Chicago newspapers started sniffing around on why the wreck happened, the lid on the whole mess came off. The corruption in the secretary of state's office under Ryan was awe-inspiring in its breadth and brazenness.

That was one of the big reasons why Ryan became one of the most unpopular governors in history (one of the other reasons was he reneged on a promise and jacked up fees and taxes. From then on, Illinoisans started calling them "tax-and-spend Republicans."). The state GOP under Ryan was rotten to the core -- brimming with kickbacks, bribes and other corruption that's too long a list to mention here. The Democrats ran an anti-corruption theme to the state elections and won big.

Gov. Ryan's saga is one reason why I'm highly skeptical when Republicans start touting "morals" and being the "party of virtue." When someone starts spouting morals, I think he's got something to hide.

[Uranus74136]

quote:Originally posted by rwarn17588

<start clip>

Say, WHY would anyone need to PAY a bribe to get an Illinois Driver's License? Were they that THAT difficult to get?

<end clip>

Illegal aliens and those who had no business driving (revoked, suspended, etc.) were getting the licenses. The bribes were used to fudge test results or other paperwork.

The whole scheme blew up about five years ago when a truck driver who had one of those improperly obtained licenses caused a huge wreck on the Dan Ryan Expressway in Chicago. A family or four or five died in the fiery wreck. Once the Chicago newspapers started sniffing around on why the wreck happened, the lid on the whole mess came off. The corruption in the secretary of state's office under Ryan was awe-inspiring in its breadth and brazenness.

That was one of the big reasons why Ryan became one of the most unpopular governors in history (one of the other reasons was he reneged on a promise and jacked up fees and taxes. From then on, Illinoisans started calling them "tax-and-spend Republicans."). The state GOP under Ryan was rotten to the core -- brimming with kickbacks, bribes and other corruption that's too long a list to mention here. The Democrats ran an anti-corruption theme to the state elections and won big.

Gov. Ryan's saga is one reason why I'm highly skeptical when Republicans start touting "morals" and being the "party of virtue." When someone starts spouting morals, I think he's got something to hide.

Interesting.  Wonder if Al Queda got any of those Illinois D.L.'s?

Was GOP Speaker of the House Denny Hastert involved in the corrupt Illinois GOP political machine?

[MH2010]

quote:Originally posted by Kiah

quote:Originally posted by MH2010

Most people I arrest . . . .

quote:Originally posted by MH2010

The best 4 years since WWII is getting ready to start.  F$*% Kerry and the Dems!

quote:Originally posted by MH2010

I have a Master's degree in Psychology so I do have some concern with people's mental state.

It just gets scarier and scarier.

What can I say, I subscribe to a contemporary behavioral viewpoint.

Oh by the way, I still believe George Bush will help America acheive a great next four years and I still say F$#% Kerry and the Democrates.

[rwarn17588]

<start clip>

Interesting. Wonder if Al Queda got any of those Illinois D.L.'s?

Was GOP Speaker of the House Denny Hastert involved in the corrupt Illinois GOP political machine?

<end clip>

No al-Qaidans that we know of (interesting angle I hadn't considered, however). Based on what I've read, most of the illegal aliens who got the licenses were Mexicans and Poles.  Remember, Chicago has a big population of Polish immigrants.

Based on what I've read, Hastert had no involvement in the corruption whatsoever. Remember, he's been a congressman for more than 10 years -- well before Ryan's corruption at the secretary of state's office began.

Privately, a lot of Illinois Republicans I know  would like to string up George Ryan from the tallest flagpole in Springfield. He singlehandedly devastated the Illinois GOP, probably for at least another decade.

I have no direct evidence for this, but there's a strong indication that the state GOP's corruption problems began during Gov. Jim Thompson's tenure. It waned with Gov. Jim Edgar, mostly because he wouldn't have tolerated it. Edgar was known for being the toughest secretary of state in the country on drunk drivers. Corruption under Edgar's watch is unfathomable. It just wouldn't have happened, period. And during Ryan's tenure as governor when all the sh-- was hitting the fan, Edgar publicly said he was extremely unhappy about it.

[Uranus74136]

quote:Originally posted by rwarn17588

<start clip>

Interesting. Wonder if Al Queda got any of those Illinois D.L.'s?

Was GOP Speaker of the House Denny Hastert involved in the corrupt Illinois GOP political machine?

<end clip>

No al-Qaidans that we know of (interesting angle I hadn't considered, however). Based on what I've read, most of the illegal aliens who got the licenses were Mexicans and Poles.  Remember, Chicago has a big population of Polish immigrants.

Based on what I've read, Hastert had no involvement in the corruption whatsoever. Remember, he's been a congressman for more than 10 years -- well before Ryan's corruption at the secretary of state's office began.

Privately, a lot of Illinois Republicans I know  would like to string up George Ryan from the tallest flagpole in Springfield. He singlehandedly devastated the Illinois GOP, probably for at least another decade.

I have no direct evidence for this, but there's a strong indication that the state GOP's corruption problems began during Gov. Jim Thompson's tenure. It waned with Gov. Jim Edgar, mostly because he wouldn't have tolerated it. Edgar was known for being the toughest secretary of state in the country on drunk drivers. Corruption under Edgar's watch is unfathomable. It just wouldn't have happened, period. And during Ryan's tenure as governor when all the sh-- was hitting the fan, Edgar publicly said he was extremely unhappy about it.

BACK on topic as to Tulsa being Oklahoma's most dangerous city....

Could it be that the resurfacing job on Tulsa's Riverside Drive where the lady's car JUMPED the curb yesterday and plunged into the icy Arkansas River with her car-seat bound baby was due to the following little problem:

Whenever the last resurfacing was done on this portion of Riverside Drive, rather than properly chew up the old asphalt and THEN re-surface, they just RE-SURFACED?  

As a result, the height of the curb is TOO LOW in this section of road to readily deter car tires from riding up over the curb and then proceeding through the bikepath, and in this case, promptly plunging the vehicle into the river.

Wasn't a prominent local architect STEAMROLLERED by another runaway car a few years ago, as he blissfully jogged along the Arkansas River right about this same spot where this "accident" happened yesterday?  He never saw it coming because he was jogging south and the car was also heading south, and rode over the curb and killed him.  

Just an "accident".

Hmmmmh?