moving to Tulsa, Flooding?

[shadows]

www.tulsalibrary.org/govdocs/floods.HTM

I do not read where they suggest to dropping the flood insurance

[rwarn17588]

Hellooooo! It's been reported that Tulsa has among the lowest flood insurance RATES in the nation.

That doesn't mean you should take your chances without flood insurance if you live on a floodplain. No one in his right mind advocates that.

Shadows, first you get caught in a falsehood about rainfall. Then you try to be misleading in the facts. Cut it out.

[BixB]

See http://www.fema.gov/news/newsrelease.fema?id=8679 for 2000 FEMA press release wherein it is stated "because of the city's efforts, beginning next month Tulsa property owners will enjoy the lowest flood insurance rates in the country."

[shadows]

Having paid flood insurance since 1977 I have not seen such decrease in premiums that is suggested.  

Having bought property that the Highway department assured me that the section of roadway to the bomber plant was above the floodway when built in 40's.  Their engineering sheets were turned over to the city when annexed and seems the engineering sheets have disappeared.  

The flood of '84 dumped 14 inches of rain fall in a short time.  Convert that to acre feet over 61 square miles and get from SWM the total that can be stored in the frog ponds.  The water enters into the basin more than eight times the exit speed.

Since the first work on the Mingo flood control begin the depth of the flood waters have increased.  More of the floodway has been filled restricting the flow downstream.

It is easy to draw it on paper but when one stands in water that increased to one inch above four drawer file cabinets it is hard to see where flood controls are working.  

[BixB]

Not sure what shadows is talking about at all in this thread.  The present day Mingo Creek Flood Control project is a result of Congressional authorization in the Water Resources Development Act of 1986.  The city did some work on its own before that date, but it was't until after 86 that the majority of the project was implemented. The total project, built in various phases, wasn't complete until 2001 and included 19 separate contracts.  There is absolutely no question that the project has had an enormous impact in eliminating and/or reducing flooding that previously occurred in its watershed.

[rwarn17588]

BixB wrote:

Not sure what shadows is talking about at all in this thread.

<end clip>

You could put that on shadows' tombstone. [}:)]

[Hoss]

I grew up living in the Mingo Creek flood control basin at about 3rd and Mingo.  I live there now, and can tell you when I was about 8 or 9 (mid 70s) that the Mingo Creek flowing the mile from Admiral to 11th was a mess.  Narrow and heavily wooded.

Before the grading and widening of the creek began, I can remember even before the 84 flood having some floods that were scary.  I can remember hopping in the truck with my father and driving down by Eastwood Church on 11th street just to look at the bridge and see how high the water was.  Many, many times that water would be less than 6 feet from the bottom of the bridge.

With the new flood controls in place, during the heaviest rains I can ever remember, the most I've ever seen it rise is about halfway from the creek bed.  I'd say that's some progress.

You can cite numbers all you like.  I lived the 84 flood.  Our house missed flooding by 1/2 of an inch, and only because ours was one of two houses that sat on a higher porch.  I can remember the following weekend it rained again, and hearing the alternating high-low of the civil defense sirens signifying flood.

Guess what...I've never heard that siren again.  I'd say we do have a model system in town.

[Hoss]

quote:Originally posted by shadows

Having paid flood insurance since 1977 I have not seen such decrease in premiums that is suggested.  

Having bought property that the Highway department assured me that the section of roadway to the bomber plant was above the floodway when built in 40's.  Their engineering sheets were turned over to the city when annexed and seems the engineering sheets have disappeared.  

The flood of '84 dumped 14 inches of rain fall in a short time.  Convert that to acre feet over 61 square miles and get from SWM the total that can be stored in the frog ponds.  The water enters into the basin more than eight times the exit speed.

Since the first work on the Mingo flood control begin the depth of the flood waters have increased.  More of the floodway has been filled restricting the flow downstream.

It is easy to draw it on paper but when one stands in water that increased to one inch above four drawer file cabinets it is hard to see where flood controls are working.  

You may not have seen the decreases because your house wasn't designated as being in the flood plain.  If it is, you are mandated by federal statute to carry insurance, or at least that's the way it was when the square mile I grew up in was considered flood plain.

My parents were paying, right before the flood, about $1000 dollars a year for flood insurance alone because their regular home insurance carrier wouldn't bond flood insurance.  Now, the regular home insurance covers the flood insurance, and we're paying about 600 dollars a year in 07 for all coverages, not just flood insurance.  Big difference.

You must be designated in the flood plain before you can see the difference

[shadows]

OK you lose me on this insurance.  I am told that Hartford underwrites high risk policies on flood insurance which is subsided by the government.   The homeowner polices I carry cover interior flooding caused by leaking interior plumbing not acts of  God nor nature.  

[cannon_fodder]

Shadow's, no matter what kind of work the City of Tulsa does on its flood control measures; it will not effect the rate of your insurance for "flooding" caused by plumbing.   It is, in no way, the domain of the city to diminish flooding in your home caused by your home.

[shadows]

At the present time I am paying $340 flood insurance through Hartford and $850 homeowners insurance to Republic on my residence in a undefined flood area.

I have property in the designated flood area that I pay only for flood  insurance through Hartford.  I have property on high ground that I pay homeowners on only.  

The water ran over the Pork Chop retention and flooded the intersection at 11&Mingo as well as the school and church on 11th in the 84 flood.  The water ran so fast through the 144 overpass a boat could not be controlled.   Since that time ever square foot  of concrete and buildings add in the 61 sq miles change the impervious areas which also changes cubic feet of space that is needed in the retention ponds.  No one will tell one that it cannot happen again.

Sure is nice to have some one straiten me out on what happened.   Lol  [][]  

[RecycleMichael]

The city has also built additional detention areas upstream since 1984. Your home is now safer from a flood than it was 23 years ago.

I also realize nothing I, nor any amount of hydrologists, can say to convince you we are right.

[shadows]

Recycle:

Are you a hydrologist?  

When I first got involved in this we tried to find a school of Hydrology.  Since; some schools have added hours in their curriculum.  The facts on flooding have changed since this morning.  Like the old cliché of meteorology. "Using the best way to predict the weather is look out the window."  The dikes on the Mississippi as well as those in New Orleans caused the river to rise and when the water breached them the flooding was increased to new depts.  

The figures on how many acre feet can be stored in the detention ponds seem to be an elusive number.   Go to the railroad bridge a half mile north of pine and you will see that all that fancy channel ends there and with little effort one could  have jump across the Mingo Creek the last time I look at it.   The last I heard was Owasso said if you send that water on us we'll sue you. We have a federal code called the Water Resources Development Act of 1986.  The interpretation of this act is written on the back of the IRS code of instructions I believe.

When I was a child our family went on overnight fishing trips, camping out on the banks of the Mingo.  Where? Where 21st now goes over the Mingo.  

[TheArtist]

Has anyone noticed how Shadows lives in the past?  It was this way in such a such a year, so its that way now. Its as if he learns something once, then everything after that doesn't happen, doesn't mattter or exist. Unless it fits his hypothesis based on how it was. lol

[rwarn17588]

You're far too generous, Artist.

Shadows is simply being dishonest to promote his ill-conceived agenda.