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November 17, 2017, 08:41:08 pm
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Author Topic: "Heart of Southdown"?  (Read 10407 times)
Gaspar
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« Reply #30 on: July 02, 2008, 02:08:16 pm »

quote:
Originally posted by sgrizzle

I'm ready for a downtown theater. Especially if it's one like cinemark with some regular food.

Now THAT is a good lunch break.



I've been to theaters in other parts of the country that serve GOOD food and beer.

They even have intermissions so that people can return the beer!

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TulsaPride
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« Reply #31 on: July 02, 2008, 03:00:33 pm »

What we need is an "Alamo Drafthouse" in our downtown. They have a pretty good menu and people seem to love these places.

http://www.drafthouse.com/
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TheArtist
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« Reply #32 on: July 02, 2008, 05:23:26 pm »

I like the idea of a Movie Theater downtown,,, I still also like my idea of a small, "trendy" bowling alley/martini lounge type place.

I like going downtown and taking visitors there or going on a date downtown. But it would be nice to have something else to do other than eat or clubbing. You cant do just that for a whole evening or day. And you kind of have to plan ahead for PAC events and such. Would be nice to be able to spend half a day downtown doing different things. Go downtown, park once or take mass transit, then a day and evenings worth of stuff all within walking distance. Would be reeeally nice.
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"When you only have two pennies left in the world, buy a loaf of bread with one, and a lily with the other."-Chinese proverb. "Arts a staple. Like bread or wine or a warm coat in winter. Those who think it is a luxury have only a fragment of a mind. Mans spirit grows hungry for art in the same way h
inteller
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« Reply #33 on: July 02, 2008, 06:24:27 pm »

Between Regal Plaza and Memorial Commons, I'd say that that part of town is going to be pretty happening.....except for the fact that 101st and Mem is a congested nightmare that is only going to get worse without widening.  It is projected to surpass even the worst spots along 71st in terms of traffic.  A clear failure in planning. (I'm looking at YOU INCOG)
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joiei
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« Reply #34 on: July 02, 2008, 06:44:33 pm »

quote:
Originally posted by inteller

Between Regal Plaza and Memorial Commons, I'd say that that part of town is going to be pretty happening.....except for the fact that 101st and Mem is a congested nightmare that is only going to get worse without widening.  It is projected to surpass even the worst spots along 71st in terms of traffic.  A clear failure in planning. (I'm looking at YOU INCOG)

And I pretty much avoid going to that part of Memorial if at all possible because of the traffic nightmare.  

Now a movie palace downtown,  for some perspectives, downtown Ft Worth has 2 movie complexes and they are busy.  Oldtown Wichita has a multiplex.  How much do these theaters contribute to the life of downtown?
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inteller
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« Reply #35 on: July 02, 2008, 07:10:53 pm »

quote:
Originally posted by joiei

quote:
Originally posted by inteller

Between Regal Plaza and Memorial Commons, I'd say that that part of town is going to be pretty happening.....except for the fact that 101st and Mem is a congested nightmare that is only going to get worse without widening.  It is projected to surpass even the worst spots along 71st in terms of traffic.  A clear failure in planning. (I'm looking at YOU INCOG)

And I pretty much avoid going to that part of Memorial if at all possible because of the traffic nightmare.  

Now a movie palace downtown,  for some perspectives, downtown Ft Worth has 2 movie complexes and they are busy.  Oldtown Wichita has a multiplex.  How much do these theaters contribute to the life of downtown?



Tulsa has a movie theater downtown....they just don't show anything you'd want to watch [}:)]
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sgrizzle
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« Reply #36 on: July 02, 2008, 09:07:07 pm »

quote:
Originally posted by inteller


Tulsa has a movie theater downtown....they just don't show anything you'd want to watch [}:)]



Thanks for reminding us...

As Gaspar stated, it is a rel boon for development. With a theater, everyone spends about 3 hours so you are guaranteed they will be looking for a meal either before or after. I personally have been frustrated with the fact that if you go into a 7pm movie you come out to find the sun down and the city turned off. Late night dining, shopping and places like bars and cosmos would get business from movie patrons and since movie times are staggered there would always be people on their way into or out of the theater. I would think 8-10 screens would work well. You could even build a fairly streamlined theater like riverwalk and you would have hundreds of people moving through with only a handful of employees. Put it in a old-looking building with an old style theater marquee and the look would be complete.
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TheArtist
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« Reply #37 on: July 03, 2008, 06:51:05 am »

A friend went to OKC to the new Warren Theater in Moore. Raved about it and wished there were something like it here. Said it had an art deco theme. Old timey curtains that pulled back, balconies, a bar and lounge, etc.  That would be perfect for downtown Tulsa. Perhaps someone should contact them and mention our new ballpark and arena. Get downtown on their radar.



http://www.warrentheatres.com/moorebalcony.asp



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"When you only have two pennies left in the world, buy a loaf of bread with one, and a lily with the other."-Chinese proverb. "Arts a staple. Like bread or wine or a warm coat in winter. Those who think it is a luxury have only a fragment of a mind. Mans spirit grows hungry for art in the same way h
waterboy
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« Reply #38 on: July 03, 2008, 07:23:05 am »

From my experience the very first thing developers do after purchasing land is tear out all the trees and flatten the landscape (happening right now at 101 & memorial and 106th). That's already done downtown so they should feel comfortable.

What you are describing is the old Williams Center Forum with multiple screens. It was popular, had convenient adjacent parking and multiple floors of retail and restaurants surrounding an ice skating rink. It was cool and novel for the times. Different times I know and downtown was still filled with Williams employees but still.....

Dickinson theaters was alone for years out on Memorial. Years. Regal Plaza was only recently developed and more because Bixby and that area of Tulsa is growing so fast, NOT because of the theater. Someone has to offer a counter view of reality, go ahead and blast me, but it seems simplistic to think that multi screen movie theaters are the catalyst for development. They are part of the recipe but not the yeast.
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Gaspar
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« Reply #39 on: July 03, 2008, 07:30:57 am »

quote:
Originally posted by TheArtist

A friend went to OKC to the new Warren Theater in Moore. Raved about it and wished there were something like it here. Said it had an art deco theme. Old timey curtains that pulled back, balconies, a bar and lounge, etc.  That would be perfect for downtown Tulsa. Perhaps someone should contact them and mention our new ballpark and arena. Get downtown on their radar.



http://www.warrentheatres.com/moorebalcony.asp







Bingo!  Been there.  It's awesome.  Reminds me of some of the old revived theaters in St. Louis.

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Gaspar
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« Reply #40 on: July 03, 2008, 07:46:32 am »

quote:
Originally posted by waterboy

From my experience the very first thing developers do after purchasing land is tear out all the trees and flatten the landscape (happening right now at 101 & memorial and 106th). That's already done downtown so they should feel comfortable.

What you are describing is the old Williams Center Forum with multiple screens. It was popular, had convenient adjacent parking and multiple floors of retail and restaurants surrounding an ice skating rink. It was cool and novel for the times. Different times I know and downtown was still filled with Williams employees but still.....

Dickinson theaters was alone for years out on Memorial. Years. Regal Plaza was only recently developed and more because Bixby and that area of Tulsa is growing so fast, NOT because of the theater. Someone has to offer a counter view of reality, go ahead and blast me, but it seems simplistic to think that multi screen movie theaters are the catalyst for development. They are part of the recipe but not the yeast.



I hate it when they tear out the trees!  But unfortunately it's necessary now, not because of the developer, but because of government regulations that require larger detention/retention and grading to make the drainage plan work.

Developers would love to not have the extra expense of removing all of the trees but in most cases they have to. Even in cases where some trees can be saved the surrounding grading and weight of the construction equipment destroys the roots and the trees die or become diseased.

Every time we submit an earth change and put a building and parking lot in the slope and contour of the lot has to be changed to satisfy drainage requirements.  This is very important for safety and for the environment as a whole, but until the local government is willing to adopt some of the new practices, such as bioswails, and other more environmental options we are stuck with clearing the land.



We try to save as many trees as possible and our landscape architects work to create plans and documents that guide the earth work company as to how and where to park, or run equipment so as not to kill the remaining trees, but more often than not the trees have to go to fulfill the local requirements.


Your other point:
I remember the old Williams theater.  Great memories! When I was a kid growing up in way way South Tulsa, my family used to go see a movie there every weekend.  It was a treat to go down town!

When it closed, I didn't go down town for years except to pay a ticket or two.  I would be very interested to see the effect of closing that theater on the surrounding economy.  Would be a good case study.



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Gaspar
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« Reply #41 on: July 03, 2008, 07:50:30 am »

quote:
Originally posted by waterboy


Dickinson theaters was alone for years out on Memorial. Years. Regal Plaza was only recently developed and more because Bixby and that area of Tulsa is growing so fast, NOT because of the theater. Someone has to offer a counter view of reality, go ahead and blast me, but it seems simplistic to think that multi screen movie theaters are the catalyst for development. They are part of the recipe but not the yeast.



Dickenson was alone for exactly as long as it took to develop a huge retail complex.  

You should have seen the fight for development behind that one. Wow! There is now more fights for the surrounding land for office.  Stay tuned!



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sgrizzle
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« Reply #42 on: July 03, 2008, 08:22:40 am »

quote:
Originally posted by waterboy


Dickinson theaters was alone for years out on Memorial. Years. Regal Plaza was only recently developed and more because Bixby and that area of Tulsa is growing so fast, NOT because of the theater. Someone has to offer a counter view of reality, go ahead and blast me, but it seems simplistic to think that multi screen movie theaters are the catalyst for development. They are part of the recipe but not the yeast.



To be the catalyst for a development there has to be a development. I know you know chemistry and know by definition that a catalyst doesn't create a chemical reaction by itself. What gaspar and others are saying is that if you are putting a development in you need a theater to "spark it" to life.
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waterboy
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« Reply #43 on: July 03, 2008, 08:52:04 am »

Well said, both of you. I know the trees have to go and landscaping done, just noting regrettably one of the first steps.

The elements have to be in place for a catalyst to work. However, many successful developments do not include multi screen theaters. So, if the elements are in place without the catalyst and it is still successful, it follows that a catalyst is not always necessary. Utica Square, Brookside, Cherry Street, Tulsa Hills, Riverwalk (the theater came later).

The most important element is the surrounding demos isn't it? Utica Square worked because it sat in a dense, wealthy demo and it didn't hurt that a hospital and fast growing Brookside was nearby. Same with the other trendy midtown shopping areas. Meanwhile, Whittier square which had density, a theatre, and diversity...floundered.

I could make the same argument about grocery stores that is being made about theatres. When the density and favorable demographic of downtown faded along with the evacuation of oil companies, Williams Center forum and its theater evaporated as well.
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sgrizzle
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« Reply #44 on: July 03, 2008, 09:05:11 am »

I seem to remember a theater right in the middle of brookside...
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