The Dumb Masses Love Surprises

[Conan71]

Around $340 billion at the current cost per enrollee in Medicare (between $7k and $16K per enrollee). 

The new system will spend over $20K per enrollee.

What a hoot! . . . and it will cost that YEARS before the benefits are administered. 

Heck, the machine will be more expensive than the product by the time the product is available. LOL! 

But, Gaspar, I thought I was just a government hater when I was pointing out that government never does anything as efficiently as private enterprise and they sure has heck wouldn't with HC reform. 

Sheesh even at $500 a month per individual (and coverage can be bought cheaper) for BCBS, the gov't would be better off to simply write a check directly to an uninsured individual to let them purchase their own private health plan or simply establish an HSA if they wanted an efficient solution.  They could also ensure that more people have coverage which was a cornerstone goal of the program.  Or they could write checks to small employers to underwrite the cost of insurance as a way to stimulate real job and productivity growth.

[Gaspar]

But, Gaspar, I thought I was just a government hater when I was pointing out that government never does anything as efficiently as private enterprise and they sure has heck wouldn't with HC reform. 

Sheesh even at $500 a month per individual (and coverage can be bought cheaper) for BCBS, the gov't would be better off to simply write a check directly to an uninsured individual to let them purchase their own private health plan or simply establish an HSA if they wanted an efficient solution.  They could also ensure that more people have coverage which was a cornerstone goal of the program.  Or they could write checks to small employers to underwrite the cost of insurance as a way to stimulate real job and productivity growth.

You're so funny.  You used "government" and "efficient" in the same sentence.

Sure an HSA program shielded from taxation would solve the problem, but that doesn't build government or provide a new unlimited source of plunder. 

Removal of restrictions that limit insurance competition combined with HSA establishment would only solve the "real" problem, but there are many problems that Obamacare addresses.  The primary problem is the establishment, nourishment and growth of government that cannot be revoked.  This provides the future funding source, campaign platform, and life blood for members of the current power base. 

Social security has simply run out of juice, and the people are weary of leverage against it.  The secondary problem is control.  Social Security used to provide control over the votes of seniors AND Republicans.  SS is now weak and has become more Social than Secure, something new needs to take it's place as a campaign weapon.

Obamacare offers the moochers an opportunity to throw up their hands and surrender a basic personal responsibility to government.  It gives the looters a shiny new yolk to fix around the necks of the producers.  It's future aspirations are to marinate the public in fear that this politician or that party will take away a persons access to "health".  The tactic is well practiced.

The problem is that this type of program is unsustainable, and we know that.  President Obama knows that.  Speaker Pelosi knows that.  The program will however provide a huge power base for at least a decade before it collapses on itself and something new and far more tyrannical is derived.

A tyranny based on … deception and maintained by terror must inevitably perish from the poison it generates within itself. – Albert Einstein

The welfare of the people in particular has always been the alibi of tyrants, and it provides the further advantage of giving the servants of tyranny a good conscience. – Albert Camus

[nathanm]

Or they could write checks to small employers to underwrite the cost of insurance as a way to stimulate real job and productivity growth.

Last I checked, that is one component of the bill. There are tax credits for small businesses that provide insurance but aren't legally required to under the bill.

As far as medicare cost per enrollee, of course it's larger than most private health plans (despite overhead being lower). It consists entirely of the segment of society that most uses health benefits!

[heironymouspasparagus]

100 billion per year over the next 10 years for health care.

Almost sounds like a lot of money.  That doesn't bother me near as much as a trillion a year for an overpaid professional paid mercenary army.  Especially when we could pay a third the money for a bunch of draftees who could then fulfill their civic duty of service to their country.  Instant $300 billion per year savings (or so).

Let everyone gain the confidence, poise and experience of doing something good for themselves and their fellow Americans.  Actually live the philosophy of "ask not what your country can do for you...".

New enlistee comes in about $1400 per month.  Reaching about E3 after basic and one advanced training, you are looking at about $1700 per month.  Count the free housing, food, medical, dental, transportation, training,..well you get the idea... that leaves about $1375 per month disposable cash income, going up to about $1675.  Anyone out there have that much extra cash every month??

500 per month is more than enough.  Certainly more than I get.  And probably most of us here.  Well, except for the rich right wing.

Up to probably E4 or E5 it should be draftees only.

[Red Arrow]

New enlistee comes in about $1400 per month.  Reaching about E3 after basic and one advanced training, you are looking at about $1700 per month.  Count the free housing, food, medical, dental, transportation, training,..well you get the idea... that leaves about $1375 per month disposable cash income, going up to about $1675.  Anyone out there have that much extra cash every month??

500 per month is more than enough.  Certainly more than I get.  And probably most of us here.  Well, except for the rich right wing.

Up to probably E4 or E5 it should be draftees only.

I was in the US Navy during the transition from draft/volunteer to volunteer in the early 70s'. I was drafted in July 72.  I joined the Navy rather than go in the Army.  Personal choice,  I do not want to belittle anyone's choice of service branch.

Let us not forget that free housing is frequently living in the barracks.  After initial training, for shore duty that was mostly a 4 man room with the shower and toilets down the hall somewhere.  As an E-5, (my last two years of 4 active duty) I was eligible for a 2 man room if one was available.  If some E-6s wanted it, I would get bumped back to a 4 man room.  The allowance for quarters if one chose to live off base would only cover a dump in the NAS Oceana (Va Beach, VA) area if you got a roomie.

Food in the chow hall was generally not bad.  Thanksgiving they would have real turkey.  Breakfast included real eggs.  Trying to satisfy tastes from around the country was never quite possible as everyone wanted things cooked just a bit differently.  This was all shore duty.  Sea duty food depended somewhat on the size of your boat/ship. The allowance for food if you lived off base was enough to eat in the chow hall on a charge per meal basis.

I was fortunate enough to not need much of the "free" medical and dental benefits.  I put free in quotes because I was making a LOT less than I would have as a degreed mechanical engineer in the civilian world.  (I applied for OCS but they were full.)

Things that were free when my hitch started converted to fees similar to the civilian world by the time I was done.  The "Hobby Shop Garage" started by only charging for consumables like the grease gun.  By the end of my hitch, they were charging for time on the lift etc. 

When I was in the Navy, I paid Social Security and US and Oklahoma (address of record) income taxes.  Want to start saving for your future? Take about 10% to 15% of your gross off the top.  I don't know if the service has something like a 401K available.

Training? Do you think that private businesses do not provide training?  When I got out of the Navy, I went to TU and got a Master's Degree on the GI bill.  A friend from my pre-Navy college days got a MBA paid for by his employer.   

$500 per month is enough?  For what?  Living like a hermit?  Sure if you are on ship or in a war zone there may not be much to spend your $ on.  Not all duty is always that way. Some first hitch people are married and have to support a family.  Transportation from the barracks to your work place may be provided (shoes).  If you do anything for entertainment, you will at least need to pay for public transportation, if it's available.  Most of the bases I've been to are not right next to anything.  Our service people deserve better,  even if they are draftees.

Do you believe that a select portion of the citizens (universal service would probably be more expensive than what we now have just due to quantity of people) should give up nearly everything for several years while their buddies are out starting their careers?  That's hardly a way to convince anyone to stay to become an E-6 or above.  All draftees below E-5?  Can you imagine the effectiveness of the service if everyone was a beginner.  As it is now, we have some talented, dedicated personnel serving our country well past the time of a drafted enlistment.  Make the service unattractive enough and all you will have is draftees and personnel that can't make it on the outside.  Not the service I want protecting me.

The above mostly covers enlisted ranks.  What about Officers?   Draftees below what level?  O-5?  Pay them dirt too?  Expect any continuity?

[Red Arrow]

Well, except for the rich right wing.

Rich right wing, Kennedys, Algore, Obama, Clintons, Warren Buffet.....  There's a lot of money left of center.  Enough that they don't mind being taxed at a stupidly high rate.  If they can't find an accountant to get around the taxes, they still have well more than $500/month for toys and other fluff.

The number of financially comfortable (have more than $500/month above basic necessities) people I know or have known is composed of a significant percentage of people left of center.