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Author Topic: Better Streetlights for Tulsa  (Read 110412 times)
patric
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« Reply #90 on: March 29, 2010, 09:16:36 pm »

I like the lighting but am surprised that you haven't stated that the color is too blue/white.  Do you have the spectrum on those lights compared to what you seem to prefer?

The Color Correlated Temperature of those is 6000 degrees Kelvin.
3000K would be closest to incandescent light (and most manufacturers offer the option to order a "warmer" color) so if you can picture those as the same color as your reading light (rather than your TV)...

...but I liked how you could look waaaay down the street and see the street instead of just the streetlights.
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"Tulsa will lay off police and firemen before we will cut back on unnecessarily wasteful streetlights."  -- March 18, 2009 TulsaNow Forum
patric
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« Reply #91 on: May 13, 2010, 09:56:16 pm »


Refining High Brightness White LEDs


Sources of light:
Background -- Ordinary "white" LEDs (bluish)
Middle -- High Pressure Sodium (Tulsa's streetlights)
Foreground -- Warm White LEDs  (around 3000K color)

* LEDvsHPSvsLED.jpg (53.81 KB - downloaded 426 times.)
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"Tulsa will lay off police and firemen before we will cut back on unnecessarily wasteful streetlights."  -- March 18, 2009 TulsaNow Forum
patric
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« Reply #92 on: August 02, 2010, 02:11:04 pm »


Seeing Blue:  LED streetlights


Alternate link:  http://www.southamptontownny.gov/filestorage/596/598/4245/5194/IDA_Seeing_Blue_Nightscape.pdf


(also answers the question of why newer "xenon" headlights are so painful to oncoming traffic).

« Last Edit: December 20, 2012, 12:06:45 pm by patric » Logged

"Tulsa will lay off police and firemen before we will cut back on unnecessarily wasteful streetlights."  -- March 18, 2009 TulsaNow Forum
ARGUS
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« Reply #93 on: August 02, 2010, 03:28:19 pm »

was purchasing petrol at 36&Peoria QT last night under the new HUGE and LONG gas canopy and noticed 3.47 MILLION BUGS...so many I could not keep them out of my eyes....then relized that there are 14 gajillion tooooo may friking lights! I am a QT fan (Chester C taught me to swim in his swimming pool many yrs ago) but geesh too many and too much light(s)!
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« Reply #94 on: August 02, 2010, 03:47:02 pm »

was purchasing petrol at 36&Peoria QT last night under the new HUGE and LONG gas canopy and noticed 3.47 MILLION BUGS...so many I could not keep them out of my eyes....then relized that there are 14 gajillion tooooo may friking lights! I am a QT fan (Chester C taught me to swim in his swimming pool many yrs ago) but geesh too many and too much light(s)!
Petrol?  okay gottsta ask, spend much time across the pond there?
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patric
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« Reply #95 on: August 02, 2010, 10:17:45 pm »

was purchasing petrol at 36&Peoria QT last night under the new HUGE and LONG gas canopy and noticed 3.47 MILLION BUGS...so many I could not keep them out of my eyes....then relized that there are 14 gajillion tooooo may friking lights!

Some city planners read this (even city planners from other cities) so it would be nice if it stayed on the topic of street lighting.

BUT... We DID go into great detail on the lighting at QT's in this thread:
http://www.tulsanow.org/forum/index.php?topic=6838.0
if you want to see what was done and how that turned out. 
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"Tulsa will lay off police and firemen before we will cut back on unnecessarily wasteful streetlights."  -- March 18, 2009 TulsaNow Forum
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« Reply #96 on: August 02, 2010, 11:05:31 pm »

From the picture, I like the warm white LEDs (3000K color).
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patric
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« Reply #97 on: August 03, 2010, 09:22:29 am »

From the picture, I like the warm white LEDs (3000K color).

Most people do, once they've seen it.  It's closest to the look of incandescent light.

The problem with cities in a rush to install any LED street lighting is they dont take that into account.
With federal stimulus money in hand, and a deadline to spend it, they will order the brightest ones available, which unfortunately are the worst color blue.
Then we're stuck with that choice for the next 15-20 years.
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« Reply #98 on: August 03, 2010, 12:43:32 pm »

Most people do, once they've seen it.  It's closest to the look of incandescent light.

The problem with cities in a rush to install any LED street lighting is they dont take that into account.
With federal stimulus money in hand, and a deadline to spend it, they will order the brightest ones available, which unfortunately are the worst color blue.
Then we're stuck with that choice for the next 15-20 years.

I understand the environmental concerns about the "blue" LEDs and the effects on human and animal populations. But I've always liked the look of the "cools" better than the "warms"; always gave me a sense of "futuristic".
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« Reply #99 on: August 03, 2010, 01:52:36 pm »

I understand the environmental concerns about the "blue" LEDs and the effects on human and animal populations. But I've always liked the look of the "cools" better than the "warms"; always gave me a sense of "futuristic".

Really? They give me a sense of an operating table.
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patric
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« Reply #100 on: August 03, 2010, 02:10:31 pm »

Really? They give me a sense of an operating table.

...or a mausoleum.
Aside from the adverse health and environmental issues of blue-rich light at night,
it's not an inviting color for public spaces, which is counter-productive if you are trying to attract more commerce or "friendly eyes" to make streets safer. 
That's not to say that prudent use of blue light doesnt have it's place, it's just that it shouldnt be used for illumination of streets and public places.
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« Reply #101 on: October 07, 2010, 07:14:32 pm »

(updated link)
http://docs.darksky.org/Nightscape/Article_SeeingBlue.pdf

Poorly designed outdoor lighting is one of the most conspicuous forms of energy waste. The global call to conserve energy resources has cities scrambling to replace public lighting with brand new systems.   In the U.S., changes are further spurred by federal economic stimulus funding. 
Technology under development for decades has produced a number of options, many with a potential for energy savings. Of these, high brightness white light emitting diodes (LEDs) have emerged as an industry favorite.
Many of these new options have never been applied on a broad scale, and may have unexpected consequences if widely used for outdoor lighting.  In particular, the stronger blue emission produced by white light sources, such as LEDs, has been shown to have increased negative effects on sky glow, and has a greater impact on animal behavior and circadian rhythms than other types of light.  Widespread installation of white light sources rich in blue emission is among the largest concerns.
Lamp choices made today will affect night lighting for decades, maybe longer.  It is imperative that decision makers understand the consequences—both positive and negative—of lighting choices.
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"Tulsa will lay off police and firemen before we will cut back on unnecessarily wasteful streetlights."  -- March 18, 2009 TulsaNow Forum
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« Reply #102 on: October 18, 2010, 04:04:22 pm »

Ha! I didn't listen to Patrick about outdoor lights. Silly me. Friday night a young couple parked their car in front of the home next to me and proceeded up the steps to my front porch where they commenced taking all the Halloween decorations my lovely wife had smartly arranged. This was about 8:00pm. I had left the front porch light on, the car port light on and of course my motion detector floods activated.

That made it very easy for them to see what they wanted. Unfortunately for them, I was at my desk using the laptop and I saw them clearly through the partly open blinds. They looked in the front door but neglected to seem me in the office.

So, I jumped up and chased them off the porch. Tackled the young man while his girlfriend jumped in her car and tried to leave. By the time we hit the street he had lost his hat and glasses and started making lame excuses for their behavior.

I had the jump on him but let him go. His girlfriend came back to get him. He returned twice more and once attempted to engage me in fisticuffs. Even though I had a couple snorts of a very fine Vodka, he knew he had imbibed even more and wasn't up for it. I gave the hat and glasses to the cop who responded.

Sooooo, now I keep the lights off and depend on the motion detector to tip me off. It lights the yard but not the house. Even old farts learn eventually.
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« Reply #103 on: October 19, 2010, 08:10:44 am »

WB, I think you got a couple who evolved from the shallow end of the gene pool.  I still think a porch light is a great deterrent to most potential thieves or vandals.  Given a choice I personally believe most burglars would prefer to have as little light to be identified by as possible.
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« Reply #104 on: October 19, 2010, 08:20:09 am »

WB, I think you got a couple who evolved from the shallow end of the gene pool.  I still think a porch light is a great deterrent to most potential thieves or vandals.  Given a choice I personally believe most burglars would prefer to have as little light to be identified by as possible.

I know this will probably make Patric pass out but I have two (front and back) mercury vapor lamps that shine like the sun in my yard.  Turned on at night; have a photosensor to turn them off during the day.  I prefer safety.
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