Downtown Development Overview

[ELG4America]

It's on a different lot than the View, but it does look like their style.


Apparently El Guapo's downtown is now closed completely. They had been renovating it, and the South Tulsa location closed earlier this year. It always seemed busy pre-COVID, so I'm curious if they will use the space for a new concept soon.

There's a sign on the El Guapo's windows saying they're "taking the opportunity to renovate." If you've noticed the whole McNellies group is renovating their facilities, guess the figure now when their already taking an L they might as well get renovations out of the way. They must have some deep pocketed investors though.

[shavethewhales]

^I'm aware of the sign, but I was told by a former employee that they have abandoned the project. They were pretty disgruntled though, making all kinds of claims of them mishandling pandemic relief funds and treating employees badly. Some of it could be true, but who knows. It doesn't seem like much has moved at El Guapo's in awhile though. They could just be waiting for the pandemic to pass before re-opening though.

[TheArtist]

^I'm aware of the sign, but I was told by a former employee that they have abandoned the project. They were pretty disgruntled though, making all kinds of claims of them mishandling pandemic relief funds and treating employees badly. Some of it could be true, but who knows. It doesn't seem like much has moved at El Guapo's in awhile though. They could just be waiting for the pandemic to pass before re-opening though.

Going to wait till next summer?

[TulsaGoldenHurriCAN]

Going to wait till next summer?

I had no idea you were such an optimist! 


That might be smart though for big companies like that, while frustrating for employees, to use this time to renovate and know that it'll be a while. They need to adjust their game plan and expect fewer diners and a long drawn out "recovery", both financial and pandemic-wise. It was amazing seeing so many back in spring thinking it was going to be a couple months of social distancing then back to normal life despite every expert saying expect it to be around until there's a vaccine which will likely take til the end of 2020 just to get through some trials, but easily a year.

It'll be interesting to see how local companies like the McNellies group adapt. They have expanded quite a lot over the years and have a lot of financial exposure with some big projects. No matter what they choose on certain things, there will be blow back and lives negatively affected (jobs lost, favorite places closing), but if they don't adjust to reduce costs, the alternative could be much worse for them and residual effects to downtown Tulsa. I know they're getting government help, and probably better off than many smaller businesses, but it is hard to find a company more at-risk (in the most badly hit sector) with as much influence in downtown development as them. I certainly feel for all the up-start restaurants in 2020 like Veldy's. Have to remember to support those kinds of places, even if it's just to-go.

[LandArchPoke]

I'm not sure if this is still the case, but for a while a lot of McNellie's Group's concepts were all in buildings owned by their investors. That gives you a lot more flexibility in times like this when you don't have a landlord who cares about your long term viability and just wants the monthly rent check. So they might be conserving capital and won't finish the renos on El Guapo until close to spring. It would make more sense to relaunch a new/renovated rooftop and get people excited for it at the beginning of outdoor dining season in the spring than do it at the end of the summer/early fall when it's about to get cold.

[Vision 2025]

Unless it is an owner's cash or private equity funded project, I really can't imagine any commercial entertainment project receiving funding until at least the beginning of a documented Nation-wide Covid recovery.

[LandArchPoke]

Unless it is an owner's cash or private equity funded project, I really can't imagine any commercial entertainment project receiving funding until at least the beginning of a documented Nation-wide Covid recovery.

I work in that side of commercial real estate and the lending markets haven't really blinked outside of hotels and indoor malls. Once the fed's started printing money in the fashion they have and been buying up mortgages on the residential/commercial side most banks are still lending on on everything they would have previously. So I'd imagine as long as they have a healthy cash reserve to make mortgage payments for a while they'll be able to close on financing easily. A lot of people in the lending market too believe we're through the worst part of it and new construction/renovation lending is not seen as risky as it was 6 months ago. By the time any project that starts now is completed, most people feel like a vaccine will be available and society will be back to relatively normal operations by this time next year.  

Elliot has also said they've taken PPP money which can be used to pay rent, etc. So I'm sure that helps lessen the blow a bit on cash burn over the part where most everything was closed.

[shavethewhales]

111 Greenwood



21 North Greenwood getting closer to going vertical.



Fairfield parking deck looks like it is pretty close to being done.

[SXSW]

Is that ground-floor retail or garage space, or both, at 111 Greenwood?  Pretty sure 21 N Greenwood (GreenArch II) will have retail space fronting Greenwood.

[LandArchPoke]

Is that ground-floor retail or garage space, or both, at 111 Greenwood?  Pretty sure 21 N Greenwood (GreenArch II) will have retail space fronting Greenwood.

111 Greenwood was originally going to have retail along all of Greenwood but now it's just on the corner. I think they wanted to do a food hall but scaled it down once they found out Santa Fe Square wanted to put their parking garage fronting that project it didn't make sense to have as much retail there.

21 Greenwood I'm not sure how much of the first floor will have retail now since they gave part of the site to the museum. It might just be all office space on the ground floor now.

[ComeOnBenjals]

The downtown Hyatt Place has been under the radar... a pretty big deal considering it's a 13 story building on Tulsa's main downtown street. Looks almost finished.

[dbacksfan 2.0]

The downtown Hyatt Place has been under the radar... a pretty big deal considering it's a 13 story building on Tulsa's main downtown street. Looks almost finished.

Cool to see that, bet there is no 13th floor listed in the building. A bit of trivia, the Holiday Inn at 7th & Boulder has no 13th floor, and there are no room numbers that end in 13.

[918superboy]

Why is that? Are architects really that superstitious?

[Weatherdemon]

Why is that? Are architects really that superstitious?

The BOK/Williams Tower doesn't have a 13th floor either.

[dbacksfan 2.0]

Why is that? Are architects really that superstitious?

From what I have read over the years, and from talking to some architects is that it's not the superstition of the architect but the public at large that the 13th floor, or hotel rooms that end in 13 are omitted. Even in a vast majority of aircraft there is no row 13.

I actually went to school at Spartan and this is their logo