Th Politics of Groceries: Gateway closed today 7/29/2014

[swake]

They don’t need up-scale at Pine and Peoria.

FWIW, we have two Whole Foods, I believe a third Sprouts is being built, we have Natural Grocers, and Fresh Market.  Perry’s isn’t much of a grocery store, other than meat and meat-related items they are severely limited and their produce usually looks like WM rejects.  But...Perry’s does have the best meat counter in town.

The upscale demand is being well-met.  In the meantime, there’s a food desert in north Tulsa.

I think he probably meant Petty's Fine Foods, not Perry's Meat Market.

[AquaMan]

I disagree.  The ones that do the robbing, stealing, and vandalizing, aren't the kind of people that are going to hop in a car, drive a few more miles, and do the same thing.  Instead, they'll just pick another business or house that is closer to their "central point".

As for the WM at 61st and Peoria, it's only a small percentile of "bad apples" that do business there.  They still have plenty of middle class citizens that I would imagine do their shopping there.  And while murder and drugs are rampant in that area, for whatever reason, theft and robbery have never been major issues.  I can't explain "why" that is the case.

If a store could make money there, there would be a store there.  Simple as that.  That somebody would pull out, and have to repay the city a bunch of money for pulling out, shows just how much they think a "loser" that location really is.

I guess we have different perspectives. I get real tired of those economic platitudes that the market rules and the North side isn't profitable. With that logic there would be no WalMart at Admiral and Memorial, no banks out north and no Walgreens anywhere. But maybe you live in one of those two locales? That might account for your cynicism. I spent a lot of the last two years working in those areas and talking with the locals. They like WM and WalMart, they didn't like Gateway and both areas are far from middle class.

As far as theft and robbery, though I take issue with that from my first hand accounts, I could quote Jesse James when asked why he robbed banks, "because that's where the money is". Maybe thats why most of the high profile theft and robberies are now taking place out east and southeast.

[DTowner]

I guess we have different perspectives. I get real tired of those economic platitudes that the market rules and the North side isn't profitable. With that logic there would be no WalMart at Admiral and Memorial, no banks out north and no Walgreens anywhere. But maybe you live in one of those two locales? That might account for your cynicism. I spent a lot of the last two years working in those areas and talking with the locals. They like WM and WalMart, they didn't like Gateway and both areas are far from middle class.

As far as theft and robbery, though I take issue with that from my first hand accounts, I could quote Jesse James when asked why he robbed banks, "because that's where the money is". Maybe thats why most of the high profile theft and robberies are now taking place out east and southeast.

Alberton's built a nice store in north Tulsa and it didn't work.  Whe it was selling off its Tulsa stores, no one wanted it.  Homeland had a nice store at Edison and Gilcrease Road.  When Homeland went bankrupt, no one wanted this location.  The city induced a store to go into the former Albertson's with a low interest loan and it still did not make it.

I don't know about platitudes, but the common theme is north Tulsa grocery stores keep shutting down and none of the chains seem interested in moving into this underserved market.

[Conan71]

Alberton's built a nice store in north Tulsa and it didn't work.  Whe it was selling off its Tulsa stores, no one wanted it.  Homeland had a nice store at Edison and Gilcrease Road.  When Homeland went bankrupt, no one wanted this location.  The city induced a store to go into the former Albertson's with a low interest loan and it still did not make it.

I don't know about platitudes, but the common theme is north Tulsa grocery stores keep shutting down and none of the chains seem interested in moving into this underserved market.

Somehow Warehouse Market has managed to serve other lower income areas of the city no one else wants to serve.  Why Pine & Peoria is all that difficult may be a simple matter of the space being over-built (ergo the rent is too high) for the volume you can turn to make a profit with the other issues which seem to be endemic to the immediate surroundings.

[rebound]

I think he probably meant Petty's Fine Foods, not Perry's Meat Market.

I thought he was just trolling and not worthy of a response...

[davideinstein]

You don't see QuikTrip's in the area for a reason. That's a business reality, even if it rubs us the wrong way.

[Gaspar]

They don’t need up-scale at Pine and Peoria.

FWIW, we have two Whole Foods, I believe a third Sprouts is being built, we have Natural Grocers, and Fresh Market.  Perry’s isn’t much of a grocery store, other than meat and meat-related items they are severely limited and their produce usually looks like WM rejects.  But...Perry’s does have the best meat counter in town.

The upscale demand is being well-met.  In the meantime, there’s a food desert in north Tulsa.

Those are better stores too because they all carry award winning 3 Guys Smokin' sauces and rubs. ;-)

Someone mentioned that that area was not a hotbed for crime.  According to the 2014 tulsa police heat map for burglary, it's a hotbed.  Larceny, assault and rape are also popular activities in that area.

[AquaMan]

Those are better stores too because they all carry award winning 3 Guys Smokin' sauces and rubs. ;-)

Someone mentioned that that area was not a hotbed for crime.  According to the 2014 tulsa police heat map for burglary, it's a hotbed.  Larceny, assault and rape are also popular activities in that area.

Only, no one mentioned that. Just pointed out that currently East and Southeast seem to be hot as well.

[AquaMan]

You don't see QuikTrip's in the area for a reason. That's a business reality, even if it rubs us the wrong way.

Only, there are few, or no QT's in OKC either. Nor Dallas, nor Minneapolis. And there are no Love's in Broken Arrow! Those are business realities. Unless you know one of the owners or have inside info as to why there is no QT at Pine and Peoria or anywhere north of Admiral, those are just observations.

[rdj]

As a resident of Tulsa north (Reservoir Hill) we refused to visit Gateway Market.  My wife and I tried to shop their when it first opened.  We gave it several months but between the grocery bill being 10-15% higher, the lack of selection and the overall filth of the store and parking lot we stopped.  I tried to continue buying the emergency produce or other item there, but in the last year it became unbearable.  The Family Dollar at Pine & MLK and the Braum's at Gilcrease Road & 412 now fill the last minute gap with the grocery stores in midtown providing the primary grocery.

The store was WAY too big.  For anyone to be successful it has to be split up.  Perez tried to cordon off about 1/3 of the store but it still was too big and made the place look worse.  The city deserves better.

[Hoss]

Only, there are few, or no QT's in OKC either. Nor Dallas, nor Minneapolis. And there are no Love's in Broken Arrow! Those are business realities. Unless you know one of the owners or have inside info as to why there is no QT at Pine and Peoria or anywhere north of Admiral, those are just observations.

Hmm..Pine & Mingo would be considered north of Admiral.  Don't get your Tulsa geographical info from Sauer, please...  

[rdj]

Only, there are few, or no QT's in OKC either. Nor Dallas, nor Minneapolis. And there are no Love's in Broken Arrow! Those are business realities. Unless you know one of the owners or have inside info as to why there is no QT at Pine and Peoria or anywhere north of Admiral, those are just observations.

Chet Cadiuex personally told me in 2007 they would not open in areas they believed to be unprofitable or have potential for shrink and/or employee/customer safety issues.  They have an existing store at Lewis & 46th St N, he did not see them opening any other stores in North Tulsa.

[rdj]

Hmm..Pine & Mingo would be considered north of Admiral.  Don't get your Tulsa geographical info from Sauer, please...  

There is also a store on the NW corner of Admiral and Delaware and a newer 3rd Gen store on N Gilcrease Rd at 412/51.  They, along with most people, consider the "danger zone" of North Tulsa to be Memorial to LL Tisdale and Admiral to Owasso.  Pine & Mingo serves the employees at the airport and surrounding industry.

[DolfanBob]

This QT has been out North for years.

QuikTrip
4545 N Lewis Ave
46th St N
Tulsa - North, OK 74110

Also. I believe the whole 7 Eleven in OKC and QT in Tulsa. Stems from a Gentleman's agreement between owners to not infringe on one another dominance in the areas. I may be wrong in what I have heard.

[Conan71]

Only, there are few, or no QT's in OKC either. Nor Dallas, nor Minneapolis. And there are no Love's in Broken Arrow! Those are business realities. Unless you know one of the owners or have inside info as to why there is no QT at Pine and Peoria or anywhere north of Admiral, those are just observations.

There’s only about 114 in the DFW metro.  There’s also six QT's north of Admiral, including one at *GASP* 46th Noff & Lewis.

edit: Just for fun here’s where all QT is these days:

Georgia: Atlanta (130 stores)
Texas: Dallas/Fort Worth (114 stores)
Arizona: Phoenix (88 stores)
Arizona: Tucson (17 stores)
Kansas: Wichita (38 stores)
Kansas/Missouri: Kansas City (82 stores)
Missouri/Illinois: St. Louis (75 stores)
Oklahoma: Tulsa (70 stores)
Iowa: Des Moines (24 stores)
Nebraska: Omaha (12 stores)
South Carolina: Greenville/Spartanburg (24 stores)
North and South Carolina: Charlotte (26 stores)