I've been seeing more and more stories of countries around the world doing this. Seems like something we should get behind as well.
Apparently there was a story on Fox 23 last night, I missed it because I wasin the back yard playing soccer with the dog, that California is looking to impose a tax on plastic shopping bags. I suppose that would work as well, but I would rather see a total ban of the damn things.
I went to home depot yesterday because they were giving away "eco friendly tote bags" to carry your purchases home in and had a good price on compact fluorescents. I rang up only to find that home depot had only sent a handful of bags and ended up on the way home with a plastic bag anyway.
A tax would provide some motivation and maybe keep the cheerleaders from using a new bag for every second or third item. I don't know how you could track it or enforce it, however. Stores could be more conscious, however, and charge customers per bag or give discounts for self-bagging. Stores could also offer paper bags as an alternative.
From what my wife said the story on the news last night seemed to indicate that the stores would be responsible for collecting the tax on the bags. 15 cents per bag is what I believe she said the charge would be.
I would honestly like to seem then banned entirely.
Wal-mart will sell you one for a buck.
Tax 'em and use the money to fund litter pickup on our roadways. Those things are EVERYWHERE.
The segment on the news indicated that there weren't many great alternatives as the paper bags are more expensive and use more energy to produce.
quote:
Originally posted by TulsaSooner
Tax 'em and use the money to fund litter pickup on our roadways. Those things are EVERYWHERE.
The segment on the news indicated that there weren't many great alternatives as the paper bags are more expensive and use more energy to produce.
Self bagging is good. Also, the current newsweek allows you to turn the cover into a shipping envelope, stuff it full of target plastic bags and mail it to them, they will send you a coupon for a tote bag made of target sacks.
oh yeah more taxes..... exactely what the poor people need ....
honestly, when are you people going to learn that you don't solve problems with taxes!
quote:
Originally posted by Cubs
oh yeah more taxes..... exactely what the poor people need ....
honestly, when are you people going to learn that you don't solve problems with taxes!
We all know the poor can't feed their children without plastic shopping bags..
Seriously,pancakes?
I think a plastic bag stuck on a barb wire fence is the new Oklahoma state flag.
At least with the plastic bags, I may get a tear occassionally, but it is almost always guaranteed with the paper...
Seriously, it doesn't matter which store I'm at, the paper sacks always rip apart on my way from the store to my car, or from my car to my house.
quote:
Originally posted by TURobY
At least with the plastic bags, I may get a tear occassionally, but it is almost always guaranteed with the paper...
Seriously, it doesn't matter which store I'm at, the paper sacks always rip apart on my way from the store to my car, or from my car to my house.
I have the opposite problem.
You should quit buying so much barbed wire.
I would analyze it from a use standpoint. The amount of material in a plastic shopping bag is minimal. A few grams of polyethylene resin yields hundreds of individual bags.
Some are made of polylactic acid that breaks down to nothing in a landfill, and once again, one gram yields hundreds of bags.
Additionally they take less energy to produce than paper bags. They are lighter and less bulky which makes them cheeper to transport, ship and recycle.
Wouldn't it make more sense to promote the recycling of plastic shopping bags, or the use of biodegradable plastics?
Paper bags represent a significant decrease in efficiency that has more environmental impact than is being considered.
I did the research:
The manufacturer (ULINE) rates 500 paper bags at 58lbs.
v.s 1,000 plastic grocery bags at only 5lbs.
So. . . it would require 2,320% more fuel to transport the same number of paper bags to Walmart as it does to transport plastic. That's not even accounting for mass witch would probably increase that statistic significantly!
quote:
Originally posted by sgrizzle
quote:
Originally posted by TURobY
At least with the plastic bags, I may get a tear occassionally, but it is almost always guaranteed with the paper...
Seriously, it doesn't matter which store I'm at, the paper sacks always rip apart on my way from the store to my car, or from my car to my house.
I have the opposite problem.
You should quit buying so much barbed wire.
I never have a problem with the paper sacks either. I keep them and then recycle them to a second hand store that is charity run. Helps with their over head expenses.
quote:
Originally posted by Gaspar
I would analyze it from a use standpoint. The amount of material in a plastic shopping bag is minimal. A few grams of polyethylene resin yields hundreds of individual bags.
Some are made of polylactic acid that breaks down to nothing in a landfill, and once again, one gram yields hundreds of bags.
Additionally they take less energy to produce than paper bags. They are lighter and less bulky which makes them cheeper to transport, ship and recycle.
Wouldn't it make more sense to promote the recycling of plastic shopping bags, or the use of biodegradable plastics?
Paper bags represent a significant decrease in efficiency that has more environmental impact than is being considered.
I did the research:
The manufacturer (ULINE) rates 500 paper bags at 58lbs.
v.s 1,000 plastic grocery bags at only 5lbs.
So. . . it would require 2,320% more fuel to transport the same number of paper bags to Walmart as it does to transport plastic. That's not even accounting for mass witch would probably increase that statistic significantly!
Did you figure in the cost to compost the paper bag which can be returned to the earth vs the cost to continue to fill land fills and will not compost to earth in our lifetime? Looking at nothing but the bottom line is one of the reasons the environment is in the shape it is today.
quote:
Originally posted by sgrizzle
quote:
Originally posted by TulsaSooner
Tax 'em and use the money to fund litter pickup on our roadways. Those things are EVERYWHERE.
The segment on the news indicated that there weren't many great alternatives as the paper bags are more expensive and use more energy to produce.
Self bagging is good. Also, the current newsweek allows you to turn the cover into a shipping envelope, stuff it full of target plastic bags and mail it to them, they will send you a coupon for a tote bag made of target sacks.
I will do this. And the Newsweek magazine will be recycled to a nursing home for the residents.
quote:
Originally posted by joiei
quote:
Originally posted by Gaspar
I would analyze it from a use standpoint. The amount of material in a plastic shopping bag is minimal. A few grams of polyethylene resin yields hundreds of individual bags.
Some are made of polylactic acid that breaks down to nothing in a landfill, and once again, one gram yields hundreds of bags.
Additionally they take less energy to produce than paper bags. They are lighter and less bulky which makes them cheeper to transport, ship and recycle.
Wouldn't it make more sense to promote the recycling of plastic shopping bags, or the use of biodegradable plastics?
Paper bags represent a significant decrease in efficiency that has more environmental impact than is being considered.
I did the research:
The manufacturer (ULINE) rates 500 paper bags at 58lbs.
v.s 1,000 plastic grocery bags at only 5lbs.
So. . . it would require 2,320% more fuel to transport the same number of paper bags to Walmart as it does to transport plastic. That's not even accounting for mass witch would probably increase that statistic significantly!
Did you figure in the cost to compost the paper bag which can be returned to the earth vs the cost to continue to fill land fills and will not compost to earth in our lifetime? Looking at nothing but the bottom line is one of the reasons the environment is in the shape it is today.
Actually I did but I was waiting to mention it. The EPA estimates that only between 1% a of plastic grocery bags are recycled. Because of their low density and compacted mass, the transportation and recycling energy necessary is extremely low. One ton of recycled plastic bags saves 11 barrels of oil (EPA publication "paper or plastic").
The EPA also states that plastic bags create 80% less solid waste than paper bags.
So, again, I would be more in favor of a recycling program or the adoption of biodegradable plastics (corn starch or polylactic) rather than a ban that would cause economic burden, increase fuel consumption, cause inconvenience, increase food cost. . .and do more harm than good.
If it's landfill that you are worried about, plastic is actually far more sound than paper. 80% space reduction.
If it's biodegradability you are worried about, bioplastics are far more sound than paper.
Either way, paper grocery bags are a far greater enemy to the environment than plastic.
This past weekend I drove from Tulsa to San Angelo, Tx. All along the drive I saw many many plastic bags snagged in fences, in brush, in trees. I do not remember seeing any paper bags hanging in shreds from the barbed wire fence lines.
I am not going to argue with your facts, I just wish you lots of luck getting people to recycle the darn things.
When the baggers at the grocery stores use paper, they tend to put much more in one bag than when using the plastic t-shirt style bags. So many times, I have seen them put one thing in a bag then go to the next bag. When I come from Reasor's, I will have 3 bags, when I come from Target or Walmart, I will have at least 8 or 9 for the same amount of groceries. Tends to cheapen the savings, at least in my way of looking at things.
quote:
Originally posted by joiei
This past weekend I drove from Tulsa to San Angelo, Tx. All along the drive I saw many many plastic bags snagged in fences, in brush, in trees. I do not remember seeing any paper bags hanging in shreds from the barbed wire fence lines.
I am not going to argue with your facts, I just wish you lots of luck getting people to recycle the darn things.
When the baggers at the grocery stores use paper, they tend to put much more in one bag than when using the plastic t-shirt style bags. So many times, I have seen them put one thing in a bag then go to the next bag. When I come from Reasor's, I will have 3 bags, when I come from Target or Walmart, I will have at least 8 or 9 for the same amount of groceries. Tends to cheapen the savings, at least in my way of looking at things.
Can't argue with that! The art of bagging is dead. When I was a kid I used to work at Petty's after school bagging groceries. We had competitions for the most efficient use of space in a bag and prided ourselves on producing the exact same weight in every bag for our customers.
We got healthy tips depending on how impressed our regulars were with our bagging technique. We would actually commit to memory how different customers wanted their groceries bagged.
I figured out one way to recycle the plastic bags, I use them for the first layer of wrapping when I sell things on eBay. [8D]
If we could just train everyone to bring their own bags like some of these - http://www.reusablebags.com/store/recycled-bags-c-38.html - then maybe we could do away with the plastic t-shirt bags or maybe charge like 50 cents each. At that price I would remember to bring my own bags after a couple of times. Especially if it is adding $4 or $5 dollars to a shopping trip. And charge for the paper ones also.
quote:
Originally posted by joiei
If we could just train everyone to bring their own bags like some of these - http://www.reusablebags.com/store/recycled-bags-c-38.html - then maybe we could do away with the plastic t-shirt bags or maybe charge like 50 cents each. At that price I would remember to bring my own bags after a couple of times. Especially if it is adding $4 or $5 dollars to a shopping trip. And charge for the paper ones also.
Thanks to your link I just bought a set of these!
http://www.reusablebags.com/store/heavy-duty-hemp-grocery-p-82.html# (//%22http://www.reusablebags.com/store/heavy-duty-hemp-grocery-p-82.html#%22)
I used to ride my bike to the store all the time. I would tell the clerks that I didn't want any bags b/c I had a backpack and I was on my bike. They'd just keep filling up plastic bags. I'd take the bags over to a bench, empty everything out of the plastic bags, and pack the items directly into my backpack. Then, I'd stuff the plastic bags directly into the recycle bin on my way out the door.
(Occasionally it was good to have an extra plastic bag...sometimes, I'd buy too much and needed to tie a loaf of bread or something onto the outside of my pack!)
Another friend takes canvas shopping bags so she doesn't get the plastic bags. Apparently, clerks don't understand the concept. They always want to load the groceries into plastic bags and hand them to her to put in her canvas tote bags!
I saw someone using reusable bags yesterday at the Neighborhood Market and I kinda felt guilty that I wasn't. So I bought these (//%22http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220227015104%22) on eBay today.
Plastic bags are great for picking up Dogsh*t....Especially on a walk in the neighborhod....Inside out palm the turd right side out tie it up and if it's the right night you don't have to go far to dispose of it....
quote:
Originally posted by Breadburner
Plastic bags are great for picking up Dogsh*t....Especially on a walk in the neighborhod....Inside out palm the turd right side out tie it up and if it's the right night you don't have to go far to dispose of it....
I see people using tulsa world paper bags for that.