What About Rail?

[pfox]

Hello TulsaNow-ers...

I mentioned awhile back that there would be opportunities to begin a community dialogue about Transit and how it fits in Tulsa's future.  Well, that time is upon us.  INCOG, along with the Federal Transit Administration, TulsaNow, PlaniTulsa, and TYPros is “co-sponsoring” an open house on April 24th at Union Depot (Jazz Hall of Fame) for this purpose.  We have invited luminaries and representatives from communities around the country to come to Tulsa to talk about their experiences with planning and implementing comprehensive transit systems, including rail: what they did right, what they would do differently, how it has affected their communities in terms of growth and investment, and how public, grassroots advocacy influenced policy decisions along the way.  

The point of this symposium is not to reveal any grand plan for Tulsa, but to begin a healthy, public dialogue on the subject.

We have launched a blog to keep you updated on the details.  As our invited speakers firm up their travel plans we will be announcing specifically who will participate in this panel discussion.  As of now we have several representatives from Denver, Austin, the Federal Transit Administration.  We anticipate adding to this list, and will keep you updated.

Stay updated at:

http://www.whataboutrail.blogspot.com/

Be sure to let your friends and family know about the event, and to bring their thinking caps with them.

P.S.  Our panelists will be taking questions at the event which will be moderated by Rich Fisher of Studio Tulsa.  We are trying to figure out a way that people can send in questions in advance of the event via the website.  So if something comes to mind, write it down so you don’t forget.

Hope you are as excited as we are about having this community-wide discussion.

Patrick Fox
Multi-Modal Transportation Planner
INCOG

[tulsasignnazi]

What about just filling up the buses first?  [!]

[pfox]

quote:Originally posted by tulsasignnazi

What about just filling up the buses first?  [!]

A worthy question, Paul.  Worthy of discussion.  How do you propose that happen?

In fact...you should bring it up at the event.

[tulsasignnazi]

If government owned the auto industry like it owns transit, the car of choice would be the Yugo, available in ONE color, puke green.  The engine starts only on Sundays, after church.

DE-Regulate Transit.  Divest Tulsa Transit.  Auction Curb Rights.

Curb Rights: A Foundation for Free Enterprise in Urban Transit.

Contemporary American Rail: Transportainment built on the backs of old ladies on fixed incomes to address the basic transportation needs of NO one.

Everything  You Ever Wanted to Know About EVERYTHING wrong with L.A. Rail, But Were Afraid to Ask.

[PonderInc]

This will be a terrific opportunity to come learn about the many different transit technologies available today.  It's obvious that not all transit is created equal. In considering the potential for mass transit in Tulsa, I hope that people will take the time to come and listen with an open mind BEFORE forming their opinions.  

By the way, comparing Tulsa to L.A. is funny, uncommon, and not that useful.

[JoeMommaBlake]

Across the board comparisons of Tulsa to L.A. might be silly, but I've lived in both places and one thing that the two cities have in common is an overwhelming fascination with cars and with driving. The cities are both designed in such a way that cars are necessary and that rail is difficult.

Of all of the large cities in which I've lived or visited, I can't think of one that beats Tulsa and L.A. in car reliance.

I'm not an expert, but it seems to me that one of our biggest issues in implementing viable public transit is a psychological one. How to we get car-reliant people to hang up the keys, especially if the implementation of public transit also means more walking (which it does)?

I'm fascinated by this topic and will be at the meeting. I'd love to see public rail and will support its pursuit.

[USRufnex]

... won't be able to make it but...

whatever happened to the Megabus idea?

[tulsasignnazi]

There are THREE obvious glaring challenges with commuter rail for Tulsa:

1) Oklahoma is a DONOR state.  That means YOU pay more in federal taxes to the national transportation program than you get back in infrastructure funding.

2) Congress has been cutting into the federal subsidies for transit for years.  Sure, we ALWAYS have enough money for widening I-44.  But, for a small fraction of the price, we could have cut bus headways in HALF.

3) NO member of Congress from Oklahoma has EVER earmarked for urban commuter transit, ANYWHERE in the State.

Although I won't be attending, I really care about transit.  The more people on buses, the less cars on the road.  More space for bikes.  

The problem is comtemporary commuter rail cannibalized ridership from buses, which are not even to capacity now.

Another random thought for Mr. Fox:  If divesting Tulsa Transit, auctioning curb rights, and de-regulating transit is no easy proposition, what makes Tulsa commuter rail ANY easier?

By City Charter, the Office of the Mayor can sign an executive order liquidating Tulsa Transit assets.  Would ANY Tulsa voter really care?  I doubt it would even make page 16.  The bus riding demographic, almost 100,000 Tulsans, 28% of the population without access to personal motor vehicles, don't vote.

City Council can revise Tulsa Ordinances to de-regulate local transit and create the neccessary regulatory environment for Tulsa Trolley spawns to survive.  As long as Tulsa Transit has NO profit motive to put more people on more buses, because of their government subsidy, transit is a FAILURE.

When businesses face money-losing, ineffective operations, they are 86'd.  Something the Mayor and Bill Martinson understands well.  

If Tulsa Transit can't even provide basic transportation for its own employees, bus drivers, and General Manager Bill Boatwright, why should the City subsidize Tulsa Transit when the voters are SCREAMING for street repairs?

Certainly, if Tulsa Transit is divested, there will be a vacuum.  Amalgamated will be FURIOUS.  But, guess what?  If the regulatory environment is favorable, some genius like Blake will step in with Son of T-Town Trolley.

Compare to getting commuter rail in Tulsa, Making Tulsa bike-friendlier is KID's play.  Just get off yer FAT arse, and PEDAL.  Works great for Santa.

[sauerkraut]

I'd like to see Tulsa get a system of jogging and bike trails like Denver and Omaha has. In some cases people will be able to bike to work on the trails

[Ed W]

quote:Originally posted by sauerkraut

I'd like to see Tulsa get a system of jogging and bike trails like Denver and Omaha has. In some cases people will be able to bike to work on the trails

Between the existing trail system and the on-street route system, the Tulsa area is fairly easy to navigate.  But eventually you have to leave the bike facility and ride on city streets. They're the best-kept secret of Tulsa cycling - the streets are relatively easy to ride on, particularly the 4 lane arterials.  Just ride in the right-hand lane, leaving roughly 2/3 of the lane to your left and 1/3 to your right.  Overtaking traffic will cross into the other lane to pass.  

Here's a link to the INCOG trail page with a further link to their map:

http://www.incog.org/transportation/trails.htm

[citizen72]

Pat don't go away. That is not what they taught us in architecture at the University of Arkansas. (grin) Mort Karp will turn over in his resting place.

[tulsasignnazi]

quote:Originally posted by sauerkraut

I'd like to see Tulsa get a system of jogging and bike trails like Denver and Omaha has. In some cases people will be able to bike to work on the trails

Under BOTH Tulsa Ordinance and Oklahoma State Statute, EVERY street is a bike path.  Every lane is a bike lane.

Tulsa has the world's ONLY biker bar.  Denver, Omaha, not even Portland can boast that.

Why whine, complain, and wait to be coddled by what Denver and Omaha has?  YOU have the power NOW to make Tulsa bike-friendlier.

Ask NOT for what Tulsa isn't and will NEVER be.  Ask how YOU can be the change YOU want Tulsa to be.

[PonderInc]

This event will be an opportunity to address how all the pieces of the of the transit puzzle fit together.  Rail is one component of the discussion, but it doesn't end there.  Consideration for busses, bikes, pedestrians and, yes, even cars, must factor into any real mobility strategy.  

The goal is to create a viable, comprehensive, user-friendly transit system that will benefit Tulsa both economically and environmentally, while increasing quality of life for all Tulsans.  

TulsaNow has talked about sponsoring a forum such as this for several years.  I hope everyone who has ever ridden public transit in other cities and said "Wouldn't it be great if we had this in Tulsa?" will show up and learn more!

[citizen72]

quote:Originally posted by PonderInc

This event will be an opportunity to address how all the pieces of the of the transit puzzle fit together.  Rail is one component of the discussion, but it doesn't end there.  Consideration for busses, bikes, pedestrians and, yes, even cars, must factor into any real mobility strategy.  

The goal is to create a viable, comprehensive, user-friendly transit system that will benefit Tulsa both economically and environmentally, while increasing quality of life for all Tulsans.  

TulsaNow has talked about sponsoring a forum such as this for several years.  I hope everyone who has ever ridden public transit in other cities and said "Wouldn't it be great if we had this in Tulsa?" will show up and learn more!

Is monorail to be a part of the discussion? Vegas did an exhausting study on rapid transit systems prior to the installation of their monorail system. They concluded that in a fully developed and organized urban setting monorail was the easiest to install and operate. Would like to see it applied for Tulsa in the discussions.

[Chicken Little]

quote:Originally posted by PonderInc

This event will be an opportunity to address how all the pieces of the of the transit puzzle fit together.  Rail is one component of the discussion, but it doesn't end there.  Consideration for busses, bikes, pedestrians and, yes, even cars, must factor into any real mobility strategy.  

The goal is to create a viable, comprehensive, user-friendly transit system that will benefit Tulsa both economically and environmentally, while increasing quality of life for all Tulsans.  

TulsaNow has talked about sponsoring a forum such as this for several years.  I hope everyone who has ever ridden public transit in other cities and said "Wouldn't it be great if we had this in Tulsa?" will show up and learn more!

And density, I hope.  Bates still thinks rail is a boondoggle, but his argument against it is narrow, i.e., that Tulsa does not currently have the density to support rail.

I find this ironic.  For one, he claims to be a champion of walkability, livable neighborhoods, and managing finite resources.  It's painfully obvious, at least to me, that Tulsa is out-of-balance.  We create low-density development that offers little of none of this, and it's unsustainable to boot.  And then we are nervy enough to ask why we can't sustain it.  

To that I say, "Duh!"  In order to acheive the principled and lofty goals that Bates supports,  we need to look at building at more efficient and sustainable densities.  This then ipso facto demonstrates that we have, or should be working towards, densities that support trains.

And second, Bates does not seem to understand that density and fixed rail routes are mutually supportive objectives.  With one comes the other.  Conversely, it's hard to deliver one without committing to the other.