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TeeDub
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« Reply #45 on: March 29, 2012, 02:12:22 pm » |
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I like hate crimes. They are like normal crimes, just illegal-er.
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nathanm
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« Reply #46 on: March 29, 2012, 02:42:49 pm » |
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I like hate crimes. They are like normal crimes, just illegal-er.
It's called a sentence enhancement. Only this one actually has to be proven, unlike most of the crap in the federal sentencing guidelines. |
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"Labor is prior to and independent of capital. Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if labor had not first existed. Labor is the superior of capital, and deserves much the higher consideration" --Abraham Lincoln
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Teatownclown
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« Reply #47 on: March 29, 2012, 04:27:10 pm » |
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jesus didnt need a gun....  |
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Conan71
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« Reply #48 on: March 29, 2012, 04:45:51 pm » |
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jesus didnt need a gun.... Yeah, but he had a REALLY good life insurance plan. |
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"It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession. I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first” -Ronald Reagan
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azbadpuppy
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« Reply #49 on: March 29, 2012, 05:15:32 pm » |
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What you are describing is a crime of or involving hate but "Hate Crimes" are specific to groups that are typically a minority and have laws passed referring specifically to that group.
The last I heard, anyone can murder a white man and whether it involves hate or not, it is not a "Hate Crime". It is still murder, manslaughter, or whatever but not a "Hate Crime".
Edit:
I looked around and perhaps the term I should have used is "Hate Crime Law" for the law that increases the penalties for crimes against protected groups.
This is absolutely false. If someone murders you because you are white, that is a hate crime, because hate crime laws include all races. So you are, indeed, a protected class whether you like it or not. Apparently Zimmerman used racial slurs in the 911 call before he shot Martin, so if hate can be proven as a motive for this shooting, he could be charged with a hate crime. Hate crime laws exist because to commit a violent act against someone because you hate the color of their skin, or their religion, or their sexual identity, is especially heinous. It goes above and beyond just the random act of violence, and should be punished accordingly. |
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« Last Edit: March 29, 2012, 05:17:24 pm by azbadpuppy »
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patric
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« Reply #50 on: March 29, 2012, 05:36:09 pm » |
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Hate crime laws exist because to commit a violent act against someone because you hate the color of their skin, or their religion, or their sexual identity, is especially heinous. It goes above and beyond just the random act of violence, and should be punished accordingly.
Hate Crime laws exist because someone in the chain of justice didn't act properly with existing laws. Unfortunately, the burden of acting on the Hate Crime law falls on the shoulders of the same prosecutors and/or enforcers that failed in the first place. |
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"Tulsa will lay off police and firemen before we will cut back on unnecessarily wasteful streetlights." -- March 18, 2009 TulsaNow Forum
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azbadpuppy
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« Reply #51 on: March 29, 2012, 05:36:23 pm » |
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Who gets to determine a shooting like this was a hate crime? Why wasn’t the killing of two white people by two black men in Hicks Park back in September ruled or even insinuated as a hate crime? Perhaps those young men had a hatred of white people and that’s why they singled out these two instead of robbing a couple of black people. It’s almost as if blacks, Hispanics, gays, or women aren’t capable of hate crimes, only white, straight males. And that right there is an example of profiling.
The actions of the perpetrators determine if it is a hate crime. Did they single these people out because they were white? Did they shout "Honky" or "Cracker" while they were killing them? In this case, the two victims were targeted for a robbery, which appears to be the motivation for the crime. While horrible and senseless, it's not a hate crime. In contrast to this, take the Chilean gay man that was just tortured and beaten to death, and then swastikas were carved all over his body. The perps were all known neo-nazis. This is an obvious case of a crime motivated by hate. Other cases aren't quite as obvious.... Was Zimmerman motivated by hate? We don't know for sure yet, but the mounting evidence doesn't look good for him. |
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Red Arrow
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« Reply #52 on: March 29, 2012, 06:48:07 pm » |
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If someone murders you because you are white, that is a hate crime, because hate crime laws include all races.
So you are, indeed, a protected class whether you like it or not.
It's not a matter of liking it or not. My perception is that a hate crime against a white male (if it really does exist) will not be prosecuted as vigorously as the other way around. I can well imagine you will say my perception is wrong. I say do (not just you personally) something to correct that perception other than spouting rules and regulations. |
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nathanm
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« Reply #53 on: March 29, 2012, 07:28:09 pm » |
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My perception is that a hate crime against a white male (if it really does exist) will not be prosecuted as vigorously as the other way around.
While the reality of the situation is that a crime is much more likely to go without serious investigation if the perp is white and the victim is black. Perhaps not in cases where a hate crime law might be invoked, but in general. I prefer to believe it's not due to racist intent, but just a side effect that gives the appearance of overt racism. |
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« Last Edit: March 29, 2012, 07:30:04 pm by nathanm »
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"Labor is prior to and independent of capital. Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if labor had not first existed. Labor is the superior of capital, and deserves much the higher consideration" --Abraham Lincoln
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Red Arrow
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« Reply #54 on: March 29, 2012, 08:03:00 pm » |
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While the reality of the situation is that a crime is much more likely to go without serious investigation if the perp is white and the victim is black. Perhaps not in cases where a hate crime law might be invoked, but in general. I prefer to believe it's not due to racist intent, but just a side effect that gives the appearance of overt racism.
I was referring specifically to invoking the hate crime route. Crime in general like drugs, robbery, vandalism and some more, I will agree that a black person will more likely be prosecuted than a white person. |
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azbadpuppy
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« Reply #55 on: March 29, 2012, 11:35:31 pm » |
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It's not a matter of liking it or not. My perception is that a hate crime against a white male (if it really does exist) will not be prosecuted as vigorously as the other way around. I can well imagine you will say my perception is wrong. I say do (not just you personally) something to correct that perception other than spouting rules and regulations.
I think that's a common perception among many white people who have never experienced discrimination, or violent acts commite against them just because they are "different". I am curious as to why this perception exists. Do you know any cases of hate crimes being committed against white people that went unpunished? Not saying it doesn't happen, but I can't think of any. I certainly can think of many, many examples of what I would consider hate crimes commited against jews, blacks, gays, asians, muslims, etc that never get prosecuted as such. Regardless of the perception, the law is very useful if only to give offenders a reason to second-guess their actions. I think it probably deters some acts of discrimination. I really don't understand the dislike and opposition to the law since its there to protect all of us, and why is having laws against intolerance, bigotry and hate a bad thing? |
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Gaspar
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« Reply #56 on: March 30, 2012, 06:29:40 am » |
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Need clarification. . .
I will be driving to Lake Fork this afternoon to catch large-mouth black bass. I don't' hate them, but I am going to kill them because they are black bass and I crave their flesh. I won't be keeping any white bass or catfish.
It is not illegal for me to do so, unless I catch over my limit. If I catch over my limit, is it illegal-er because I'm targeting only black bass?
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When attacked by a mob of clowns, always go for the juggler.
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RecycleMichael
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« Reply #57 on: March 30, 2012, 06:35:14 am » |
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Why are green olives in a jar but black olives are in a can?
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Power is nothing till you use it.
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Red Arrow
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« Reply #58 on: March 30, 2012, 06:48:12 am » |
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I think that's a common perception among many white people who have never experienced discrimination, or violent acts commite against them just because they are "different".
I haven't had violent acts done to me because I was white but I have been discriminated against. I did get into a fight with a Navy barracks roomie who was Puerto Rican but we had both had a few adult beverages. I didn't get a summer job during my college years that I had the previous two summers because I am white. That year the job was reserved for a minority. I also was told by a Navy electronics instructor that Polish people are stupid and he never had one do any good in his class. I am 1/2 Polish on my dad's side, my last name is Polish. I took care of that instructor by getting the highest grade of my classmates in that class. |
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Red Arrow
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« Reply #59 on: March 30, 2012, 06:51:03 am » |
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Why are green olives in a jar but black olives are in a can?
Green olives are in a glass jar so you can see if they are stuffed with red pimentos. Definitely a case of color discrimination. |
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