Tulsa's Economic "Core"

[Snowman]

Might be an exaggeration but not much of one...but the widening of Yale from 81st to 91st will trump all the street projects downtown in the last seven years.

It seems absurd to be widening a street with that density from two to six lanes, at most it should be four through lanes between 44 and the turnpike, maybe some turn lanes in sections. There are some interchange designs that having it six lanes at the 44 exit does help the traffic flow but extending that for miles is like flushing money down the toilet.

[Red Arrow]

It seems absurd to be widening a street with that density from two to six lanes, at most it should be four through lanes between 44 and the turnpike, maybe some turn lanes in sections. There are some interchange designs that having it six lanes at the 44 exit does help the traffic flow but extending that for miles is like flushing money down the toilet.

The dirt work and and utility moves should be done for 6 lanes but paving for 4 lanes should be sufficient for a while. Yale needs to be 4 lanes all the way to 121st.

Then Delaware / 121st needs to be 4 lanes too.  Yep, I want the bridge near Yale but even without that the roads need to be widened.  There is enough new housing still in Tulsa City limits to make that worthwhile.  And it's getting worse.

[Townsend]

Yale needs to be 4 lanes all the way to 121st.

Then Delaware / 121st needs to be 4 lanes too.  There is enough new housing still in Tulsa City limits to make that worthwhile.  And it's getting worse.

No way that's needed.  And I drive that area of Yale every day.

Is the bridge still in the works?

[Red Arrow]

No way that's needed.  And I drive that area of Yale every day.

What time of day?

It's not as bad as Memorial but south of the turnpike to 101st and somewhat to 111th  could use some help.  I assume the work around the elementary school at 101st helped.  I only get that way occasionally. The hill between 81st and 91st is just flat dangerous and no fun since the 70s.

Is the bridge still in the works?

I haven't heard anything recently but I doubt the move will ever completely die.  I would like to see an alternate to Memorial to get to Bixby, admittedly for somewhat selfish reasons.   I also think that without the bridge that commercial development south of the river would eventually take away from Tulsa what they could get with easier access.  Yale is an arterial, not a housing addition residential road.

[Townsend]

What time of day?

It's not as bad as Memorial but south of the turnpike to 101st and somewhat to 111th  could use some help.  I assume the work around the elementary school at 101st helped.  I only get that way occasionally. The hill between 81st and 91st is just flat dangerous and no fun since the 70s.

Rush hours on the weekdays.

I really doubt the residents on South Yale will allow that kind of expansion without a big fight.

[guido911]

$31 million not counting the millions needed for the new intersections...for one mile.

That development will be a mess.

[YoungTulsan]

Have there been any releases of diagrams/maps of the 81st to 91st project?  I'm curious how many houses are getting knocked out, if they are going completely straight through or still having some curvature to the roadway, etc ?  And of course there shall be soundwalls.   Lots and lots of soundwalls.

[Red Arrow]

Rush hours on the weekdays.

Be glad you are not trying to navigate Memorial.  Even Sat and Sun around noon is horrible.

I really doubt the residents on South Yale will allow that kind of expansion without a big fight.

And they probably have enough money/influence to win regardless of whether or not it would be good for Tulsa.  

If I had had the $, all the housing over here would have been at least 1/2 acre lots.  Same thing for south of the river that must use Memorial or Elwood to get to Tulsa.  

[heironymouspasparagus]

Rush hours on the weekdays.

I really doubt the residents on South Yale will allow that kind of expansion without a big fight.

They didn't learn anything from the Creek Turnpike fiasco??

Creek was planned as free road.  So many fools around 96th protested it that ODOT just turned it over to OTA and it was built quickly!  They knew when they moved there that a road was planned, so no legitimate grounds for complaint.  Same thing on south Yale....if a person and 10,000 of their closest buddies move into an area, the roads will be widened.

[TheArtist]

Bunch of danged social engineering, big government spending, free market hating, central government intrusion loving liberals.

Where are the conservatives when you need them? Why not get rid of the "forced march to suburbia" style zoning and let the free market do it's thing?  Why not allow for more density, aka more businesses and homes in an area paying for X amount of roads versus the, less density zoning with fewer people/businesses paying for more roads formula? Why have the government, liberally, build more and wider roads leading to "more stuff" further away, when you can allow private enterprise build the "more stuff" right there? 

If private enterprise want's to build a bridge on their property let them, if they want to widen the road, let them do that as well.  Keep the government out of it.

http://www.theamericanconservative.com/urbs/the-conservative-case-against-the-suburbs/

[Red Arrow]

Bunch of danged social engineering, big government spending, free market hating, central government intrusion loving liberals.

Where are the conservatives when you need them? Why not get rid of the "forced march to suburbia" style zoning and let the free market do it's thing?  Why not allow for more density, aka more businesses and homes in an area paying for X amount of roads versus the, less density zoning with fewer people/businesses paying for more roads formula? Why have the government, liberally, build more and wider roads leading to "more stuff" further away, when you can allow private enterprise build the "more stuff" right there?  

If private enterprise want's to build a bridge on their property let them, if they want to widen the road, let them do that as well.  Keep the government out of it.

http://www.theamericanconservative.com/urbs/the-conservative-case-against-the-suburbs/

Suburbia actually started before the automobile became so widely owned.  Public transportation allowed people to live farther from work than walking distance.  Small shopping areas popped up in support of new housing.

My neighborhood when a kid:
http://goo.gl/maps/cjcov

The next trolley stop:
http://goo.gl/maps/EuiN0

This didn't happen at every trolley stop but Transit Oriented Development often included businesses.

[TheArtist]

Suburbia actually started before the automobile became so widely owned.  Public transportation allowed people to live farther from work than walking distance.  Small shopping areas popped up in support of new housing.

My neighborhood when a kid:
http://goo.gl/maps/cjcov

The next trolley stop:
http://goo.gl/maps/EuiN0

This didn't happen at every trolley stop but Transit Oriented Development often included businesses.

Unfortunately, even a lot of what you show there would be illegal in Tulsa.  We have big government intrusion, social engineering, forced suburbia on steroids,,, and nobody bats an eye about it.

[Red Arrow]

Unfortunately, even a lot of what you show there would be illegal in Tulsa.

I agree and that needs to be fixed in the appropriate areas.

The point is that although the automobile gets most of the blame for suburbia, public transit enabled the beginnings of suburbia in the late 19th and early 20th century.

[TheArtist]

I agree and that needs to be fixed in the appropriate areas.

The point is that although the automobile gets most of the blame for suburbia, public transit enabled the beginnings of suburbia in the late 19th and early 20th century.

Absolutely, and I really have nothing against suburban development per say, it can be a good part of a healthy economy and growth pattern, especially if it's done in a way that allows it to evolve in time to become more pedestrian/transit friendly if an area may want or need that later.  But  just as we promote suburban style development, I can't imagine why we wouldn't also, allow, promote and zone for good urban development.  Having more urban development would actually alleviate some of the sprawl element to suburban development. We are far along enough with this "auto centric development" trend, that isn't going to go away, to have a good amount of knowledge to enable good zoning policies for both (urban and suburban development patterns) which would allow for a more natural, flexible and productive "ebb and flow" of demographic trends and desires. 

[sauerkraut]

The Fallin administration has done alot to bring in many different kinds of business to our state  so that Oklahoma is not a one industry  state anymoe. Tulsa's  old economic core of oil could be getting a big shot in the arm with the new republican senate, they have plans to bring in the Keystone Pipeline, many democrats in the senate also favor the Keystone Pipeline because of the jobs it will make, plus study after study showed that the Keystone will not harm a thing. The republican Senate (without Harry Reid blocking it anymore) will now have the votes to over-ride an Obama veto. I wonder if this election has anything to do with the big fall in oil prices, Texas has gasoline selling for $2.41 a gallon. The economy is looking good for Tulsa and the state.