Is The Occupy Wall Street Movement an Answer to The Tea Party Movement?

[Teatownclown]

Seems like many of you dislike the selfless while favoring the selfish. The GOP/Teabagger crowd's having a problem with non violent free speech civil disobedience?

Do you find it strange the Chinese businessman also hate unions?

Children of the corn versus the "hippies"?

[dbacks fan]

In 1848, Thoreau gave lectures at the Concord Lyceum entitled "The Rights and Duties of the Individual in relation to Government."[1] This formed the basis for his essay, which was first published under the title Resistance to Civil Government in 1849 in an anthology called Æsthetic Papers. The latter title distinguished Thoreau's program from that of the "non-resistants" (anarcho-pacifists) who were expressing similar views. Resistance also served as part of Thoreau's metaphor comparing the government to a machine: when the machine was producing injustice, it was the duty of conscientious citizens to be "a counter friction" (i.e., a resistance) "to stop the machine."[2]

In 1866, four years after Thoreau's death, the essay was reprinted in a collection of Thoreau's work (A Yankee in Canada, with Anti-Slavery and Reform Papers) under the title Civil Disobedience. Today, the essay also appears under the title On the Duty of Civil Disobedience, perhaps to contrast it with William Paley's Of the Duty of Civil Obedience to which Thoreau was in part responding. For instance, the 1960 New American Library Signet Classics edition of Walden included a version with this title. On Civil Disobedience is another common title.

The word civil has several definitions. The one that is intended in this case is "relating to citizens and their interrelations with one another or with the state", and so civil disobedience means "disobedience to the state". Sometimes people assume that civil in this case means "observing accepted social forms; polite" which would make civil disobedience something like polite, orderly disobedience. Although this is an acceptable dictionary definition of the word civil, it is not what is intended here. This misinterpretation is one reason the essay is sometimes considered to be an argument for pacifism or for exclusively nonviolent resistance. For instance, Mahatma Gandhi used this interpretation to suggest an equivalence between Thoreau's civil disobedience and his own satyagraha.[3]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_Disobedience_(Thoreau)

[Gaspar]

Seems like many of you dislike the selfless while favoring the selfish. The GOP/Teabagger crowd's having a problem with non violent free speech civil disobedience?

Do you find it strange the Chinese businessman also hate unions?

Children of the corn versus the "hippies"?

I see it as exactly the opposite.  This is the march of sloth.  Demands of security over opportunity.

You don't have to be wealthy to be greedy.

Greed does not create wealth, it destroys it.

[Cats Cats Cats]

Greed does not create wealth, it destroys it.

Cite some examples because this is mostly complete BS.  Though there might be a few exceptions to the rule.  Greed is a selfish desire for something, money, power, etc.  Almost all politicians are greedy.  Pretty sure no congressmen or senator isn't creating wealth.

[guido911]

Diane Sawer having an Obama moment. The OWS has spread to over 1,000 countries?

http://newsbusters.org/sites/default/files/DianeSawyer-thousandcountries-2011-10-10.mp3

[guido911]

Cite some examples because this is mostly complete BS.  Though there might be a few exceptions to the rule.  Greed is a selfish desire for something, money, power, etc.  Almost all politicians are greedy.  Pretty sure no congressmen or senator isn't creating wealth.

Who is creating wealth? And why should those with wealth be required to do anything with it?

[Cats Cats Cats]

Who is creating wealth? And why should those with wealth be required to do anything with it?

Objection, relevance.

[Teatownclown]

I see it as exactly the opposite.  This is the march of sloth.  Demands of security over opportunity.

You don't have to be wealthy to be greedy.

Greed does not create wealth, it destroys it.

To get wealthy, greed takes the drivers seat. There's nothing wrong with that. But once you're wealthy (Koch heads etc.) then to refuse to spread that wealth is wrong. To continue to build on that wealth while holding others down through political power instead of offering a helping hand up is criminal.

This movement is about how we fund our elections and politicians. It's at the core of special interests over the greater good for society.

And greed does not destroy wealth, but it can inhibit growth. When those in power ignore the disparity in opportunity there is trouble at their door.

"Their walls are built of canon balls their motto is don't tread on me." (Hunter/Garcia)

[Red Arrow]

Who is creating wealth? And why should those with wealth be required to do anything with it?

\

You are forgetting that there is a fininte amount of wealth.  It cannot be created, only spread around.

Well, maybe not.
 
 

[Gaspar]

Cite some examples because this is mostly complete BS.  Though there might be a few exceptions to the rule.  Greed is a selfish desire for something, money, power, etc.  Almost all politicians are greedy.  Pretty sure no congressmen or senator isn't creating wealth.

Greed is desire without reason.

Greed is the primary downfall of all people, wealthy and poor.  

Greed causes people to make decisions based emotion alone.  Common sense gives way to desire.  Morality gives way to desire. Responsibility gives way to desire.

Greed is the foundation of the deadliest of sins.

[Gaspar]

To get wealthy, greed takes the drivers seat. There's nothing wrong with that.

I thought you had to be lucky to get wealthy?  You contradict yourself.

To get wealthy, requires hard work, determination, innovation, or perhaps luck, but the lucky do not stay wealthy.


Here is the question I need you to answer:
If wealth is your goal, how does greed help you to attain it?

[Cats Cats Cats]

Greed is desire without reason.

Greed is the primary downfall of all people, wealthy and poor.  

Greed causes people to make decisions based emotion alone.  Common sense gives way to desire.  Morality gives way to desire. Responsibility gives way to desire.

Greed is the foundation of the deadliest of sins.

You still don't have an actual example where wealth is destroyed and Gordon Gekko disagrees.

[Gaspar]

You still don't have an actual example where wealth is destroyed and Gordon Gekko disagrees.

Really?
You can't figure this one out for yourself?

Pretend that below is a list of every company that has fallen for insider trading:

Pretend that below is a list of politicians that have fallen for taking bribes/illegal contributions:

Pretend that below is a list of formerly wealthy people in jail who compromised their ethics in pursuit of wealth:

Now pretend that there is a list of every person who has been imprisoned or executed for using force against another for the purpose of acquiring money:


Now it's your turn.  Give me an example of where greed created wealth without ultimately destroying it? 
Be careful, there is a trap here.

[Cats Cats Cats]

Really?
You can't figure this one out for yourself?

Pretend that below is a list of every company that has fallen for insider trading:

Companies fall for insider trading?  I thought it was an individual that bought and sold shares of a stock.  That person would spend $1 million on stock from somebody who sold it for $1 million (0 wealth created) then sell it for $2 million to somebody who bought it for $2 million (0 wealth created).  The money they would be forced to pay in damages goes to the government which in theory would be that much less we have to pay in taxes

Pretend that below is a list of politicians that have fallen for taking bribes/illegal contributions:
That isn't wealth lost, I bet Tom Delay is way better off than when he had 3 tax liens on his business for failure to pay payroll taxes.
Pretend that below is a list of formerly wealthy people in jail who compromised their ethics in pursuit of wealth:
Yes they are in jail but they still might have more wealth than they would have had otherwise.  It is probably 50/50 on this it depends if all of your gains are "ill gotten" or just part of them.  If you pull a Ken Lay and you make a bunch of money legally then you will lose wealth.  But Bernie Madhoff is probably better than before financially.  Just in jail.

Now pretend that there is a list of every person who has been imprisoned or executed for using force against another for the purpose of acquiring money:
The prison system gets paid more than they probably stole still no wealth destroyed.   In fact I think that is a net job creator.

Now it's your turn.  Give me an example of where greed created wealth without ultimately destroying it?  


Be careful, there is a trap here.

It has been accused that Ford knew of the Pinto problems but it was cheaper to pay the judgements than to recall the cars.  So I think that is one example.

[Gaspar]

It has been accused that Ford knew of the Pinto problems but it was cheaper to pay the judgements than to recall the cars.  So I think that is one example.

That's it?

In 1979 Ford initiated a recall that cost the company $20 million dollars, but before that, Mother Jones published articles showing that Ford conducted cost analysis against human life.  A legacy that will haunt the automaker for ever, and remains a case study in ethics.

Imagine how much more wealth Lee Iacocca and Ford could have created if greed had not taken control.  Instead, he was fired from Ford because of the Pinto debacle, as was many on his team of advisers.

You have provided an excellent example of what happens when greed is present.