Police misconduct 2

[dbacksfan 2.0]

[guido911]

Me too.

[heironymouspasparagus]

I think your fluid levels need addressed--immediately.

Really?  You used to be so much better at this...is the press of business so heavy that you can't take the time to write a reasoned response??  Are you having law clerks fill in for you...??  It's almost like early onset Old-timers...  Come on, guy, I know you can do better!!  Step it up!!!

And pictures and video clips?  When originally done, it was innovative and clever - sometimes.  The "463rd time", it is derivative, trite, and doesn't even rise to the level of "tragically hip"...

[rebound]

On attacking my depth of argument, sounds like someone is upset they were hoisted on their own petard. First, you set the ground rules, live with them. Second, you made ZERO distinction between private vs. public activists, and holding "any" activist to a higher standard merely because they are elected to some post is nothing than a baseless double standard.

You gave the ol' "applause sign" to a person I consider to be what's wrong with sincere activism. IMO, fear mongering and hostility to authority without any sense of balance makes someone a propagandist in that area--not an activist. Propaganda is offensive and does not further debate. Now, have I behaved that way? Sure, sometimes. And when I do I expect to called on it. And people do. 

Awesome!  Now, see, this is what I'm talking about. Words, not pictures, and some verbiage to make a point.  (In my defense though, I've noticed others are getting tired of all the pictures...)

So to debate the point and not the poster, I offer up a couple of counters.    First, fair enough on me not calling out a distinction between elected officials and private activists.  There is a distinct difference, and to me this is a self-evident position.  An elected official has a duty (IMHO) to consider all sides of an argument and act accordingly.  No doubt all officials have bias in some way or another, and so will tend to a certain political position.  (They did run on a platform, after all.) But they cannot afford themselves blinded allegiance to an extreme position on either end of the political spectrum.  A private citizen however, can.  We need, and should appreciate, those special interests for what they are (good and bad) and act accordingly.

With regard to "any sense of balance", I actually somewhat agree with you there.  And I much more respect a person who can explain a position, rather than simply brow-beating it upon us ad-nauseam.  But to this specific topic, I question what "balance" is appropriate?  Do any of us, including Vashta, think that the vast majority of police are anything but good, well-meaning individuals?  Again, I think that is a given position among the majority.  But that does not excuse abuse by authority, and we should demand accountability from those same police when members of their own go rouge and cause harm.

[Ed W]

It only took 3 days of body-cam use to catch the elbow cop, but it should also be noted that it was a fellow officer that filed the complaint, and the city fired him.... but the union went to court and got still-lieutenant Mike Denton his exact same position back, and $283,420.04 in back pay.

Now he wants back-overtime.

The guy Denton bloodied up was offered $1,500 not to sue while still in jail, which he took, but had to give right back to pay court fees.

I'd be happy if Denton were assigned to a tiny desk in a back room and never allowed on the street again. He'd have an in-box and an out-box, but the in-box would always be empty.

[guido911]

Really?  You used to be so much better at this...is the press of business so heavy that you can't take the time to write a reasoned response??  Are you having law clerks fill in for you...??  It's almost like early onset Old-timers...  Come on, guy, I know you can do better!!  Step it up!!!

And pictures and video clips?  When originally done, it was innovative and clever - sometimes.  The "463rd time", it is derivative, trite, and doesn't even rise to the level of "tragically hip"...

Relax. Having fun with ya...

[cannon_fodder]

I think I've said it before in this thread... but no one addressed it:

Why is calling out governmental abuses of power a liberal issue?

Shouldn't the liberals be happy that an overreaching government is violating constitutional rights to keep us safe?  "I will give up all the freedom needed to make sure I'm safe, warm, and cozy!"

Shouldn't it be the conservatives who demand small government and protest when the government abuses its power over citizens?

Police brutality, police excessive use of force, 1st, 4th, 5th, and 14th Constitutional Amendment violations by police...  THIS IS HOW THE *GOVERNMENT* ABUSES POWER. The police are the primary actors of the government. The government employs millions of people to exercise control over citizens... those are called law enforcement. They are agents of the government. Having a government agent stop you without cause, or search your home without a warrant, or damage your person or property without just compensation --- these are primary reasons for our revolutionary war.  Protecting ourselves from government agents is the entire reason we formed our own country.

When government overstep their boundaries and perform a search that is not constitutional - conservatives applaud their efforts to catch the bad guys. When they shoot an unarmed man dead, conservatives say "he should have obeyed." When they arrest reporters, photographers, or otherwise blatantly ignore the US Constitution... the liberals are the ones that speak out.

That is backwards. Why are the conservatives consistently on the side of the government?

Law Enforcement is an important and utterly necessary part of government. The vast majority of interactions with law enforcement is professional and most officers excel at their jobs (and yes, this includes my friends and relatives in law enforcement, with whom I have this same discussion). But when they step over the line, it is a governmental abuse of power against a citizen. Both the government and individual actor needs to be held accountable.

Why is that controversial?  Why does that mean anyone would celebrate the vandalism of a monument to deceased officers? Why does that mean people do not appreciate the millions of dedicated LEOs that enforce our laws every day?

Supporting law enforcement and demanding government accountability are not mutual exclusive.

[heironymouspasparagus]

Shouldn't it be the conservatives who demand small government and protest when the government abuses its power over citizens?

That is backwards. Why are the conservatives consistently on the side of the government?

Supporting law enforcement and demanding government accountability are not mutual exclusive.

Because they are lying.  The real agenda is accumulation of power.

And on the other side, wouldn't one expect a liberal to advocate keeping the government out of peoples business as defined by the Constitution?  Specifically as relates to the 2nd Constitutional Amendment?  Because the real agenda is accumulation of power.

Both sides have some major problems.

[patric]

"It is telling that at this moment, local media and the Denver Police Department are more offended over red paint being splashed on a piece of stone than the very real red blood that continues to stain our streets because of unchecked police violence."

What is telling is people who have always been staunch supporters of police or who have had family members serve, finally coming around to the realization that what we have today isnt what we had back then.

It will take longer to fix than it did to break, but you have to start somewhere.
One suggestion has been that officers go back to being a part of the community they work in.  That might mean not driving back and forth to your home in Muskogee or Bartlesville.

[Hoss]

What is telling is people who have always been staunch supporters of police or who have had family members serve, finally coming around to the realization that what we have today isnt what we had back then.

It will take longer to fix than it did to break, but you have to start somewhere.
One suggestion has been that officers go back to being a part of the community they work in.  That might mean not driving back and forth to your home in Muskogee or Bartlesville.

Point well made.  I see a Tulsa police cruiser parked down the street from my brother every day I'm over there.  My brother lives in Broken Arrow.  And not BA close to Tulsa city limits either, he lives in the middle of BA.

I thought TPD changed policy on this some years ago...

[TeeDub]

I thought TPD changed policy on this some years ago...

They did...   But you looked the other way for a second and they reversed it.
http://www.krmg.com/news/news/local/tulsa-police-officers-once-again-allowed-drive-pat/ngmWT/

[DolfanBob]

What is telling is people who have always been staunch supporters of police or who have had family members serve, finally coming around to the realization that what we have today isnt what we had back then.

Ding, Ding, Ding! Give that man a Daniel Webster C-Gar.

[guido911]

Ding, Ding, Ding! Give that man a Daniel Webster C-Gar.

I don't understand. Is the point that police today are more brutal or generally worse than they were 30-50 years ago? 

[Hoss]

I don't understand. Is the point that police today are more brutal or generally worse than they were 30-50 years ago? 

Maybe not.  It might all be the same from then to now, it's just with the advent of instant video, instances of brutality are more easily..shall we say...proven, than they were 50 years ago.  But I'm guessing that will garner a witty image or something...

[dbacksfan 2.0]

Maybe not.  It might all be the same from then to now, it's just with the advent of instant video, instances of brutality are more easily..shall we say...proven, than they were 50 years ago.  But I'm guessing that will garner a witty image or something...

I think you are closer to reality with that statement. It's like so many other things that have been happening with the 24 hour new cycle, and now instant video, it's reported on more frequently, but the frequency of the events are about the same.