The Tulsa Forum by TulsaNow

Everyone's invited....
http://www.planitulsa.org/

Please join Mayor Kathy Taylor for the citywide launch of PLANiTULSA:

Tuesday, May 13th, 2008
4:30 – 6:30 p.m.

A once-in-a-generation opportunity to shape the next 30 years of Tulsa's growth.

5 p.m. - Presentation by Mayor Taylor and nationally renowned community planner, John Fregonese.

Location: Central Center at Centennial Park
1028 E. 6th St. (6th & Peoria)

Please RSVP to planitulsarsvp@sbcglobal.net or contact Jami Fichte at 599-0029

Oh I get it...VISION 2038...great.  Just great.

quote:

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Originally posted by cks511

Oh I get it...VISION 2038...great.  Just great.

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Well we started construction years ago on Tulsa's future (v2025) and now we are going to draw up the plans for it... Kinda like Ready, Fire, Wait 5 years, Aim.

I am tired of all this vision. I want to use the other senses.

How about Smell 2025?

Taste 2025?

I would suggest Feel 2025, but I would probably get arrested.

Vision 2038...

*low water dams
*arena maintenance
*westbank development
*arena maintenance
*thousands of jobs
*arena maintenance
*water in the river
*arena maintenance
*drillers

......okay nevermind. I'm done.

quote:

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Originally posted by cks511

Vision 2038...

*low water dams
*arena maintenance
*westbank development
*arena maintenance
*thousands of jobs
*arena maintenance
*water in the river
*arena maintenance
*drillers

......okay nevermind. I'm done.

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*Consolidated Mass Transit. Rail, buses, park& ride and call&ride. Everyone should be able to get from their house to downtown or vice-versa in 30 minutes or less.
*Outlaw all surface lot parking inside the IDL. Structured and on-street parking only. Serial parkers to have cars covered in Mayonnaise.

Whats wrong with vision 2038?  Do we really think that planning is a bad idea?

These kinds of meetings help a lot to educate citizens about the process and how to get involved.  

I am planning on going...RM, I am with you bro, we need a lot more "feeling" going on around here...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YtKT6QDYOQ8
[:D]

Here's another way to think about the Comp Plan, and how it applies to shaping Tulsa's future: Instead of having to go to the TMAPC or BOA or City Council to fight for what's right week after week, issue by issue...we could come up with a sound plan for the city, and capture it permamently in the Comprehensive Plan.  Then we could make appropriate changes to the zoning ordinances to carry out that plan.  That's just one piece of the puzzle, but it would be huge for Tulsa.

I think the topic of planning is frustrating to people because there's no instant gratification.  You don't pull out a credit card and walk home with a toy.  You have to think about 10 or 20 years in the future, and imagine the city you want us to have.  More gruelling than glamorous.

Portland, OR is a great town today because of choices they started making in the late 70's.  When I lived in Colorado in the early 90's, big chunks of downtown Denver were incredibly scary(bars on the windows, drug deals on the streets, decrepid vacant buildings), now every inch of downtown has been transformed.  But it took 15 years...and, oh yeah, a lot of planning and big ideas to make it happen.

I'm personally totally excited about the Comp Plan update.  To paraphrase a line from "The Matrix:" We are only limited by our belief in our own limitations.  

I want Tulsa to be better than that.

quote:

---

Originally posted by cks511

Vision 2038...

*low water dams
*arena maintenance
*westbank development
*arena maintenance
*thousands of jobs
*arena maintenance
*water in the river
*arena maintenance
*drillers

......okay nevermind. I'm done.

---

[:D]

quote:

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These kinds of meetings help a lot to educate citizens about the process and how to get involved.  

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They also encourage buy-in and best of all ownership (especially when citizens' ideas are integrated into the process), which means these plans actually stand a chance of becoming reality.

I say we start planning 30 years ahead the same way American society did in the 1960s-

*People on Mars
*Hotels on the Moon
*Computers with human personalities, including a full range of emotions
*Flying cars
*Giant skyscrapers that comprise entire cities....

quote:

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Originally posted by PonderInc

Here's another way to think about the Comp Plan, and how it applies to shaping Tulsa's future: Instead of having to go to the TMAPC or BOA or City Council to fight for what's right week after week, issue by issue...we could come up with a sound plan for the city, and capture it permamently in the Comprehensive Plan.  Then we could make appropriate changes to the zoning ordinances to carry out that plan.  That's just one piece of the puzzle, but it would be huge for Tulsa.

I think the topic of planning is frustrating to people because there's no instant gratification.  You don't pull out a credit card and walk home with a toy.  You have to think about 10 or 20 years in the future, and imagine the city you want us to have.  More gruelling than glamorous.

Portland, OR is a great town today because of choices they started making in the late 70's.  When I lived in Colorado in the early 90's, big chunks of downtown Denver were incredibly scary(bars on the windows, drug deals on the streets, decrepid vacant buildings), now every inch of downtown has been transformed.  But it took 15 years...and, oh yeah, a lot of planning and big ideas to make it happen.

I'm personally totally excited about the Comp Plan update.  To paraphrase a line from "The Matrix:" We are only limited by our belief in our own limitations.  

I want Tulsa to be better than that.

---

I am cautiously optimistic about the comp plan update, but I can't help worrying about this process getting co-opted, corrupted and outright  plan-jacked by the regional establishment special interests, while the public input and participation in the process is not sought, or if it is it is simply ignored. I hope the local media promotes this meeting as the tremendous, long term opportunity it is to improve Tulsa for all Tulsans and strongly emphasizes how important the comprehensive plan update really can be in the daily life of an average Tulsan encouraging them to participate. I dread that this process will become like the "visioning" to include public participation(mostly as a formality) in the process to plan and prioritize for Vision 2025 where the public vision became blurred, after being filtered through the lens of the regional establishment special interests.   That is not in Tulsa's best interest, and I want Tulsa to be better, too. I want our Comp plan to be inclusive and most importantly of, by and for all Tulsans. We've got one shot to get this right, the consequences of getting it wrong are serious and long term. PPPPPPR. Contrary to what some may think, I do care about Tulsa.

On a serious note:

*water in the river
*passenger ferries on the river (maybe Waterboy's Oktoberfest-style)
*an in-ground trolley line that runs parallel to Riverside Dr.
*an in-ground trolley line that connects the arena, Brady dist, Blue Dome, East End, Uptown, Greenwood/OSU Tulsa, TU, Cherry St., Brookside, and goes across the river at the newly restored art deco 11th St. bridge
*high level of consumer awareness for all the aforementioned districts, by residents of the entire metro area
*baseball stadium in East End
*soccer stadium in Jenks with a MLS team
*many people living Downtown, and all aforementioned districts
*OSU-Tulsa is an independent comprehensive university with student housing and an athletic
dept.

More to come.

Water in the river???  There's more than enough there now...

[}:)]

Somebody want to explain exactly what a Comprehensive Plan is?  Or, tell us what it isn't?

quote:

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Originally posted by Floyd

Somebody want to explain exactly what a Comprehensive Plan is?  Or, tell us what it isn't?

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It's the overriding policy document for the city of Tulsa. It shapes a vision and direction for the city over the next decade or more. There are many facets to it -- transportation, economic development, land use, housing, social services, community and neighborhoods, amenities, etc.

Everything related to city government should flow from the Comprehensive Plan. For example, the zoning code is intended to be the rulebook shaping the city in the image of the Comp Plan. The language in the zoning code even reads "to achieve the objectives of the Comprehensive Plan." Capital improvements (infrastructure, public transport, etc) should be funded and prioritized based on the objectives of the comp plan. Economic development strategies, social service strategies, etc. should be developed to achieve the goals of the comp plan.

In short, the comp plan defines the desired destination for the community. The zoning code, capital improvements, neighborhood plans, etc. form the road map with detailed directions to get us to that destination.

^

Don't mean to be disrespectful Joe.... Your post contains some of the key issues I have with any comprehensive plan....

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the zoning code is intended




should be developed to achieve the goals of the comp plan.




should be funded and prioritized based on the objectives of the comp plan.



should flow from the Comprehensive Plan.

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These are just the sort of issues that make a living for Charles Norman and others.

The plans; seem to be bent and become something entirely different than when they were born.

mho.... the animation and movement of the tastes and desires of the affluent of a City... become the status quo. and therefore the footprint of an area.

solution= ?

quote:

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Originally posted by Rico


^

Don't mean to be disrespectful Joe.... Your post contains some of the key issues I have with any comprehensive plan....

---

the zoning code is intended




should be developed to achieve the goals of the comp plan.




should be funded and prioritized based on the objectives of the comp plan.



should flow from the Comprehensive Plan.

---

These are just the sort of issues that make a living for Charles Norman and others.

The plans; seem to be bent and become something entirely different than when they were born.

mho.... the animation and movement of the tastes and desires of the affluent of a City... become the status quo. and therefore the footprint of an area.

solution= ?

---

Solution?  Why a solution to that? Sounds GREAT![8D]

quote:

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Originally posted by Rico


^

Don't mean to be disrespectful Joe.... Your post contains some of the key issues I have with any comprehensive plan....

---

the zoning code is intended




should be developed to achieve the goals of the comp plan.




should be funded and prioritized based on the objectives of the comp plan.



should flow from the Comprehensive Plan.

---

These are just the sort of issues that make a living for Charles Norman and others.

The plans; seem to be bent and become something entirely different than when they were born.

mho.... the animation and movement of the tastes and desires of the affluent of a City... become the status quo. and therefore the footprint of an area.

solution= ?

---

You have accurately and keenly summed up one the most important aspects of any Comprehensive Planning effort -- the political will to stick to the plan and not deviate based on which way the wind blows. Once the community has expressed their will and their desires for the future of the city, it is incumbent upon the community to hold the city leadership's feet to the fire and insist they implement the plan.

The good news is that the very fact we're going through this process for the first time in over 30 years means the political will is strong in City Hall. Frankly, that was the easiest way to deviate from the old plan -- not update it for more than a generation. That status quo is out the window.

But I can't stress enough -- this is the community's plan. The public HAS to take ownership of both the development of the plan and the implementation of the plan. Communities who do that see results.

quote:

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Originally posted by AVERAGE JOE

quote:

---

Originally posted by Rico


^

Don't mean to be disrespectful Joe.... Your post contains some of the key issues I have with any comprehensive plan....

---

the zoning code is intended




should be developed to achieve the goals of the comp plan.




should be funded and prioritized based on the objectives of the comp plan.



should flow from the Comprehensive Plan.

---

These are just the sort of issues that make a living for Charles Norman and others.

The plans; seem to be bent and become something entirely different than when they were born.

mho.... the animation and movement of the tastes and desires of the affluent of a City... become the status quo. and therefore the footprint of an area.

solution= ?

---

You have accurately and keenly summed up one the most important aspects of any Comprehensive Planning effort -- the political will to stick to the plan and not deviate based on which way the wind blows. Once the community has expressed their will and their desires for the future of the city, it is incumbent upon the community to hold the city leadership's feet to the fire and insist they implement the plan.

The good news is that the very fact we're going through this process for the first time in over 30 years means the political will is strong in City Hall. Frankly, that was the easiest way to deviate from the old plan -- not update it for more than a generation. That status quo is out the window.

But I can't stress enough -- this is the community's plan. The public HAS to take ownership of both the development of the plan and the implementation of the plan. Communities who do that see results.

---

^
"+ +"
 

Good Answer.

I'm going. I hope to impress upon the planners the need to think "green" when planning our future.

I want special emphasis place on density and walkability. I want them to consider the tree canopy and how to expand it, even when doing new construction. There are formulas on cost/benefit of trees and I think Tulsa has as much investment in trees as it has in some aspects of infrastructure.

I want LEED standards on all new government funded buildings and similar standards on new construction whenever possible.

I hope to speak tomorrow, but if not, plan to put my comments in writing as well.

quote:

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Originally posted by RecycleMichael

I'm going. I hope to impress upon the planners the need to think "green" when planning our future.

I want special emphasis place on density and walkability. I want them to consider the tree canopy and how to expand it, even when doing new construction. There are formulas on cost/benefit of trees and I think Tulsa has as much investment in trees as it has in some aspects of infrastructure.

I want LEED standards on all new government funded buildings and similar standards on new construction whenever possible.

I hope to speak tomorrow, but if not, plan to put my comments in writing as well.

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I would support all those things in a new Comp plan.

What a turnout for the kickoff! I saw everybody (except for the fire marshall who would have had problems with that many people in the room). I counted 211 people at one time.

Every city councilor was there. Almost the entire Mayor's office was there. Most of the workers in the city planning department and INCOG were there. The presidents of the Metro Chamber, The Greenwood Chamber and the Hispanic Chamber were there. Two of the three county commissioners were there (odd that Randi Miller was not).

Most importantly, I counted 19 TulsaNow posters there.

Great presentation by John Fregonese!  How do we get a copy of it?

quote:

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Originally posted by RecycleMichael

What a turnout for the kickoff! I saw everybody (except for the fire marshall who would have had problems with that many people in the room). I counted 211 people at one time.

Every city councilor was there. Almost the entire Mayor's office was there. Most of the workers in the city planning department and INCOG were there. The presidents of the Metro Chamber, The Greenwood Chamber and the Hispanic Chamber were there. Two of the three county commissioners were there (odd that Randi Miller was not).

Most importantly, I counted 19 TulsaNow posters there.

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Several neighborhood leaders were present and accounted. Preserve Midtown; at least 6 of the TMAPC board; Historic Preservation; COHN; Stop the Chop; variety of activists; Commissioner Miller was in Sand Springs at a prior commitment and then hosted a Town Hall meeting at the Fair Grounds at 7 pm.

In addition - many, many builders were there. Think they got a little nervous.

Maybe those builders learned something!

Sooner or later they're going to have to adapt to the needs of a changing world, and a changing population. (And the sooner they do it, the better for them!)

I was talking to a real estate agent yesterday who offices downtown.  She says that she gets calls every day from people who want to live downtown.  They want lofts, they want apartments, they want condos.  She says that they end up living elsewhere b/c they can't find what they really want, which is downtown living.

She said that whenever she talks to local developers and builders, they don't have a clue.  They don't understand the value of building downtown, and they don't want to even talk about it. (Presumably, it doesn't fit with their highly ingrained template for making a quick buck.)

This is fine with me, b/c the last thing we need downtown is cookie-cutter crapola that defines modern homebuilding.  We need real developers with real designs and real vision.  We're getting them --slowly, but surely-- in and near downtown.  Jamie Jameson's Village at Central Park, the Philtower Lofts, Sager's lofts that are going up in the old "Finales" restaurant building, the Mayo Hotel, Micha Alexander's projects at 3rd and Kenosha...

These are just a few examples.  I've heard that these projects are occupied as soon as they are built. So it won't be long before more people catch on.  Developers from across the country are eyeing downtown Tulsa.  And the NTHP has been working with local preservationists to educate developers about the many financial incentives available to restore old buildings.

I'm excited about the timing of the Comp Plan update...and the possibilities and opportunities for Tulsa.  And I encourage everyone to get involved in PLANiTULSA and make your voices heard!