Oh, what we can learn from Detroit.

[guido911]

I guess I am throwing more fuel on the racist fire and to further offend our newest race baiter, but here is something from a few months ago.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ySuR7Eluvms#![/youtube]

[Gaspar]

I want people to be free, and that means free to choose their leaders.  If the state is allowed to take over, then the state is basically saying "we have the power to overrule a local election.  You can see where that argument logically leads.

[Conan71]

Ultimately the lesson though won't be that people expected too much out of government and finally managed to milk the municipal government to death.

The lesson will be there simply were not enough wealthy people to give their fair share to support those who demanded too much out of government without putting any productivity back in.  It's like the councilwoman or whomever the speaker said: "Our people supported him! We want our quid pro quo!"

There's a certain mentality that is all about what can be taken from "the man".  Is it ever a consideration from these people what might be within their own power to help save their own city or make it more livable?

[Red Arrow]

The people of Detroit will not be allowed to die of starvation while freezing in the dark.  That is probably what it would take to get the majority of the voters to change things.  It's a shame.

[guido911]

Ultimately the lesson though won't be that people expected too much out of government and finally managed to milk the municipal government to death.

And how damned unfortunate is all of that. Here is a symptom of the problem.

Nearly half, 47%, of Detroit property owners did not pay their property taxes for 2011, reports the Detroit News. On 77 blocks only one property owner paid his or her taxes. This is a good piece of enterprise journalism: the News examined 200,000 pages of property tax documents.

Read more: http://nation.foxnews.com/detroit/2013/02/24/47-detroit-property-owners-don-t-pay-their-taxes#ixzz2ML3QupSf

47%? Where have I heard that number before?

[guido911]

I'm sorry Gas, but the fact is their idea of democracy should not f over the rest of us. I am not talking about Detroit saving itself, from itself necessarily. But when they f up to the point where MY rights and money are at stake--like the council woman wanting Obama to give up the bacon--then tough smile on their election results.

[Ed W]

In effect, Guido, are you saying that you respect the will of the voters unless they do something you don't like?  It sure seems that way. 

[guido911]

In effect, Guido, are you saying that you respect the will of the voters unless they do something you don't like?  It sure seems that way.  

Wow, there are leaps and there are LEAPS. But, I'll remember this post next time we have a debate on how us crazy Oklahomans want to restrict abortion rights or vote to ban Sharia law or make English the official language or any of the number of things that leads some in this forum to call us backwards or dumbassed.

As for Detroit, I would gladly punt on the idea of a city manager if it meant that NO money from the outside were used to bail it out. That way, Gas gets his point realized and the city implodes into bankruptcy. But the human cost (or the risk) of teaching that lesson is too much. If there is an alternative, I'm listening.

[Ed W]

Wow, there are leaps and there are LEAPS. But, I'll remember this post next time we have a debate......

 If there is an alternative, I'm listening.

It's hardly a leap, Guido.  The lawfully elected governments of Detroit and Benton Harbor were replaced with an overseer appointed by the governor.  Regardless of what we think of the actions of those governments, there's something fundamentally unAmerican about using the authority of the state to ride rough shod over the obvious voting preference of local people. 

These cities are not alone when it comes to seeing a collapse of their financial underpinnings.  We saw towns along the Monongehela River go through similar problems with the demise of the steel industry in the Pittsburgh area.  The mills closed.  People were out of work and other businesses folded like ripples spreading on a pond.  People who have little money don't pay their property taxes when the alternative is to go hungry.  Local government suffers from the dual loss of sales taxes and property taxes.  It's a nasty downward spiral, exacerbated by the quick retreat of the monied class behind the locked gates of their walled communities. 

I think we need an urban homesteading movement that provides financial incentives for residents and businesses, coupled with an aggressive campaign to bulldoze blighted buildings.  Yes, the latter would transform large areas into moonscapes, but they're unproductive land already, and we don't want to have infrastructure that can be converted to gang turf - like Camden, New Jersey - where the tax implosion and reduction in police forces has lead to some areas simply being off limits to patrolling.  It's like something out of Mad Max.

It's an idea.  Feel free to pick it apart.
 

[guido911]

It's hardly a leap, Guido.  The lawfully elected governments of Detroit and Benton Harbor were replaced with an overseer appointed by the governor.  Regardless of what we think of the actions of those governments, there's something fundamentally unAmerican about using the authority of the state to ride rough shod over the obvious voting preference of local people. 


 

This happens all the time when state/local voters want one thing, and the higher levels of govt. trump all over it.  With that said, what do you propose be done with Detroit? Business as usual was the result of the last election--except a local official wants Obama to bail them out. That's OUR money, and with that comes the VERY American right of our having a say. And speaking of unAmerican, what can be more unAmerican than watching a city implode and its people suffer from the sidelines?

What I am bothered by is the potential slippery slope of this sort of thing in the future in lesser significant financial crises.

[Townsend]

us crazy Oklahomans want to restrict abortion rights or vote to ban Sharia law or make English the official language or any of the number of things that leads some in this forum to call us backwards or dumbassed.

That's an inarguable account.

[patric]

Looks like there's a fork in this, so...
(I couldn't resist)

If you think the iconic Renaissance Center doesn't light up Detroit's skyline as much as it used to, you're right.
General Motors Co. has been encouraging employees to douse their office lights at night to prevent bird deaths at its world headquarters. For its efforts, the Detroit automaker has been honored by the Michigan Audubon Society.
Detroit is in the middle of an important migratory bird flight path — at times, the winged wanderers are so dense they can be seen on radar — and birds often crash into lit buildings at night or circle them, mesmerized, until they fall to their deaths.
While the numbers are questioned by some, estimates of bird deaths from running into skyscrapers range from millions to half a billion annually.

From The Detroit News: http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20130302/BIZ/303020332#ixzz2MgMZdepG

[Gaspar]

Emergency Manager Kevyn Orr says the city of Detroit's cash-flow crisis makes it "insolvent" and unable to borrow more money to mask over debts being made worse by skipping millions in payments for retiree pensions and health care.

After 45 days on the job, Orr's initial assessment of Detroit's perilous finances is laid bare in a 41-page report to be delivered today to state Treasurer Andy Dillon.

The report hints that city employees who were not hit by last year's wage reductions could face pay cuts in the near future and that Wall Street bondholders will be asked to take a haircut to relieve a city that shelled out $133 million in debt payments last year on a $1.23 billion budget.

Orr also says he will evaluate "options to reduce or eliminate certain health care costs for both active and retired employees" in light of a $5.7 billion unfunded health care benefit for 18,500 retired city workers and 10,000 active employees.

"No one should underestimate the severity of the financial crisis," he said Sunday in a statement.



From The Detroit News: http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20130512/METRO01/305130320#ixzz2TCVnYVa9

[guido911]

Figured I thrown this in here since it is a Detroit issue.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2U95MuClF1Q[/youtube]


This is just crazy.

[heironymouspasparagus]

Figured I thrown this in here since it is a Detroit issue.


This is just crazy.

Yes it is!   They should just all move to the suburbs!!



In its majestic equality, the law forbids rich and poor alike to sleep under bridges, beg in the streets and steal loaves of bread.
-- Anatole France