Tulsa World Says We're Out of Step

[Neptune]

If you're so inclined, you might check into Saint Augustine sod as opposed to Fescue.  I think Saint Augustine grows well here, I know it grows well a little south of here.  Like Fescue, it's got the same ability to grow in shady areas.  Like Bermuda, it's a "spreader" plant instead of growing in clumps, and I believe it takes less water.

Fescue is generally very expensive to maintain, IF you want it to look good; reseeding twice a year, tons of water.  If you don't dump high maintenance into it, Fescue ends up being a weed.

[sgrizzle]

quote:Originally posted by Hometown

quote:Originally posted by sgrizzle

Water and trash run $100? I have a 2000sqft house with 4 people and mine is half that.

Keep in mind that your house in CA might've been different building materials & efficiency.

I have a half acre with landscaping and fescue and I have to water all year round.  Do you?  Maybe you know something I don't.

You have a larger yard than I do, and my zoisia doesn't need as much water. Is your yard that shaded or did you pick fescue for looks?

[sgrizzle]

quote:Originally posted by Hometown


I started paying attention to the other shoppers a while back and they were paying about the same or more.  My partner cooks from scratch just about every night.  He's a cook.  We shop at Reasors and Las Americas.

Maybe you should go along to the market with your wife.  You may be paying more than you think.

I'm gonna go with HT on this one. $150-$200 a week is not high, especially if you do a lot of cooking and make things from scratch, like bread. If you do cook that much, you really have to look at coupons, bulk buys, that kinda stuff.

[Hometown]

quote:Originally posted by sgrizzle

quote:Originally posted by Hometown

quote:Originally posted by sgrizzle

Water and trash run $100? I have a 2000sqft house with 4 people and mine is half that.

Keep in mind that your house in CA might've been different building materials & efficiency.

I have a half acre with landscaping and fescue and I have to water all year round.  Do you?  Maybe you know something I don't.

You have a larger yard than I do, and my zoisia doesn't need as much water. Is your yard that shaded or did you pick fescue for looks?

Previous owner picked fescue.  I'm surprised that you know about your zoisia.  I pegged you as a macho, not a gardener.  Maybe you are a sensitive macho.

Will check out the St. Augustine grass.  Maybe we can use somewhere else down the line.

[sgrizzle]

quote:Originally posted by Hometown


Previous owner picked fescue.  I'm surprised that you know about your zoisia.  I pegged you as a macho, not a gardener.  Maybe you are a sensitive macho.

Will check out the St. Augustine grass.  Maybe we can use somewhere else down the line.

I put down a pallette of zoisia last year when I built a new courtyard.

Macho? Well there's a first.

[waterboy]

quote:Originally posted by Wilbur

quote:Originally posted by waterboy

quote:Originally posted by Wilbur

quote:Originally posted by waterboy

quote:Originally posted by Wilbur

quote:Originally posted by Hometown[/i

Yah.  I hear where you're coming from.  We really suck.

1.  Lowest gas prices in the country.
2.  Low cost of living.
3.  Our housing market basically unaffected.
4.  Low unemployment.
5.  A still decent economy.

Too bad we aren't doing as great as everyone else.

Wake up Wilbur! Stop believing the news that only covers the last fifteen minutes and only an inch deep.

1.I assume you mean gasoline and not gas- We are close to the rest of the country and the lower prices are killing our state tax revenues. Other states don't rely on gasl. revenues as much as we do.

2.Low cost of living is balanced off with LOW payscales and a lower quality of life. Easy to live here if you have good income or income from out of state. Otherwise its a wash.

3.Housing market unnaffected? Pay attention to the signs my friend. Real estate signs. Lots of new rental property around town as people give up their homes because of the mortgage fiasco. Yes, it hit here too but don't expect to hear about it from your Realtor@ friends or the COC. But take a little drive through north Tulsa and check out the vacant homes that only a year ago were rented out. Now they're being dismantled by thieves. Spend some time looking at the hundreds of foreclosures offered up by property companies like Perry who leveraged their properties and now can't make payments. We lost over 30,000 immigrants due to HB1804 and that didn't help either. Check into the average selling time of a listing and note the increase in listings all over town. Talk to a home builder.

4. Low unemployment? What is your latest quote and from where? There is a lag in reporting and actual numbers. Cox just laid off about a thousand and stopped hiring. Office Depot has a hiring freeze as do most retail employers.  Sunday classifieds lowest I've seen in a decade. Especially note very few retail help wanted ads with Christmas approaching.

5. Still decent economy? Says who? You got a good job well then bully for you. We are a little out of phase with the rest of the country economically but you're p***ing into the wind if you think we're in good shape in Tulsa.

Don't let facts get in the way of a good argument:

1.  Gasoline:  US average = $2.22, Tulsa at $1.73.
http://www.eia.doe.gov/oil_gas/petroleum/data_publications/wrgp/mogas_home_page.html

2.  Cost of Living:  Oklahoma ranks below average.
http://www.top50states.com/cost-of-living-by-state.html

3.  Housing market:
http://www.housingpredictor.com/oklahoma.html

4.  Unemployment:  Oklahoma has 6th lowest rate.
http://money.cnn.com/pf/features/lists/state_unemployment/

5.  Economy:  most look at the health of the economy on the above factors.

And don't let reading comprehension or reality get in your way. Oh, yeah, that's why you are such a good little red republican.

Your first two points may be true but are irrelevant. Gasoline prices are fluctuating and dependent upon supply issues. Has no bearing on OK as a great place to live. Probably reflects that we have less demand and oversupply, an indication of a poor economy.

Having a low cost of living is as illusory as noting that bread only cost a nickel during the depression. We make less money here than elsewhere in the country. We are a cheap labor state and likely to stay that way. So, you don't pay as much for your housing but you don't make as much either. Food, cars, utilities, crime are all comparable in cost to the rest of the country so your benefit (if there is one) is that
you have less selection in goods, services and the arts, but the selections you do have are less costly. That's lower quality of life. Its like comparing life on the farm to NYC and only using cost of living as your criteria.

Your sources are also suspect:

"The unemployment rates below are for September and were released on October 21, 2008."

Read past an inch deep. These are figures that coincided with or slightly preceded the mortgage meltdown. IOW, they don’t reflect the ripple that is now reaching out to smaller markets in the Midwest. Not timely info.

"A housing slump has hit Oklahoma City. Rising prices and foreclosures attribute to the slow down. But Oklahoma City hasn’t experienced high rates of foreclosures like other areas.
Oklahoma City is forecast by Housing Predictor to see home prices decrease marginally from what it has experienced over the last two years, but still muster 2.5% in appreciation in 2008.
 

  City        Forecast
  Oklahoma City            2.5%
  Tulsa           2.1%
  Edmond            2.6%
  Lawton           1.9%
The Tulsa market has seen more foreclosures than Oklahoma City, mainly due to a weakening job market. But new businesses will bring more jobs to the area in 2008 to bolster the economy."

This includes the remarks you left out. Read them carefully Wilbur. They quote reality which is that OKC and Tulsa have been hit hard by foreclosures, then estimate a growth pattern that matches the last few years in this state. Based on what? Pretty much an educated guess since they rely on journalists, economists and real estate insiders to make these predictions but fail to cite any of them or their timeliness. In fact, there is no way to even find out who these guys are!

So if you believe in this stuff, you voted for McCain, and I'm gradually starting to understand why.

Lets resort to name calling, that's really helping your cause.  NOT!

You might be surprised to know that gasoline fluctuates in this state as it does in every other state.  Oklahoma always ranks near the bottom in price.

To claim my source for unemployment is suspect because it was released on October 21 is bogus.  Particularly since the November 21 report hasn't been released yet.  I used the latest figures.  Do you have something other then a false claim that says in one month Oklahoma has somehow surpassed the rest of the country in unemployment.

And, the housing market is still growing in the state, based on your own post.  Much different in other states.

Come on.  Facts!  Not name calling and unsubstantiated beliefs.

Since when is calling someone a "good little red republican" construed as name calling!? If the shoe fits. Honestly, I mean no harm.

You're talking jibberish Wilbur. Just because your site isn't timely doesn't mean I'm at fault. You chose it. And I didn't say we surpassed other states though I suspect we will. If you have money, buy some real estate right now in OK. You can swing some good deals. Real estate performance figures are always several months in coming though so don't wait till the "official" numbers show they're in decline. Of course, good luck in renting them or rehabbing them.

BTW, Oklahoma does not always rank in the bottom for gasoline prices. Lived here very long? And that hardly counts as a major benefit of living here anyway. Its actually better for us if the cost of gasoline is high my friend. Our state is dependent on their taxes.

I have no cause. Unlike you, my candidate won and I am merely dismayed at the continued warped reality this state lives in. You gave me some insight to the thought process.

[Hawkins]

Yeah, we're pretty backwards.

This make Fark.com today:

http://www.kjrh.com/mostpopular/story.aspx?content_id=7a12f9bd-67c3-416d-83bd-a63e96959fae

They reported the voter turnout for their town, but not who won?? Sad.

[TURobY]

It was also on CNN's front page yesterday.

[PonderInc]

Oklahoma's so red, the dirt got stained....

[Wilbur]

quote:Originally posted by waterboy

quote:Originally posted by Wilbur

quote:Originally posted by waterboy

quote:Originally posted by Wilbur

quote:Originally posted by waterboy

quote:Originally posted by Wilbur

quote:Originally posted by Hometown[/i

Yah.  I hear where you're coming from.  We really suck.

1.  Lowest gas prices in the country.
2.  Low cost of living.
3.  Our housing market basically unaffected.
4.  Low unemployment.
5.  A still decent economy.

Too bad we aren't doing as great as everyone else.

Wake up Wilbur! Stop believing the news that only covers the last fifteen minutes and only an inch deep.

1.I assume you mean gasoline and not gas- We are close to the rest of the country and the lower prices are killing our state tax revenues. Other states don't rely on gasl. revenues as much as we do.

2.Low cost of living is balanced off with LOW payscales and a lower quality of life. Easy to live here if you have good income or income from out of state. Otherwise its a wash.

3.Housing market unnaffected? Pay attention to the signs my friend. Real estate signs. Lots of new rental property around town as people give up their homes because of the mortgage fiasco. Yes, it hit here too but don't expect to hear about it from your Realtor@ friends or the COC. But take a little drive through north Tulsa and check out the vacant homes that only a year ago were rented out. Now they're being dismantled by thieves. Spend some time looking at the hundreds of foreclosures offered up by property companies like Perry who leveraged their properties and now can't make payments. We lost over 30,000 immigrants due to HB1804 and that didn't help either. Check into the average selling time of a listing and note the increase in listings all over town. Talk to a home builder.

4. Low unemployment? What is your latest quote and from where? There is a lag in reporting and actual numbers. Cox just laid off about a thousand and stopped hiring. Office Depot has a hiring freeze as do most retail employers.  Sunday classifieds lowest I've seen in a decade. Especially note very few retail help wanted ads with Christmas approaching.

5. Still decent economy? Says who? You got a good job well then bully for you. We are a little out of phase with the rest of the country economically but you're p***ing into the wind if you think we're in good shape in Tulsa.

Don't let facts get in the way of a good argument:

1.  Gasoline:  US average = $2.22, Tulsa at $1.73.
http://www.eia.doe.gov/oil_gas/petroleum/data_publications/wrgp/mogas_home_page.html

2.  Cost of Living:  Oklahoma ranks below average.
http://www.top50states.com/cost-of-living-by-state.html

3.  Housing market:
http://www.housingpredictor.com/oklahoma.html

4.  Unemployment:  Oklahoma has 6th lowest rate.
http://money.cnn.com/pf/features/lists/state_unemployment/

5.  Economy:  most look at the health of the economy on the above factors.

And don't let reading comprehension or reality get in your way. Oh, yeah, that's why you are such a good little red republican.

Your first two points may be true but are irrelevant. Gasoline prices are fluctuating and dependent upon supply issues. Has no bearing on OK as a great place to live. Probably reflects that we have less demand and oversupply, an indication of a poor economy.

Having a low cost of living is as illusory as noting that bread only cost a nickel during the depression. We make less money here than elsewhere in the country. We are a cheap labor state and likely to stay that way. So, you don't pay as much for your housing but you don't make as much either. Food, cars, utilities, crime are all comparable in cost to the rest of the country so your benefit (if there is one) is that
you have less selection in goods, services and the arts, but the selections you do have are less costly. That's lower quality of life. Its like comparing life on the farm to NYC and only using cost of living as your criteria.

Your sources are also suspect:

"The unemployment rates below are for September and were released on October 21, 2008."

Read past an inch deep. These are figures that coincided with or slightly preceded the mortgage meltdown. IOW, they don’t reflect the ripple that is now reaching out to smaller markets in the Midwest. Not timely info.

"A housing slump has hit Oklahoma City. Rising prices and foreclosures attribute to the slow down. But Oklahoma City hasn’t experienced high rates of foreclosures like other areas.
Oklahoma City is forecast by Housing Predictor to see home prices decrease marginally from what it has experienced over the last two years, but still muster 2.5% in appreciation in 2008.
 

  City        Forecast
  Oklahoma City            2.5%
  Tulsa           2.1%
  Edmond            2.6%
  Lawton           1.9%
The Tulsa market has seen more foreclosures than Oklahoma City, mainly due to a weakening job market. But new businesses will bring more jobs to the area in 2008 to bolster the economy."

This includes the remarks you left out. Read them carefully Wilbur. They quote reality which is that OKC and Tulsa have been hit hard by foreclosures, then estimate a growth pattern that matches the last few years in this state. Based on what? Pretty much an educated guess since they rely on journalists, economists and real estate insiders to make these predictions but fail to cite any of them or their timeliness. In fact, there is no way to even find out who these guys are!

So if you believe in this stuff, you voted for McCain, and I'm gradually starting to understand why.

Lets resort to name calling, that's really helping your cause.  NOT!

You might be surprised to know that gasoline fluctuates in this state as it does in every other state.  Oklahoma always ranks near the bottom in price.

To claim my source for unemployment is suspect because it was released on October 21 is bogus.  Particularly since the November 21 report hasn't been released yet.  I used the latest figures.  Do you have something other then a false claim that says in one month Oklahoma has somehow surpassed the rest of the country in unemployment.

And, the housing market is still growing in the state, based on your own post.  Much different in other states.

Come on.  Facts!  Not name calling and unsubstantiated beliefs.

Since when is calling someone a "good little red republican" construed as name calling!? If the shoe fits. Honestly, I mean no harm.

You're talking jibberish Wilbur. Just because your site isn't timely doesn't mean I'm at fault. You chose it. And I didn't say we surpassed other states though I suspect we will. If you have money, buy some real estate right now in OK. You can swing some good deals. Real estate performance figures are always several months in coming though so don't wait till the "official" numbers show they're in decline. Of course, good luck in renting them or rehabbing them.

BTW, Oklahoma does not always rank in the bottom for gasoline prices. Lived here very long? And that hardly counts as a major benefit of living here anyway. Its actually better for us if the cost of gasoline is high my friend. Our state is dependent on their taxes.

I have no cause. Unlike you, my candidate won and I am merely dismayed at the continued warped reality this state lives in. You gave me some insight to the thought process.

Name a state that voted democrat with a lower unemployment rate?  The top six, including Oklahoma, all voted republican.

[waterboy]

I won't go internet surfing for that one. I'm guessing Pennsylvania where Philadelphia reported today they may have to file bankruptcy. Seems the unemployment and foreclosures there are unsightly. They went Dem by about a dozen %.

whoops! I got that backwards. I'm left handed AND dyslectic!

One state might be Massachusetts, another might be Colorado, another might be Nevada. But unemployment wasn't the key to this race or why we went double mystery red. Several of the red states are facing unemployment problems. The issues were foreclosures, financial shenanigans, lobbyists, war and competence. If McCain had successfully addressed those issues he at least had a chance.

[waterboy]

Well, not Mass, Nevada or Colorado either. [:I]

I anxiously await the unemployment figures for October, just after the meltdown and bailout. I suspect that there are early updates available to forecast the increase in job change nationwide but I don't know where to find them.

Arizona btw, is one of the leaders in unemployment which could explain the closeness of the race there. If they show that OK has increased its unemployment you'll need to 'splain that. My gut is that unemployment was not a factor in our crimson red glory moment.

[nathanm]

quote:Originally posted by Wilbur


Don't let facts get in the way of a good argument:

1.  Gasoline:  US average = $2.22, Tulsa at $1.73.
http://www.eia.doe.gov/oil_gas/petroleum/data_publications/wrgp/mogas_home_page.html

3.  Housing market:
http://www.housingpredictor.com/oklahoma.html

One of the lowest gasoline taxes in the nation will do that to gasoline prices.

As far as the housing market is concerned, you haven't looked at listings lately, have you? Just in the past month or two things have gotten significantly worse. $150,000 goes a whole lot farther today than it did 6 months ago.

[TulsaFan-inTexas]

quote:Originally posted by Hawkins

Yeah, we're pretty backwards.

This make Fark.com today:

http://www.kjrh.com/mostpopular/story.aspx?content_id=7a12f9bd-67c3-416d-83bd-a63e96959fae

They reported the voter turnout for their town, but not who won?? Sad.

Geez! I'm a conservative and that is sad. It should have been all over the front page. Sapulpa, you don't impress.

BTW, Obama is our next President. Let's hope for the best for him and our country and move on.

[Wilbur]

quote:Originally posted by TulsaFan-inTexas

BTW, Obama is our next President. Let's hope for the best for him and our country and move on.

I couldn't agree more!