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November 17, 2017, 10:30:34 pm
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Author Topic: Better Streetlights for Tulsa  (Read 110215 times)
TulsaGoldenHurriCAN
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« Reply #435 on: August 18, 2017, 10:44:44 am »

Android users got that with 7.0 where you can decide how much blue light you want eliminated.  Its mainstream guys.  Grin

I wonder if the Blue Dome domed lights are based on these in the Brady:

https://goo.gl/maps/u4q49uQYY9M2

Those are actually very good lights, but yes they could be a bit warmer color.  Any manufacturer worth their salt makes 2700K "incandescent look-alike" LEDs these days.

Those look good. That would be pretty neat, those with blue domes.

On a side  note, the Blue Dome and Brady Districts should try to get the power lines buried. That would really clean up the streetscape and give it a real crisp look. Probably several million though, but should be done.
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patric
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« Reply #436 on: August 19, 2017, 04:31:21 pm »

Those look good. That would be pretty neat, those with blue domes.

On a side  note, the Blue Dome and Brady Districts should try to get the power lines buried. That would really clean up the streetscape and give it a real crisp look. Probably several million though, but should be done.


I swear it wasnt me:



Burying utilities would be a no-brainer if tree trimmer's jobs didnt need to be protected.
And speaking of protected, these fixtures could use some anti-Owasso-cheerleader fortifications if they are going to survive downtown.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2017, 04:33:16 pm by patric » Logged

"Tulsa will lay off police and firemen before we will cut back on unnecessarily wasteful streetlights."  -- March 18, 2009 TulsaNow Forum
Cetary
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« Reply #437 on: August 26, 2017, 11:21:00 pm »

Looks like people in DC are pushing for 2700k LED street lights. I do feel that about 2700k will be the sweet spot for outdoor installations.

"At least seven advisory neighborhood commissions and five citizens association groups citywide have already requested that the city only install lights at a color temperature of 2700 Kelvin or less. That figure is in line with recommendations from a task force of residents that has met numerous times with city agencies and neighborhood leaders this year — based on concerns that high-Kelvin LEDs cast a bright, harsh light that can interfere with sleep...Despite protests, though, the city insists that 2700 Kelvin isn’t commercially available to the District and that even if it were, such lights might not be the most effective lights for a given area."

https://currentnewspapers.com/led-streetlight-plan-sees-continued-resistance/

People aren't buying the spiel anymore though.


"A third clarification: Throughout the United States, cities are already installing 2700K streetlights. As of this week, Phoenix has begun installing 100,000 new LED streetlights at 2700K at the request of its residents. There is no need to wait on the warmer 2700K — it is available already...By using a warmer color (of 2700K or lower) in full cut-off design (which directs the light downward) and in the brightness levels needed for good visibility (but no more than is needed), we will all benefit from protection of our health and safety, reduced energy costs, a better view of the night sky, and a more inviting historic ambiance for the District."

https://currentnewspapers.com/letter-to-the-editor-city-should-compromise-on-led-streetlights/

Interestingly Leotek apparently marketed the then special order 2700k Green Cobra as the least resisted LED street light on the market.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2017, 11:26:34 pm by Cetary » Logged
Cetary
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« Reply #438 on: August 31, 2017, 11:18:26 pm »

Some of Phoenix's first 2700k LED street lights are going in. Looks like they went with American Electric, the ATBM to be exact. I just hope their 2700k model is a good deal warmer colored then their 3000k variety. So it looks like American Electric, Cree, and Leotek all offer 2700k cobrahead models.

From what I've been getting online, the construction quality of the American Electric ATB series is quite solid with good heat sinking ,and it comes with replaceable parts which should help to ensure a long fixture life and lower costs. The optics are also quite good at reducing glare in the 3000k and below models. They seem to have a bit better public acceptance as well, speaking for the 3000k and below models.





« Last Edit: August 31, 2017, 11:26:10 pm by Cetary » Logged
Cetary
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« Reply #439 on: September 24, 2017, 10:30:05 pm »

Looks like GE is gearing up their Evolve line with new 2700k fixtures! It looks like they're hitting over 100 lpw even at that low a color temperature, very impressed. It only looks like at about 10, 000 lumens or so that the really high efficiency numbers just start to taper off. To put that into perspective, the Beta LEDway from last decade was barely hitting 83-85 lumens per watt at 4000k, and now we have fixtures that blow them out of the water at 2700k. It's pretty significant as the LEDway saw some pretty widespread usage in Los Angeles' large-scale refit several years back.

 Back in '09-'12 3000k cobraheads were barely even a thing. The Philips Hadco had a special 3000k model that only hit about 65 lumens per watt because it used LEDs made for household lightbulbs and not high powered streetlighting. They were looking at that fixture to light the approach sections of the Golden Gate some time ago at that temperature. They seemed to be making such pains about going 3000k then because of the mediocre efficiency. I suspect GE was probably the same case as they were hitting similar numbers with their 3000k fixtures at the time to. But now the technology has so much improved!

Cree's new XHP 70.2 LED, a 3000 lumen beast of a chip that operates in small clusters of emitters in street lights, is hitting close to !!120!! lumens per watt at 2700k. The technology is totally there to make highly efficient 2700k street lights.
« Last Edit: September 24, 2017, 10:43:49 pm by Cetary » Logged
Cetary
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« Reply #440 on: September 30, 2017, 11:31:13 am »

Concorde ,New Hampshire's new 3000k LED low glare acorns. We really shouldn't be putting up with 4000k-5000k fixtures in new installations anymore. We actually never should've put up with that blue-rich white light.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yZ9G0d5qF2s

What an improvement on 4000k. Now, I'm looking foreword to seeing more 2700k.



« Last Edit: September 30, 2017, 11:35:05 am by Cetary » Logged
patric
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« Reply #441 on: September 30, 2017, 01:20:29 pm »

Concorde ,New Hampshire's new 3000k LED low glare acorns. We really shouldn't be putting up with 4000k-5000k fixtures in new installations anymore. We actually never should've put up with that blue-rich white light.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yZ9G0d5qF2s

What an improvement on 4000k. Now, I'm looking foreword to seeing more 2700k.

The Tulsa Downtown Coordinating Council has plans for converting Acorns, maybe time to put a bug in their ear:

"... a project is underway to convert the insides of all acorn lights to a “night-sky friendly LED fixture.” It won’t change the appearance of the lamps, he said, but it will succeed in directing light to the ground rather than the sky."

Changing the internal optics only works if the outside optics (the acorn globe) is clear and non-refracting.  Otherwise, it ... well... refracts, and scatters your light in directions useless to human vision.  Otherwise, a 2700K retro-fit would be neat.

Looks like people in DC are pushing for 2700k LED street lights. I do feel that about 2700k will be the sweet spot for outdoor installations.

"Despite protests, though, the city insists that 2700 Kelvin isn’t commercially available to the District and that even if it were, such lights might not be the most effective lights for a given area."

Translation: their vendor is telling them to buy what he sells.  Sound familiar Tulsa?
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"Tulsa will lay off police and firemen before we will cut back on unnecessarily wasteful streetlights."  -- March 18, 2009 TulsaNow Forum
heironymouspasparagus
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« Reply #442 on: October 02, 2017, 02:45:59 pm »

Tiny little detour...

Went to 2 Christmas stores last week - one in Dallas and one in OKC.  They now have some 'warm' LED white lights that look much closer to the old incandescent style.  LED's are gonna get there eventually.
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« Reply #443 on: October 02, 2017, 04:03:15 pm »

Tiny little detour...

Went to 2 Christmas stores last week - one in Dallas and one in OKC.  They now have some 'warm' LED white lights that look much closer to the old incandescent style.  LED's are gonna get there eventually.


Tech- and supply-wise, were already there.  Politics is the problem. 
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heironymouspasparagus
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« Reply #444 on: October 02, 2017, 04:12:23 pm »

Tech- and supply-wise, were already there.  Politics is the problem. 


I have made custom incandescent Christmas light strings in the past and just waiting for the white LED's to "get" there.  Can now start to convert.

Also, both places have Shiny Bright ornaments - new!   We have a couple dozen boxes of old ones we love to use, but have enough 'gaps' in the styles so that we can't get the whole effect we want.  Now can get brand new that are the same as all the old ones!   1955, here we come!!  Very fragile glass.  Very expensive compared to plastic - some were $30+ a box (9 to 12 ornaments each)  Christopher Radko.

Ok - next time I mention Christmas lights and ornaments, I will start a new thread....  if there isn't one already out there somewhere...

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“When you wage war on the public schools, you're attacking the mortar that holds the community together. You're not a conservative, you're a vandal.”    - Garrison Keillor

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What you do speaks so loud, I cannot hear what you say.
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« Reply #445 on: October 11, 2017, 12:03:57 pm »

Why does this photo make me hungry?


I got to visit a town almost entirely lit by these. They replaced the Cobra-head style as well as the NEMA residential lights.  Replaces 50w - 250w Sodium lights.
Its available in 3000K and an incredibly simple, shielded design. Can be dimmed wirelessly or by motion control. Made in Georgia.  

http://www.cooperindustries.com/content/dam/public/lighting/products/documents/streetworks/brochures/streetworks-verd-verdeon-bro.pdf
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heironymouspasparagus
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« Reply #446 on: October 16, 2017, 01:17:54 pm »

Concorde ,New Hampshire's new 3000k LED low glare acorns. We really shouldn't be putting up with 4000k-5000k fixtures in new installations anymore. We actually never should've put up with that blue-rich white light.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yZ9G0d5qF2s

What an improvement on 4000k. Now, I'm looking foreword to seeing more 2700k.




I am gonna be a few miles down the road from there in the next couple weeks - will try to go by and look at them and report back.
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“When you wage war on the public schools, you're attacking the mortar that holds the community together. You're not a conservative, you're a vandal.”    - Garrison Keillor

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Cetary
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« Reply #447 on: October 16, 2017, 04:10:51 pm »

I'm really interested in what you see in person at Concorde. They might've had the white balance in that video a bit skewed, so the lights look warmer then in person. I've got a hunch they'll look more like this in person. Not quite as warm feeling, for some reason feels closer to 3500k or maybe even more. This is just speculation though. The optics should be very good though.  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c0bz79F4fcQ

I recently had the opportunity to sample some 3200-3500k LED shoebox fixtures, and they seemed warmer in person then Tucson's "3000k" fixtures. Maybe Patric could explain? The fixtures are sold as 3500k but my light meter showed them dip as warm as 3200k immediately underneath them at full power. They had really nice optics. You could literally stare directly at the emitter arrays, and it hurts very little to almost not at all. Here are a couple of shots of those "3200k-3500k" shoeboxes. Sorry I couldn't get these to post directly. Sad

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B2fHBiEQTxTKSkxZZml4bDVScFE

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2fHBiEQTxTKWWdTZ3BPZDlQQU0/view?usp=sharing


Vs. Tucson's 3000k fixtures which a personally think look closer to 3700k.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2fHBiEQTxTKcWdMSFBGUTNPc1U/view?usp=sharing


I also recently stumbled across this. Apparently the NYPD has taken to blasting residential buildings with 150,000 lumen 4000k assault lights, literally. To give an idea of how much power that is, imagine the power of well over 10 DTU 100 watt metal halide acorns except focused onto your house, and your eyes. Except these towers have 2 to 4 of these 150,000 lumen lights. Got news for you NYPD, lighting doesn't reduce crime!



So offensive! Angry





What's worse is it sounds like they are powering these things with their own diesel generator as opposed to running them off the grid, so now they pollute and make a hell of a racket each night to if you're familiar with construction site light towers.

https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/z48j83/police-floodlights-are-unlikely-to-reduce-crime-but-could-harm-your-health
« Last Edit: October 16, 2017, 04:56:48 pm by Cetary » Logged
Cetary
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« Reply #448 on: October 16, 2017, 04:55:30 pm »

Thought I'd end on a good note. It looks like the lights of Marunouchi, Tokyo are warm white LED, to tie in with the whole holiday lights thing. They're described as to being almost champagne gold coloured. I'm sure the observant will notice the fully sheilded shoebox fixtures on either side of the street that color match as well.







Which dovetails beautifully to Tokyo station a whole warm white experience in itself.



The original page.

https://applian.jp/marunouchi-illumination


By the looks of it Tokyo station's atrium is lit with color temperature shifting fixtures that start at 5000k midday but shift to the warmer 3000k at night, sounds oddly like something Patric was talking about a while ago. I thought the lighting effects on the tops of the windows of Tokyo station were really classic. Turns out they used some sort of linear 2200k white light LED for that warm classical look.

http://www.ledinside.com/lighting/2013/11/tokyo_station_lpa
« Last Edit: October 16, 2017, 05:36:07 pm by Cetary » Logged
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