The Tulsa Forum by TulsaNow

Talk About Tulsa => Development & New Businesses => Topic started by: LandArchPoke on October 27, 2022, 01:29:16 pm



Title: Uptown/18th & Boston Area
Post by: LandArchPoke on October 27, 2022, 01:29:16 pm
360 Engineering broke ground on their new HQ building I think today or just in the past few days. Will be 3 stories, little under 20,000 sq. ft. I don't have any renderings of it though.

On one of the lots Sharp owns almost right across from Double Shot. I've heard they are planning a parking structure in that area as well along with some additional multifamily. Their Riverside & SW Blvd project they won the RFP on is moving along too, will likely start sometime next year. Sharp has been quietly buying up stuff in this area.

Brut Hotel is moving, slowly. I think opening date is first few months of next year.  


Title: Re: Uptown/18th & Boston Area
Post by: buffalodan on October 28, 2022, 09:08:58 am
https://tulsaworld.com/business/local/local-engineering-firm-to-stretch-out-in-new-mixed-use-development/article_dbc9f454-5563-11ed-a422-f336cae46466.html

They had renderings. I'm really curious what this ends up looking like. Quite a bit of elevation change on that. I like the walls/stairs in the front and curious how that looks on the other sides.


Title: Re: Uptown/18th & Boston Area
Post by: shavethewhales on October 28, 2022, 09:21:14 am
Pretty interesting. They have 1,200 sf of retail space included, but I have to wonder what type of business they are thinking of for that space. It's a decent location, but a somewhat small space inside a building that by itself won't get a lot of traffic. A coffee shop won't make it considering double shot is next door. A print and ship place would be great there though, especially with an engineering firm overhead.


Title: Re: Uptown/18th & Boston Area
Post by: SXSW on November 01, 2022, 04:12:33 pm
This will be Tulsa's first structural Cross-Laminated Timber (CLT) building.  Pretty cool and hopefully leads to more of this building type.


Title: Re: Uptown/18th & Boston Area
Post by: Red Arrow on November 01, 2022, 08:45:57 pm
This will be Tulsa's first structural Cross-Laminated Timber (CLT) building.  Pretty cool and hopefully leads to more of this building type.

Super Plywood.  (Not what you get at the big box stores.)

https://www.apawood.org/cross-laminated-timber





Title: Re: Uptown/18th & Boston Area
Post by: SXSW on December 21, 2022, 09:57:31 am
New building replacing Burnco and an adjacent retail building where a small parking lot is currently located at 18th & Boston.  Is Burnco not renewing their lease?

(https://scontent-dfw5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/321259653_1336376747111937_518811883303008396_n.jpg?_nc_cat=101&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=fugrp7ULnUkAX9NiTkH&_nc_ht=scontent-dfw5-1.xx&oh=00_AfDYbCDvKYVrIsN3k5dflFJT14yMdBIAhReFhlz8typVaA&oe=63A87092)

(https://scontent-dfw5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/321277187_1148024886080509_2072363425274283295_n.jpg?_nc_cat=110&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=cwU5CfYFxYcAX9ZOsp_&tn=UJGKn_V9rmJzi72d&_nc_ht=scontent-dfw5-1.xx&oh=00_AfAlvCLyYN49m_rDUtdDV3AuYSHLmIIKxOlTLm9KVL-hvA&oe=63A80E45)


Title: Re: Uptown/18th & Boston Area
Post by: shavethewhales on December 21, 2022, 11:43:05 am
Nice. I know it's said around town a lot, but it's never been more true than here: this will really help fill things in and make it more of a true district.

Where'd these renderings come from? Maybe Burnco is still in negotiations? I know they had some issues when they opened up the second location with logistics and staff. Maybe they decided it was better to stick with the one location from now on... Or, more likely, the rent on this new space will be way higher than what they were originally paying and if they do a second location again they are going to look for somewhere cheaper.


Title: Re: Uptown/18th & Boston Area
Post by: SXSW on December 21, 2022, 02:45:39 pm
Lilly Architects.  I don't know if Burnco is moving back in or not.  I hope so as I live close but understand if they wanted a different, cheaper location.  I'd love to see them in a developing area like 15th & Delaware.


Title: Re: Uptown/18th & Boston Area
Post by: LandArchPoke on December 23, 2022, 01:55:06 pm
I like the renderings - must be getting a hefty insurance payout, hopefully they are able to stay true to the renderings and put in a lot of those extra details on the outside. Will make it look great, I love the rooftop area too - Tulsa needs more outdoor dining spaces. It helps make the street environment and entire area of a neighborhood feel so much different with patios/rooftops and being able to see people.


Title: Re: Uptown/18th & Boston Area
Post by: BKDotCom on December 29, 2022, 11:04:11 am
Is Burnco not renewing their lease?

They are not.  
The new rent is too damn high.

Or, more likely, the rent on this new space will be way higher than what they were originally paying and if they do a second location again they are going to look for somewhere cheaper.

^ this is the case


Title: Re: Uptown/18th & Boston Area
Post by: Red Arrow on December 29, 2022, 11:32:35 am
They are not.  
The new rent is too damn high.

^ this is the case

I wonder how that is affected by:

Building bigger and better than the insurance settlement
Taxes on bigger and better
Greed



Title: Re: Uptown/18th & Boston Area
Post by: shavethewhales on December 29, 2022, 11:44:20 am
^Surely it's a bit of all of the above.

It's obviously going to be a nicer, better building than the 1920's era relic in what I'm assuming was a sleepy little corner of town when Burnco started up. Taxes do go up when you add this much property value as well, though it's probably not as much of a factor as simply trying to squeeze as much money out of the property as possible.

I'm guessing whatever goes in will be somewhat upscale to make it worth it. Just a bit of gentrification for this corner, but as long as Mercury and the Shrine hold things down it'll be OK.

You have to wonder how often this process of driving up prices can go on before these places crumble, especially in the current environment. I don't think Tulsa needs many more upscale eateries at the moment. Prices have already doubled at about every restaurant. Maybe it won't be too many years before Burnco can afford the rent there again...


Title: Re: Uptown/18th & Boston Area
Post by: Red Arrow on December 29, 2022, 01:47:30 pm
You have to wonder how often this process of driving up prices can go on before these places crumble,
sending business out of the CBD again to the suburbs.

Not that I go out to eat anyway unless forced to by circumstances.  It's always been expensive for real (not McD's) food and it's almost always way to salty.  I'd rather cook at home.

Quote
Prices have already doubled at about every restaurant.

Makes me feel a little better about the price of airplane gas.



Title: Re: Uptown/18th & Boston Area
Post by: swake on December 29, 2022, 03:31:24 pm
^Surely it's a bit of all of the above.

It's obviously going to be a nicer, better building than the 1920's era relic in what I'm assuming was a sleepy little corner of town when Burnco started up. Taxes do go up when you add this much property value as well, though it's probably not as much of a factor as simply trying to squeeze as much money out of the property as possible.

I'm guessing whatever goes in will be somewhat upscale to make it worth it. Just a bit of gentrification for this corner, but as long as Mercury and the Shrine hold things down it'll be OK.

You have to wonder how often this process of driving up prices can go on before these places crumble, especially in the current environment. I don't think Tulsa needs many more upscale eateries at the moment. Prices have already doubled at about every restaurant. Maybe it won't be too many years before Burnco can afford the rent there again...

!8th and Boston has been a little bar district since the 1970s. The Burnco building was the Hoffbrau bar for many years.  The it was a Blues and BBQ place. I forget what else was in that building.


Title: Re: Uptown/18th & Boston Area
Post by: Urban Enthusiast on December 29, 2022, 05:09:33 pm
Does anyone know if this building (https://www.google.com/maps/@36.1359225,-95.9834246,3a,71.8y,224.21h,90.87t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sORuRHHD6SV3zKW0_hgY7kQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192) at 18th and Cincinnati is still slated to be remodeled and occupied?  I know there was talk about it on this forum awhile back.


Title: Re: Uptown/18th & Boston Area
Post by: SXSW on December 29, 2022, 08:34:19 pm
Does anyone know if this building (https://www.google.com/maps/@36.1359225,-95.9834246,3a,71.8y,224.21h,90.87t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sORuRHHD6SV3zKW0_hgY7kQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192) at 18th and Cincinnati is still slated to be remodeled and occupied?  I know there was talk about it on this forum awhile back.

Iíve heard it is still happening and will be a neighborhood bistro concept with outdoor seating by the McNellies Group.


Title: Re: Uptown/18th & Boston Area
Post by: SXSW on January 05, 2023, 08:36:48 am
Looking ahead now that we're in 2023 this year should see some positive growth for this district.  The rehab of the old Burnco building and adjacent parking lot into new retail/restaurant storefronts is underway.  The old American Solera will be opening this spring as an outpost of Welltown Brewery/Nuggies chicken that will have a rooftop patio.  360 Engineering's new 2-story CLT office building at 17th & Boulder will start construction in the next couple months.  And the Brut Hotel will also be opening a couple blocks away this spring and will have a rooftop restaurant/bar called Soma.  

The city really needs to invest in a streetscape for this area and finally improve the 18th & Boston intersection.  The condition of the streets are really bad.  Hopefully whatever they do they include trees/landscaping as that would go a long way toward improving the streetscape.  I'd like to see some new residential developments get proposed this year too.  Boulder Towers will be ripe for a conversion to apartments once H&P and CBRE move downtown.

Another rendering of the new storefronts along Boston
(https://scontent-dfw5-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/324414349_899030064609866_5291101868314977091_n.jpg?_nc_cat=108&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=MJD16irFZAkAX9jDgot&_nc_ht=scontent-dfw5-2.xx&oh=00_AfBWt6oiefqxVy7EDonO_W3YmGNNTbCPITtqTJC14TNS_Q&oe=63BBBECF)


Title: Re: Uptown/18th & Boston Area
Post by: DowntownDan on January 09, 2023, 10:23:45 am
The building next to TXMZ (I think it most recently had a law office sign) has been torn down. Hopefully there's a plan and not just another open lot.


Title: Re: Uptown/18th & Boston Area
Post by: shavethewhales on January 12, 2023, 11:37:13 am
Spoke with some movers and shakers from this area of town the other night and there's some real momentum to get the area cleaned up and more active again. I heard talk of a food truck park going in behind TXMX and a new bar sort of similar to Yard Bar with a focus on being dog-friendly going in south of Shrine. https://www.tailsandalestulsa.com/


Title: Re: Uptown/18th & Boston Area
Post by: LandArchPoke on January 27, 2023, 12:14:42 pm
Did Blue Rose close? (Edit: I guess it was most recently called Sandbar?) Whatever was in that building is being marketed.

I just don't drive past it that much anymore I tend to also turn up Boulder. That site is being marketed for sale/lease. I think it's just for lease but the broker is marketing it really confusingly on Costar.


Title: Re: Uptown/18th & Boston Area
Post by: SXSW on January 29, 2023, 04:09:15 pm
Did Blue Rose close? (Edit: I guess it was most recently called Sandbar?) Whatever was in that building is being marketed.

I just don't drive past it that much anymore I tend to also turn up Boulder. That site is being marketed for sale/lease. I think it's just for lease but the broker is marketing it really confusingly on Costar.

I think they close during the winter and open back up in the spring.  I'm sure they're looking forward to Zink Dam being finished later this summer


Title: Re: Uptown/18th & Boston Area
Post by: shavethewhales on January 29, 2023, 05:09:44 pm
Wait, is there a for lease sign on the building? If so that's disappointing that yard bar/sand bar aren't returning this year. The spot has it's issues... It's pretty seasonal and people don't really come out there in bad weather. Decent burgers though and yard bar on a nice day is one of my favorite hangouts in Tulsa.


Title: Re: Uptown/18th & Boston Area
Post by: Red Arrow on January 30, 2023, 12:03:24 pm
The spot has it's issues... It's pretty seasonal and people don't really come out there in bad weather.

I'm sure the city, county and state have done all they can regarding permits, fees, taxes.... to prevent a seasonal business from having any chance to succeed.

 :(



Title: Re: Uptown/18th & Boston Area
Post by: LandArchPoke on January 30, 2023, 02:07:58 pm
I'm sure the city, county and state have done all they can regarding permits, fees, taxes.... to prevent a seasonal business from having any chance to succeed.

 :(



I'm not sure why these operated only as seasonal. The weather in Tulsa is warm enough they could operate year round.

Wait, is there a for lease sign on the building? If so that's disappointing that yard bar/sand bar aren't returning this year. The spot has it's issues... It's pretty seasonal and people don't really come out there in bad weather. Decent burgers though and yard bar on a nice day is one of my favorite hangouts in Tulsa.

If the marketing for it is correct it looks like one or both will not be re-opening.

It says $25.00 NNN for lease on Costar but it doesn't say for which part. It also shows as for sale for $2.5 million which doesn't make sense and then it shows as a ground lease... It's amazing that brokers can't figure out how to properly market something when that is literally the very basics of thier job. So I have no idea whether River Parks is trying to sell the buildings or lease them or both


Title: Re: Uptown/18th & Boston Area
Post by: SXSW on April 13, 2023, 09:33:59 pm
Any updates on Sandbar and Yard Bar?  I know RPA can be difficult and wonder if they were part of the reason they closed.  Hoping a local group can take it over and have success. 


Title: Re: Uptown/18th & Boston Area
Post by: SXSW on May 03, 2023, 10:40:31 am
The Burnco rebuild including the new building on the parking lot to the north are in for building permit.  Not sure when they plan to actually start construction but progress nonetheless. 

There has been some kind of a shipping container storage building erected where the small building was next to TXMZ.  I've been told they want to add a food truck next to it.  Boston Ave Realty (owners of TXMZ and the buildings to the north) have been trying to acquire the apartments behind to expand their parking lot and eventually develop a corner restaurant building at 18th & Baltimore.


Title: Re: Uptown/18th & Boston Area
Post by: LandArchPoke on May 03, 2023, 12:22:03 pm
The Burnco rebuild including the new building on the parking lot to the north are in for building permit.  Not sure when they plan to actually start construction but progress nonetheless. 

There has been some kind of a shipping container storage building erected where the small building was next to TXMZ.  I've been told they want to add a food truck next to it.  Boston Ave Realty (owners of TXMZ and the buildings to the north) have been trying to acquire the apartments behind to expand their parking lot and eventually develop a corner restaurant building at 18th & Baltimore.

I think there is a coffee shop going into the shipping containers or some sort of food/beverage and there will be food trucks in addition to that too. McNellies group looks to be moving on with work over at 18th & Cincinnati - I forget what type of concept they are putting in there though. So some things are moving along in that neighborhood which is nice to see. Cherry Street doesn't have a lot left for redevelopment so this seems like a nature spill over area with a ton of potential. 15th west of Peoria could really use a road diet and some streetscaping to make the two areas feel more connected.