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tulsa_fan
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« Reply #180 on: August 07, 2014, 11:54:25 am » |
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I really wonder what was going on in their heads as well. I do understand there is a long history of behavioral problems with her. But I don't see how that turns into him shooting the boy. I personally don't believe he thought it was something he would get away with, no consequences. . . Race is a non issue here, it amazes me how many people are trying to add that.
It's really a tragedy!
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Conan71
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« Reply #181 on: August 07, 2014, 12:47:23 pm » |
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Latest release from the Tulsa World is that Mr. Kepler had never been disciplined in 24 years while Mrs. Kepler had been suspended twice for minor infractions.
So, it’s not like this guy had been getting drunk and busting up bars or firing warning shots at neighbors whose dogs were crapping in his yard. Perhaps he mistook this young man for someone who had been a poor influence on his daughter and he had hit his breaking point.
I know when my former stepdaughter was running with the wrong crowd when she was around that age, it would not have taken much more to push me over the edge with the POS she’d been dating who repeatedly beat her and worse. Fortunately, it never came to that and she did get her life together.
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"It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession. I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first” -Ronald Reagan
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patric
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« Reply #182 on: August 07, 2014, 05:12:42 pm » |
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the media needs to be taken to task over this. It was not a “police-related” shooting as neither of the suspects were on duty at the time. A suspect’s occupation is not usually a basis for the story.
“Tulsa police are investigating a crack dealer-related shooting”
“Tulsa police are investigating a CEO-related shooting”
“Tulsa police are investigating an auto mechanic-related shooting”.
They saw the opportunity and sensationalized it.
I dont think thats a good comparison, and police would probably be the first to tell you that. Back when the BoK center complained about off-duty police drinking while heeled there, The FOP replied: "Police Officers lead different lives from most citizens. When they go home from their shift, their responsibilities do not end. They must be concerned with their personal safety and that of their family if a person whom they have arrested recognizes them and would seek revenge, and they must uphold the oath that they take to defend the lives of citizens, even if they are off duty.” So being considered "on duty" while technically off duty is their choice, and comparisons between that and mechanics, etc, would only be valid if those mechanics posessed the same motivations and sanctions on the use of authority and force. |
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"Tulsa will lay off police and firemen before we will cut back on unnecessarily wasteful streetlights." -- March 18, 2009 TulsaNow Forum
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Conan71
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« Reply #183 on: August 07, 2014, 09:26:10 pm » |
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I dont think thats a good comparison, and police would probably be the first to tell you that.
Back when the BoK center complained about off-duty police drinking while heeled there, The FOP replied: "Police Officers lead different lives from most citizens. When they go home from their shift, their responsibilities do not end. They must be concerned with their personal safety and that of their family if a person whom they have arrested recognizes them and would seek revenge, and they must uphold the oath that they take to defend the lives of citizens, even if they are off duty.”
So being considered "on duty" while technically off duty is their choice, and comparisons between that and mechanics, etc, would only be valid if those mechanics posessed the same motivations and sanctions on the use of authority and force.
Sorry Patric, I’m not getting the connect there. |
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"It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession. I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first” -Ronald Reagan
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Hoss
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« Reply #184 on: August 07, 2014, 09:32:31 pm » |
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Latest release from the Tulsa World is that Mr. Kepler had never been disciplined in 24 years while Mrs. Kepler had been suspended twice for minor infractions.
So, it’s not like this guy had been getting drunk and busting up bars or firing warning shots at neighbors whose dogs were crapping in his yard. Perhaps he mistook this young man for someone who had been a poor influence on his daughter and he had hit his breaking point.
I know when my former stepdaughter was running with the wrong crowd when she was around that age, it would not have taken much more to push me over the edge with the POS she’d been dating who repeatedly beat her and worse. Fortunately, it never came to that and she did get her life together.
OK, so let me get this right. Are you insinuating this guy gets a pass because he 'mistook this young man for someone who had been a poor influence on his daughter'? Please tell me I'm reading that wrong. I don't know you incredibly well in the few times we've met, but I don't think you'd make that judgement. After the report on channel 6 tonight, all reports indicate this kid was a stand up kid. Maybe there were some things in his past we don't know about. Certainly nothing though that warranted the execution-style shooting he got. And certainly nothing that would warrant shooting at his own daughter FFS. |
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Libertarianism is a system of beliefs for people who think adolescence is the epitome of human achievement.
Global warming isn't real because it was cold today. Also great news: world famine is over because I just ate - Stephen Colbert.
Somebody find Guido an ambulance to chase...
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AquaMan
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« Reply #185 on: August 08, 2014, 06:49:23 am » |
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So much sadness. It hurts whenever I envision the kid introducing himself and reaching out to shake the cops hand. Only to be gunned down. Even people who have substance abuse problems are otherwise like the rest of us. One tends to judge by looking at them that because they have a mohawk, because their family is poor and looks trashy, that they are somehow different than us or that they are inherently morally defective. Yet they are often more stand up than the rest of us.
As a father, I have been mad enough to want to kill only later to find out that my anger was misplaced or less than useful. That is why I don't carry a gun. I know my rage, my anger, my limitations. Whatever his daughters choices, she was 18. Responsible for them and apparently had found someone interested in helping her.
The irony is that this guy has training for understanding the very issues he sucumbed to. And he trained others.
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onward...through the fog
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Conan71
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« Reply #186 on: August 08, 2014, 08:41:25 am » |
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OK, so let me get this right. Are you insinuating this guy gets a pass because he 'mistook this young man for someone who had been a poor influence on his daughter'? Please tell me I'm reading that wrong. I don't know you incredibly well in the few times we've met, but I don't think you'd make that judgement.
After the report on channel 6 tonight, all reports indicate this kid was a stand up kid. Maybe there were some things in his past we don't know about. Certainly nothing though that warranted the execution-style shooting he got. And certainly nothing that would warrant shooting at his own daughter FFS.
Oh, absolutely not. Just having a mental group grope trying to figure out how a cop who by all accounts has an exemplary record, was a great neighbor, father, etc. just snapped. I believe most cops view deadly force as a last resort on or off the job, that’s why this is such a bizarre murder. |
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"It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession. I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first” -Ronald Reagan
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Hoss
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« Reply #187 on: August 08, 2014, 09:57:22 am » |
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Oh, absolutely not. Just having a mental group grope trying to figure out how a cop who by all accounts has an exemplary record, was a great neighbor, father, etc. just snapped.
I believe most cops view deadly force as a last resort on or off the job, that’s why this is such a bizarre murder.
Yeah, I'm sure there are many variables at play here. But sad all the way around for sure. |
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Libertarianism is a system of beliefs for people who think adolescence is the epitome of human achievement.
Global warming isn't real because it was cold today. Also great news: world famine is over because I just ate - Stephen Colbert.
Somebody find Guido an ambulance to chase...
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Vashta Nerada
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« Reply #189 on: August 08, 2014, 09:47:15 pm » |
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Oh, absolutely not. Just having a mental group grope trying to figure out how a cop who by all accounts has an exemplary record, was a great neighbor, father, etc. just snapped.
Toxicology tests might provide a clue, assuming the delay in the arrest doesn't throw the results. The 'drug testing' the FOP allows is more for show than anything, maybe that will change? |
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Vashta Nerada
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« Reply #190 on: September 17, 2014, 07:01:55 pm » |
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With this event, Moore police have been granted "00-" status....
Private autopsy finds Norman man died of asphyxiation while in police custody at Warren Theater. Attorney says medical examiner's findings were clearly influenced by Moore police. http://www.koco.com/news/family-private-autopsy-finds-norman-man-died-of-asphyxiation-while-in-police-custody-at-warren-theater/28090168"In documents that we obtained from the medical examiner's office, there are recordings of calls that were placed, members of the Moore Police Department were actually going up to the office to speak to the medical examiner involved." The medical examiner ruled the death a homicide, but after the investigation was completed, the Cleveland County district attorney ruled that no charges would be filed against police officers. "The subject was lying face down on the ground with several police officers on top of his back causing a situation known positional asphyxia, in such position the subject is restricted in the movement of his diaphragm for breathing," said the family's attorney Kenyatta Bethea. Bethea said he made attempts to speak to the OSBI, but they would not have conversations with individuals. |
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DGoforthFrontier
Tourist
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Posts: 1
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« Reply #191 on: September 18, 2014, 10:00:17 am » |
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I can't get over just how strange it feels to have the state going through three nearly identical cases simultaneously. Even TCSO officials at the press conference Wednesday were kind of shaking their heads like "who knows?" http://goo.gl/g7cX5Q |
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heironymouspasparagus
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« Reply #193 on: September 25, 2014, 04:24:13 pm » |
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Another state to never go to.... |
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"So he brandished a gun, never shot anyone or anything right?" --TeeDub, 17 Feb 2018.
I don’t share my thoughts because I think it will change the minds of people who think differently. I share my thoughts to show the people who already think like me that they are not alone.
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Vashta Nerada
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« Reply #194 on: September 26, 2014, 10:56:07 pm » |
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Another state to never go to....
Not so fast. South Carolina fired the little Rambo, and the DA charged him with a crime. Here, they enjoy a nice long paid vacation while OSBI puts its spin on it. The cops name would have been secret until the DA's rubber-stamp absolution, and the TV crime reporters read the spokespersons script without asking any embarrassing questions that might jeopardize their ride-alongs. The director of the South Carolina Highway Patrol:
'Trooper Groubert reacted to a perceived threat where there was none. The department’s Use of Force Policy makes clear that officers shall use “only the level of force necessary to accomplish lawful objectives” and that “the use of force must be discontinued when it becomes apparent to the officer that the force is no longer needed.” ' Oklahoma, however, doesn't distinguish between real and imagined threats when an officer says he was acting "in fear." Our threshold for excusing deadly force is scandalously low, so we see more of it. The trooper also tried to use those well-rehearsed, stock excuses that are so sucessful here: "Trooper Groubert in his statement said that Mr. Jones presented an aggressive manner that he came toward his patrol car in an aggressive manner, that he reached into Mr. Jones vehicle in an aggressive manner like he was pulling something out. None of that was indicated on the video, none of that was present on the video. What we actually saw was Mr. Jones reaching in, obeying all commands that the trooper had given him, which was to simply give him his ID." |
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