Passenger Rail Set To Connect OKC, Tulsa

[RDW]

To answer CarltonPlace's question about moving the terminus from Sapulpa to somewhere nearer downtown:

I can't speak for Iowa Pacific Holdings, but my thought is that the terminus for these three excursion trips has been locked in.  All the publicity has already gone out specifying where to board, etc.  It would probably just be logistically difficult to change at this date.

[RDW]

Over the last couple of weeks, it feels like we're making progress in gathering meaningful opposition to ODOT's sale of the line (the "Sooner Sub") from Sapulpa to OKC.  Of course, there's a long way to go and it could still be sold with the stroke of the Governor's pen.

Please, if you are so inclined, call the Governor's office and voice your opinion.

The OKC City Council and the Tulsa City Council are working on a Joint Resolution to the Governor.  I think that would go a long way toward showing what the citizens want, never mind what large freight carriers want.  I must say, I'm very disappointed that our Mayor has not stepped up and acted in the public's interests.

I attended a meeting in the Governor's office a couple of weeks ago, where people discussed the possible sale of the Sooner Sub.  For nearly an hour, they discussed whether ODOT had the authority to sell the line.  No one, and I mean no one, discussed what was in Tulsa's best interests, or what was in the best interests of the people who live along the route.  That bothers me a lot. 

I'm rambling a bit.

If our efforts are successful, we will have to address "the last mile."  We will have to have meaningful, dependable, public transportation in the metro area.  There will have to be inter-city bus service and inter-city commuter rail.  We have to get past our unstated policy of geographic isolationism and work together. 

I also think that, for commuter rail, there should be a public investment in the infrastructure, such as the rail lines (which already exist), and maybe the rolling stock (or maybe not), etc., just as we pay to build and maintain our highways and streets.  But, I also think that the actual service ought to be provided free of operational subsidy.  I don't think the taxpayers ought to pay to operate the trains.  Fares will not cover the operational expenses, but sponsorships, advertising, etc., can.

Looking to the future, we need to go beyond Tulsa to the rest of NE Oklahoma and on to St Louis and Kansas City, thereby accessing the rest of the country without going to OKC and then Fort Worth.

We should also look at service from Tulsa to Bartlesville and Muskogee.   There may be enough commuter traffic, people who live and work in either, to justify that service, as well.  Don't know, just thinking that should be evaluated.

And of course, there should be a stop at the Tulsa Int'l Airport.

You guys always post well-reasoned opinions and you may disagree with some or most of this.  I'm just tossing it out there.

Have a great day.

[RecycleMichael]

RDW...is there a meeting coming up this week at Tulsa City Hall to talk about trains?

[RDW]

Our Tulsa Rail Advisory Committee is meeting Thursday at 10, City Council Conference Room

[Conan71]

Sort of un-related but it came to memory with Stroud being on the line between Tulsa and OKC.  There’s a sizable oil off-loading terminal at Stroud where they haul oil to the tank farm in Cushing by tank truck.  You’d think with Cushing being such a major oil crossroads, there would be a rail line in and out of Cushing.

[tulsabug]

Even if there was a Star Trek transporter in my living room that could take me to OKC in 1 second for free I still wouldn't want to go. 

[Red Arrow]

Even if there was a Star Trek transporter in my living room that could take me to OKC in 1 second for free I still wouldn't want to go. 

Not even for the experience of having your molecules scrambled?
 
 

[Red Arrow]

Sort of un-related but it came to memory with Stroud being on the line between Tulsa and OKC.  There’s a sizable oil off-loading terminal at Stroud where they haul oil to the tank farm in Cushing by tank truck.  You’d think with Cushing being such a major oil crossroads, there would be a rail line in and out of Cushing.

There used to be.

http://www.davidrumsey.com/rumsey/Size4/D5005/0425099.jpg%3Fuserid%3D15%26username%3Dlunaadmin%26resolution%3D4%26servertype%3DJVA%26cid%3D8%26iid%3DRUMSEY%26vcid%3DNA%26usergroup%3DRumsey3x%26profileid%3D13

http://www.okgenweb.org/okprojects/xref/map/ok-west.jpg
http://www.okgenweb.org/okprojects/xref/map/ok-east.jpg


Edit:
You can follow the abandoned ROW from Cushing to Davenport.  Look for the parallel rows of trees with the gentle curve between the tanks near the bottom and Kendricke Rd. The follow them mostly south, past Avery, past Kendrick, under I-44 and to the west side of Davenport.

http://goo.gl/maps/ltCTK

[Conan71]

There used to be.

http://www.davidrumsey.com/rumsey/Size4/D5005/0425099.jpg%3Fuserid%3D15%26username%3Dlunaadmin%26resolution%3D4%26servertype%3DJVA%26cid%3D8%26iid%3DRUMSEY%26vcid%3DNA%26usergroup%3DRumsey3x%26profileid%3D13

http://www.okgenweb.org/okprojects/xref/map/ok-west.jpg
http://www.okgenweb.org/okprojects/xref/map/ok-east.jpg


Edit:
You can follow the abandoned ROW from Cushing to Davenport.  Look for the parallel rows of trees with the gentle curve between the tanks near the bottom and Kendricke Rd. The follow them mostly south, past Avery, past Kendrick, under I-44 and to the west side of Davenport.

http://goo.gl/maps/ltCTK

That is such a huge oil depot, seems strange those lines were ever taken out or allowed to go dormant.

[Red Arrow]

That is such a huge oil depot, seems strange those lines were ever taken out or allowed to go dormant.

I would agree but the pipelines probably took away any profitability of rail transport.

[Conan71]

I would agree but the pipelines probably took away any profitability of rail transport.

Apparently they can't get enough of the oil grades they want at the volume they need through the pipes.  My understanding from one of the principals at the Stroud site is this is the same Canadian oil that would otherwise be carried by the proposed Keystone Pipeline.  The E/W line through Stroud intersected just south of Davenport at one point.

Curious how much a mile of rail costs to construct if the ROW is already owned.  Anyone know?  I can't imagine it's any more expensive than pipeline.  Might even be less, depends on the political agenda of people who write the permits for such things.

I've found it slightly more than fascinating that someone like Warren Buffet, whose investment firm makes millions upon millions transporting oil via BNSF, would also be opposed to the Keystone...as well as his political benefactors.  What, with more carbon emissions required for rail transit as well as many more potential spill hazards, rail really looks like an anachronism compared to the stated goals of the environmental types.

[dbacksfan 2.0]

Curious how much a mile of rail costs to construct if the ROW is already owned.  Anyone know?  I can't imagine it's any more expensive than pipeline.  Might even be less, depends on the political agenda of people who write the permits for such things.

Just as an example, when they rehabbed the 134 mile rail line between Eugene and Coquille, the cost, not including the price of purchasing the existing line, was $31 million or ~$230,000.00 per mile. This was an existing line and the ROW was already in place.

http://www.portofcoosbay.com/newsreleases2013/042913fullrailopen.pdf

This also got me to thinking about the CSX commercial and the claim that they "Move 1 ton of freight 500 miles on a gallon of diesel."  Did some searching and the best I could find, is that this is mostly true.

Calculating Fuel Efficiency

Ton-mile per gallon is a unit of measurement to describe the efficiency of hauling freight by various modes of transportation.

The rail industry tracks and reports revenue ton-miles in the “Annual Report to the Surface Transportation Board” (commonly referred to as the R1 Report). The “Ton-Miles of Freight” annual value is reported in Schedule 755, line 110 of the R1 Report. The rail industry also tracks and reports annual fuel usage in the R1 Report, Schedule 750, line 4. These two reported values are used to determine a system-wide train efficiency value.

For example, in 2010, the CSX ton-miles of freight reported in the R1 Report = 229,172,569,000 ton-miles and the CSX 2010 reported fuel usage = 490,049,749 gallons.

The 2010 CSX system-wide train efficiency metric equals  (229,172,569,000 ton-miles) divided by (490,049,749 gallons) equals 468 ton-miles per gallon.

In other words CSX trains, on average, can move a ton of freight nearly 500 miles on a gallon of fuel, based on our 2010 revenue ton miles and 2010 fuel use.

For example, a heavy-duty diesel truck that hauls 19 tons of freight a distance of 500 miles would consume approximately 71 gallons of diesel fuel. The efficiency of this freight haul would be calculated as:

(19 tons times 500 miles) divided by (71 gallons) equals 134 ton-miles per gallon.

This efficiency might be stated as “a truck can move a ton of freight 134 miles on a gallon of fuel.”

Similarly, a typical train might haul 3000 tons of freight 500 miles and consume approximately 3200 gallons of diesel fuel. The efficiency of this freight haul would be calculated as:

(3000 tons multiplied by 500 miles) divided by (3200 gallons) equals 469 ton-miles per gallon.

http://www.csx.com/index.cfm/about-csx/projects-and-partnerships/fuel-efficiency/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_efficiency_in_transportation

[jacobi]

Just a small thought here: I'd much rather have a train to KC than OKC.


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[Red Arrow]

Curious how much a mile of rail costs to construct if the ROW is already owned. 

If the ROW is abandoned, it might be difficult to get it back.  There are always some areas that have buildings or have reverted to other uses.

[nathanm]

What, with more carbon emissions required for rail transit

You got a cite for that? It seems possible, but I've seen the huge-donkey pump stations they have on some pipelines, and those clearly also use a significant amount of energy. My only problem with pipelines is that even well respected players in the industry manage to have their pipes rust through from time to time despite claiming to conduct regular inspections.