A grassroots organization focused on the intelligent and sustainable development, preservation and revitalization of Tulsa.
 
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
November 20, 2017, 04:58:47 pm
Pages: [1] 2   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: 'One Voice' - The Chambers'  (Read 7155 times)
Wrinkle
Guest
« on: December 22, 2008, 12:54:09 am »

I been having trouble with the Chambers' "One Voice" Program.

A week ago Thursday, the Chamber submitted Item 8a  to our City Council.

For what wasn't exactly clear to me, but the Council tabled it indefinitely by a 6-2 vote with Christiansen absent and Councilors Patrick and Gomez voting NO.  The immediately preceding Item 8a was a vote for 'Approval of the City of Tulsaís proposed Legislative Agenda for 2009', which passed 8-0 and contains 9 issues of mostly local interest but with some Federal and State implications.

Last Thursday's Council Agenda had two items related to the Chambers' 'One Voice Program' again listed, Items 8a & 8b.

    8a     "Reconsideration of Approval the Tulsa Chamberís 'One Voice' Legislative Program. 08-2049-4"

    8b    "Approval of the Tulsa Chamberís 'One Voice' Legislative Program."

Here's a link to the entire 'One Voice' Legislative Program PDF File which lists 10 Federal, 10 State and 3 Local issues the Chamber intends to seek. There's many issues addressed in this Program, which amounts to a Political Agenda for the Chamber's operations intent.

One item relating to immigration issues, and directly counter to our popular HB 1804 to which the Chamber is formally opposed and has joined suit to have it stopped,  is the reason Councilors tabled the thing the first time.

As I read this entire document, I started to wonder why the Chamber even sought the Council's approval in the first place. It is, after all, the Chambers' political agenda, not the City's, and includes segregated issues at the Federal, State and Local level.

Then it dawned on me. The Chamber is using, or plans to use, this Resolution as wholesale, Council-authorized support of not only its' own agenda, but to authorize the spending of City provided funding to assist in achieving them. IOW, this is how the Chamber intends to spend all the Hotel Tax we provide the Chamber.

Now it makes sense. They need the City to sign off on what they will be spending our money doing.

Doesn't that seem more than a bit bass-akwards?

After all, why would we want to authorize them to spend our money fighting against something we generally support?

Seems to me our Council and Mayor should get together and determine the City's Legislative Agenda (as they apparently have in the prior week) and ask the Chamber, via their Board and by their vote,  if they're willing to adopt it, and spend our money doing the associated work, not the other way around.

Isn't the Chamber doing this effectively handing them a bunch of money then asking what they intend to spend it on? We, the City, should be telling the Chamber how we expect them to spend our money.

If there's some particular policy they can't embrace, then they can just do nothing, not spend our money, or do  something else with their own money, and/or not take our money in the first place.

My gut instincts were correct, it is odd the way it's being done.

It's also flat out wrong.  Let's start with the Chamber adopting the City of Tulsa's Legislative Agenda and let them spend our money helping to achieve those things. 'One Voice' would work fine, so long as it's ours. Besides that, the 'Chamber' is a regional organization, not specific to the City of Tulsa, remember? There is absolutely no reason the City Council should be adopting their agenda, especially those parts where there is disagreement.

I haven't heard yet what happened last Thursday, and the 'Minutes' portion of the form is blank at this point,  but hope the thing remains tabled so it can be discussed further.
Logged
RecycleMichael
truth teller
T-Town Elder
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 12861


« Reply #1 on: December 22, 2008, 08:00:28 am »

"Never hold discussions with the monkey when the organ grinder is in the room."
 
Winston Churchill
Logged

Power is nothing till you use it.
Wrinkle
Guest
« Reply #2 on: December 22, 2008, 09:52:15 am »

quote:
Originally posted by RecycleMichael

"Never hold discussions with the monkey when the organ grinder is in the room."
 
Winston Churchill



I think you applied the wrong quote. It should've been, "I'm way too close to the situation to be able to comment on it without affecting my affiliations".

Having none of those affiliations, I'm free to speak my mind, say what's right. And, yes, I fully expected Chamber members to read this, and hopefully explain themselves. Guessing they may have a hard time doing so.


Logged
Wrinkle
Guest
« Reply #3 on: December 22, 2008, 09:55:20 am »

quote:
Originally posted by inteller

Not surprised one bit that the two yes men (Gomez and Patrick) voted to not table it.  These two just don't get it how much their voting records make them look like bought and pais for politicians.



Agreed. Gomez is already toast. Even Extra Pro-illegal Immigration Maria had more dignity.

Logged
RecycleMichael
truth teller
T-Town Elder
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 12861


« Reply #4 on: December 22, 2008, 10:02:59 am »

quote:
Originally posted by Wrinkle

I think you applied the wrong quote. It should've been, "I'm way too close to the situation to be able to comment on it without affecting my affiliations".



I am not a member of the Tulsa Metro Chamber of Commerce...I am a member of the Collinsville and Jenks Chambers, however.

You shouldn't imply that I am. Especially when I am public with my profile and you hide and don't let anyone know who you really are.

Please don't lecture me on freedom to speak when you insist on hiding.

Logged

Power is nothing till you use it.
Wrinkle
Guest
« Reply #5 on: December 22, 2008, 10:10:00 am »

quote:
Originally posted by RecycleMichael

quote:
Originally posted by Wrinkle

I think you applied the wrong quote. It should've been, "I'm way too close to the situation to be able to comment on it without affecting my affiliations".



I am not a member of the Tulsa Metro Chamber of Commerce...I am a member of the Collinsville and Jenks Chambers, however.

You shouldn't imply that I am. Especially when I am public with my profile and you hide and don't let anyone know who you really are.

Please don't lecture me on freedom to speak when you insist on hiding.





Well, at least you understand why I remain anonymous.

Didn't imply you were a member of the Tulsa METRO Chamber, just close enough that what you say here can affect you personally.

Logged
waterboy
Guest
« Reply #6 on: December 22, 2008, 10:51:39 am »

Should Gomez ignore his constituency? Whether their stand on 1804 is right or wrong, his district is heavily populated with Hispanic voters. He is my councilor as well, though I didn't support him. But realistically his sin here is only one of expediency. He knew the issue would fail and chose to cast a vote that would help him in re-election.  

One wonders if the Chamber could survive without the hotel tax revenues. The efficacy of that revenue transfer certainly needs to be explored.
Logged
waterboy
Guest
« Reply #7 on: December 22, 2008, 11:58:33 am »

quote:
Originally posted by inteller

the metro chambers days are numbered.  that is why they came out with this preemptive move to develop this one voice plan because they know they are not representing Tulsa's best interests.



But they are comprised of, and led by, some of the most respected corporate leaders in the community. People who have graduated from Leadership Tulsa, who have masters degrees, who have experience in running huge corporations etc. How could they not meet our interests? Or, perhaps they perceive their interests as being the same as the rest of us?

The rank and file membership seems to consist of small business networkers who are willing to pay the $350 fees to be able to smooze. Fair enough.

I think the real power in Tulsa is in the boards and authorities. The Chamber is just the pep squad.
Logged
waterboy
Guest
« Reply #8 on: December 22, 2008, 01:42:41 pm »

Sardonic. I am not impressed with titles or experience. No proof whatsoever that they are related to good managerial or leadership skills. Remember, a good doctor during the Civil War was the one with the most blood on his smock and the most appendages on the ground next to him.[Wink]
Logged
RecycleMichael
truth teller
T-Town Elder
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 12861


« Reply #9 on: December 22, 2008, 01:52:09 pm »

quote:
Originally posted by Wrinkle
Didn't imply you were a member of the Tulsa METRO Chamber, just close enough that what you say here can affect you personally.


Everything I write on this forum can and has affected me personally. I have some scars to prove it.

The best thing going in my favor is that I don't have that much to lose. It is not that good a job.

I don't believe the Chanmber of Commerce is this big evil thing that others on this forum do. They push many positive things in this community and convince their members to get involved in moving this city forward.

Yes, there are times when I think they get involved in stuff that is none of their business. I could go on all day about some of their (and lack of) promotions of our fair city, but unless I am willing to shell out the dues and work on some committees, I feel it is unproductive to just attack them from an anonymous position.
Logged

Power is nothing till you use it.
Double A
Sofa King Banned
City Father
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2718


WWW
« Reply #10 on: December 22, 2008, 06:19:52 pm »

quote:
Originally posted by inteller

Not surprised one bit that the two yes men (Gomez and Patrick) voted to not table it.  These two just don't get it how much their voting records make them look like bought and pais for politicians.



They are in complete denial if they have any delusions of being elected to another term. Gomez may have more to answer for than just his voting record, from what I've heard.
Logged

<center>
</center>
The clash of ideas is the sound of freedom. Ars Longa, Vita Brevis!
Wrinkle
Guest
« Reply #11 on: December 23, 2008, 10:56:17 am »

quote:
Originally posted by RecycleMichael

quote:
Originally posted by Wrinkle
Didn't imply you were a member of the Tulsa METRO Chamber, just close enough that what you say here can affect you personally.


Everything I write on this forum can and has affected me personally. I have some scars to prove it.

The best thing going in my favor is that I don't have that much to lose. It is not that good a job.

I don't believe the Chanmber of Commerce is this big evil thing that others on this forum do. They push many positive things in this community and convince their members to get involved in moving this city forward.

Yes, there are times when I think they get involved in stuff that is none of their business. I could go on all day about some of their (and lack of) promotions of our fair city, but unless I am willing to shell out the dues and work on some committees, I feel it is unproductive to just attack them from an anonymous position.



That was your choice when you set up your account here. I chose to remain anon for many of the same reasons.

You'll also note my original posting was not a general attack on the Chamber, it was an attempt to open disussion on a single issue the Chamber themselves initiated.

btw, you do pay dues to the Chamber in some form. The City of Tulsa pays them millions each year, and those are not membership fees.

I was also suggesting those funds are also not to promote the Chambers' Political Agenda as they were hoping to do with the measure presented as "One Voice" to our City Council.

As an aside, my quote was not meant to be an attack on you either, just a reality statement of fact. So, if you would, please stop lecturing me.




Logged
RecycleMichael
truth teller
T-Town Elder
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 12861


« Reply #12 on: December 23, 2008, 12:54:22 pm »

I believe the majority of the money paid to the Chamber from the City of Tulsa is a pass-through of collected hotel/motel tax revenue.

I did not stay overnight at a Tulsa hotel last year.
Logged

Power is nothing till you use it.
RecycleMichael
truth teller
T-Town Elder
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 12861


« Reply #13 on: December 23, 2008, 12:56:48 pm »

quote:
Originally posted by Wrinkle
You'll also note my original posting was not a general attack on the Chamber, it was an attempt to open disussion on a single issue the Chamber themselves initiated.



So you really don't care about the money the Chamber is paid...or that they presented their legislative goals to the council before the council had made their own list...you are just pissed that they want to repeal HB 1804.
Logged

Power is nothing till you use it.
Wrinkle
Guest
« Reply #14 on: December 23, 2008, 01:33:33 pm »

quote:
Originally posted by RecycleMichael

I believe the majority of the money paid to the Chamber from the City of Tulsa is a pass-through of collected hotel/motel tax revenue.

I did not stay overnight at a Tulsa hotel last year.



Doesn't matter, the Hotel tax revenue is money spent by the City regardless of source. A passthrough doesn't mean it doesn't come in. Try to tell the IRS that about your income.

So, either something doesn't get done which may have, or funding from existing sources pay to do those same things.

If the education clan can say tax cuts 'cost' them, I can claim the Chamber costs me/us.


Logged
Pages: [1] 2   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

 
  Hosted by TulsaConnect and Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines
 

Mission

 

"TulsaNow's Mission is to help Tulsa become the most vibrant, diverse, sustainable and prosperous city of our size. We achieve this by focusing on the development of Tulsa's distinctive identity and economic growth around a dynamic, urban core, complemented by a constellation of livable, thriving communities."
more...

 

Contact

 

2210 S Main St.
Tulsa, OK 74114
(918) 409-2669
info@tulsanow.org