We recently moved into a new subdivision in Jenks that has a homeowners assocation. I was out doing yardwork yesterday afternoon and finally met a few of my neighbors. They mentioned online they read about different things you could and could not do. For the life of me I can't find where you would find that information out.
Anyone have any ideas? I have searched yahoo and google, but didn't know if there was a specific website for associations in the Tulsa area or not. The addition is called Southwoods if anyone knows.
Thanks
This page lists one in Bixby:
http://www.greatertulsarealty.com/Neighborhood_Associations/page_1818574.html
...but you have to remember, neighborhood associations are the spawn of the devil.
Neighborhood associations in Tulsa seem to fall into two groups: those that are very code-enforcement/appearance and safety related, and those that are more social organizations. I live in the latter.
Neighborhoods may have restrictive covenants, but these normally apply only in civil matters where a violation may spark a lawsuit amongst property owners. The ultimate authority is the City government and municipal code enforcement, and restrictions "hard-wired" into your property deed. Neighborhood associations may have guidelines and wishes, but they do not carry the force of law. Only city ordinances do that.
quote:
Originally posted by Steve
Neighborhood associations in Tulsa seem to fall into two groups: those that are very code-enforcement/appearance and safety related, and those that are more social organizations. I live in the latter.
Neighborhoods may have restrictive covenants, but these normally apply only in civil matters where a violation may spark a lawsuit amongst property owners. The ultimate authority is the City government and municipal code enforcement, and restrictions "hard-wired" into your property deed. Neighborhood associations may have guidelines and wishes, but they do not carry the force of law. Only city ordinances do that.
uh well no actually you are wrong. the HOA rules are part of the restrictive covenants, which you agree to when you buy your house in said HOA. failure to observe those restrictive covenants results in a lien on your house.
dont pay your HOA dues or put some gaudy lawn ornament in your front yard and find out real fast what you can and cannot do.
quote:
Originally posted by Ed W
This page lists one in Bixby:
http://www.greatertulsarealty.com/Neighborhood_Associations/page_1818574.html
...but you have to remember, neighborhood associations are the spawn of the devil.
if having your neighbors abide by certain rules to keep your home's value intact is a spawn of the deveil, then I'll gladly live in hell. enjoy wallowing in your heavenly bliss of a turd neighborhood with your neighbors yard art and couch on the front porch....you'll see the light when you try to sell your house.
quote:
Originally posted by inteller
quote:
Originally posted by Steve
Neighborhood associations in Tulsa seem to fall into two groups: those that are very code-enforcement/appearance and safety related, and those that are more social organizations. I live in the latter.
Neighborhoods may have restrictive covenants, but these normally apply only in civil matters where a violation may spark a lawsuit amongst property owners. The ultimate authority is the City government and municipal code enforcement, and restrictions "hard-wired" into your property deed. Neighborhood associations may have guidelines and wishes, but they do not carry the force of law. Only city ordinances do that.
uh well no actually you are wrong. the HOA rules are part of the restrictive covenants, which you agree to when you buy your house in said HOA. failure to observe those restrictive covenants results in a lien on your house.
dont pay your HOA dues or put some gaudy lawn ornament in your front yard and find out real fast what you can and cannot do.
While true, most HOA don't have the guts to enforce their own rules, so many covenants aren't worth much if no one enforces them.
Look around and see how many homes in a neighborhood have wood roofs and composite roofs. If it's about half and half, you live in a neighborhood where they don't enforcement their own covenants.
quote:
Originally posted by inteller
quote:
Originally posted by Steve
Neighborhood associations in Tulsa seem to fall into two groups: those that are very code-enforcement/appearance and safety related, and those that are more social organizations. I live in the latter.
Neighborhoods may have restrictive covenants, but these normally apply only in civil matters where a violation may spark a lawsuit amongst property owners. The ultimate authority is the City government and municipal code enforcement, and restrictions "hard-wired" into your property deed. Neighborhood associations may have guidelines and wishes, but they do not carry the force of law. Only city ordinances do that.
uh well no actually you are wrong. the HOA rules are part of the restrictive covenants, which you agree to when you buy your house in said HOA. failure to observe those restrictive covenants results in a lien on your house.
dont pay your HOA dues or put some gaudy lawn ornament in your front yard and find out real fast what you can and cannot do.
It really depends upon your particular covenant, since each is unique. I think what Steve means is that, unlike violations in the zoning code, violations in your convenant will not result in neighborhood inspections (or any government entity) coming out and fining you. In order to enforce covenants, private citizens (via their neighborhood associations) have to bring lawsuits. If the neighborhood doesn't do anything, the covenant can be violated with no consequences (and subsequent violations will probably be unenforcable as well). A convenant is no more than a private contract between homeowners that is only enforcable in so much as the homeowners have the money to pay a lawyer.
quote:
Originally posted by inteller
quote:
Originally posted by Steve
Neighborhood associations in Tulsa seem to fall into two groups: those that are very code-enforcement/appearance and safety related, and those that are more social organizations. I live in the latter.
Neighborhoods may have restrictive covenants, but these normally apply only in civil matters where a violation may spark a lawsuit amongst property owners. The ultimate authority is the City government and municipal code enforcement, and restrictions "hard-wired" into your property deed. Neighborhood associations may have guidelines and wishes, but they do not carry the force of law. Only city ordinances do that.
uh well no actually you are wrong. the HOA rules are part of the restrictive covenants, which you agree to when you buy your house in said HOA. failure to observe those restrictive covenants results in a lien on your house.
dont pay your HOA dues or put some gaudy lawn ornament in your front yard and find out real fast what you can and cannot do.
I was only responding to this from my own experience. The neighborhood assn. in Lortondale, my own Tulsa subdivision, is strictly voluntary, and dues payments are likewise voluntary. Payment of dues entitles a household to a vote in Association matters, but one can still express their opinions regardless. We have about 9 restrictive covenants in Lortondale that have never been modified and are still in effect. None of these is in regard to a homeowner's association. Every Tulsa subdivision is different, and I would encourage all Tulsa residents to research their own neighborhood covenants and provisions.
quote:
Originally posted by pmcalk
quote:
Originally posted by inteller
quote:
Originally posted by Steve
Neighborhood associations in Tulsa seem to fall into two groups: those that are very code-enforcement/appearance and safety related, and those that are more social organizations. I live in the latter.
Neighborhoods may have restrictive covenants, but these normally apply only in civil matters where a violation may spark a lawsuit amongst property owners. The ultimate authority is the City government and municipal code enforcement, and restrictions "hard-wired" into your property deed. Neighborhood associations may have guidelines and wishes, but they do not carry the force of law. Only city ordinances do that.
uh well no actually you are wrong. the HOA rules are part of the restrictive covenants, which you agree to when you buy your house in said HOA. failure to observe those restrictive covenants results in a lien on your house.
dont pay your HOA dues or put some gaudy lawn ornament in your front yard and find out real fast what you can and cannot do.
It really depends upon your particular covenant, since each is unique. I think what Steve means is that, unlike violations in the zoning code, violations in your convenant will not result in neighborhood inspections (or any government entity) coming out and fining you. In order to enforce covenants, private citizens (via their neighborhood associations) have to bring lawsuits. If the neighborhood doesn't do anything, the covenant can be violated with no consequences (and subsequent violations will probably be unenforcable as well). A convenant is no more than a private contract between homeowners that is only enforcable in so much as the homeowners have the money to pay a lawyer.
You got it, pmcalk. Exactly. Neighborhood restrictive covenants only provide ammo in the case of a civil lawsuit. The deed to my property includes restrictive covenants that were in force from 12-31-53 until 12-31-78, and the deed provides that the covenants are automatically renewed every 5 years, until modified by a vote of the majority of the property owners in my Lortondale subdivision. None of the original covenants in Lortondale has ever been modified by a vote of the owners to my knowledge, so I assume all covenents are still intact, unmodified from the original.
quote:
Originally posted by inteller
if having your neighbors abide by certain rules to keep your home's value intact is a spawn of the deveil, then I'll gladly live in hell. enjoy wallowing in your heavenly bliss of a turd neighborhood with your neighbors yard art and couch on the front porch....you'll see the light when you try to sell your house.
Allow me to re-phrase this for the sarcasm challenged.
My sister lived in a subdivision outside of Atlanta that dictated the color of her house, the length of her grass, and what shrubs were acceptable in her front yard. The neighborhood busybodies actually came onto her lawn to measure the grass from time to time.
When we were looking at houses, I refused to consider any with restrictive covenants. I'm an amateur radio operator. For some reason, a simple antenna in the back yard sets off the busybodies just as much as a bunch of pink flamingos in the front yard.
Where do you live, Inteller? My flamingos have been known to migrate.
quote:
Originally posted by Steve
quote:
Originally posted by pmcalk
quote:
Originally posted by inteller
quote:
Originally posted by Steve
Neighborhood associations in Tulsa seem to fall into two groups: those that are very code-enforcement/appearance and safety related, and those that are more social organizations. I live in the latter.
Neighborhoods may have restrictive covenants, but these normally apply only in civil matters where a violation may spark a lawsuit amongst property owners. The ultimate authority is the City government and municipal code enforcement, and restrictions "hard-wired" into your property deed. Neighborhood associations may have guidelines and wishes, but they do not carry the force of law. Only city ordinances do that.
uh well no actually you are wrong. the HOA rules are part of the restrictive covenants, which you agree to when you buy your house in said HOA. failure to observe those restrictive covenants results in a lien on your house.
dont pay your HOA dues or put some gaudy lawn ornament in your front yard and find out real fast what you can and cannot do.
It really depends upon your particular covenant, since each is unique. I think what Steve means is that, unlike violations in the zoning code, violations in your convenant will not result in neighborhood inspections (or any government entity) coming out and fining you. In order to enforce covenants, private citizens (via their neighborhood associations) have to bring lawsuits. If the neighborhood doesn't do anything, the covenant can be violated with no consequences (and subsequent violations will probably be unenforcable as well). A convenant is no more than a private contract between homeowners that is only enforcable in so much as the homeowners have the money to pay a lawyer.
You got it, pmcalk. Exactly. Neighborhood restrictive covenants only provide ammo in the case of a civil lawsuit. The deed to my property includes restrictive covenants that were in force from 12-31-53 until 12-31-78, and the deed provides that the covenants are automatically renewed every 5 years, until modified by a vote of the majority of the property owners in my Lortondale subdivision. None of the original covenants in Lortondale has ever been modified by a vote of the owners to my knowledge, so I assume all covenents are still intact, unmodified from the original.
The original 12-31-53 covenants for my subdivision (Lortondale) only address basic activities regaring building and fencing setbacks, employment and housing of domestic servants, and prohibit livestock and fowl on the properties. Strange, recently I heard a rooster crowing at dawn on the property behind me. The keeping of chickens and roosters is prohibited by my neighborhood covenants, but some of my neighbors do not seem to be aware of that.
You should have received the covenant/HOA rules when you bought your house. You also should have paid at least a portion of the HOA dues at the closing.
I would contact your realtor to see if they can assist with locating the rules. If you built your house then you can contact the builder and they may be able to tell you.
if you didn't check into this before your bought your house, you are SOL now.
quote:
Originally posted by Steve
quote:
Originally posted by inteller
quote:
Originally posted by Steve
Neighborhood associations in Tulsa seem to fall into two groups: those that are very code-enforcement/appearance and safety related, and those that are more social organizations. I live in the latter.
Neighborhoods may have restrictive covenants, but these normally apply only in civil matters where a violation may spark a lawsuit amongst property owners. The ultimate authority is the City government and municipal code enforcement, and restrictions "hard-wired" into your property deed. Neighborhood associations may have guidelines and wishes, but they do not carry the force of law. Only city ordinances do that.
uh well no actually you are wrong. the HOA rules are part of the restrictive covenants, which you agree to when you buy your house in said HOA. failure to observe those restrictive covenants results in a lien on your house.
dont pay your HOA dues or put some gaudy lawn ornament in your front yard and find out real fast what you can and cannot do.
I was only responding to this from my own experience. The neighborhood assn. in Lortondale, my own Tulsa subdivision, is strictly voluntary, and dues payments are likewise voluntary. Payment of dues entitles a household to a vote in Association matters, but one can still express their opinions regardless. We have about 9 restrictive covenants in Lortondale that have never been modified and are still in effect. None of these is in regard to a homeowner's association. Every Tulsa subdivision is different, and I would encourage all Tulsa residents to research their own neighborhood covenants and provisions.
that is because Lortondale never started out with a HOA with covenants tied to the deed. In order to have an HOA with teeth they must exist from the get go. What you speak of is just a paper tiger....more of a preservation society than anything.
quote:
Originally posted by inteller
quote:
Originally posted by Steve
quote:
Originally posted by inteller
quote:
Originally posted by Steve
Neighborhood associations in Tulsa seem to fall into two groups: those that are very code-enforcement/appearance and safety related, and those that are more social organizations. I live in the latter.
Neighborhoods may have restrictive covenants, but these normally apply only in civil matters where a violation may spark a lawsuit amongst property owners. The ultimate authority is the City government and municipal code enforcement, and restrictions "hard-wired" into your property deed. Neighborhood associations may have guidelines and wishes, but they do not carry the force of law. Only city ordinances do that.
uh well no actually you are wrong. the HOA rules are part of the restrictive covenants, which you agree to when you buy your house in said HOA. failure to observe those restrictive covenants results in a lien on your house.
dont pay your HOA dues or put some gaudy lawn ornament in your front yard and find out real fast what you can and cannot do.
I was only responding to this from my own experience. The neighborhood assn. in Lortondale, my own Tulsa subdivision, is strictly voluntary, and dues payments are likewise voluntary. Payment of dues entitles a household to a vote in Association matters, but one can still express their opinions regardless. We have about 9 restrictive covenants in Lortondale that have never been modified and are still in effect. None of these is in regard to a homeowner's association. Every Tulsa subdivision is different, and I would encourage all Tulsa residents to research their own neighborhood covenants and provisions.
that is because Lortondale never started out with a HOA with covenants tied to the deed. In order to have an HOA with teeth they must exist from the get go. What you speak of is just a paper tiger....more of a preservation society than anything.
You are so wrong. Lortondale had the first original HOA in Tulsa in 1954, the first of its kind in Tulsa, to opperate the neighborhood pool and common areas. The original Lortondale restrictive covenants are part of my property abstract, Lot 8, Block 3 of Lortondale. The original 1954 HOA fell into disfunction and became insolvent in the 1970s. I don't know about these legal matters, but on 12-31-53, the original plat of Lortondale was filed with the original restrictive covenants. To my knowledge, these covenants have never been modified or changed by vote of the landowners, so as far as I am concerned as a 2008 Lortondale owner and resident, these original covenants are still in force today.
quote:
Originally posted by Steve
The original 1954 HOA fell into disfunction and became insolvent in the 1970s. I don't know about these legal matters, but on 12-31-53, the original plat of Lortondale was filed with the original restrictive covenants. To my knowledge, these covenants have never been modified or changed by vote of the landowners, so as far as I am concerned as a 2008 Lortondale owner and resident, these original covenants are still in force today.
ok, that would have been my second guess. Either way, your current organization has no where near the teeth the original one did. and my comment still stands that your current org is really just more of a preservation society born out of a renewwed interest in 1950s architecture.
quote:
Originally posted by safetyguy
You should have received the covenant/HOA rules when you bought your house. You also should have paid at least a portion of the HOA dues at the closing.
I would contact your realtor to see if they can assist with locating the rules. If you built your house then you can contact the builder and they may be able to tell you.
We did pay the remaining portion of HOA dues at closing, and we did also receive the paperwork with all the rules, however while talking to my neighbors they were explaining figures for how much pool upkeep is, lawn maintanence, etc. I was just wanting to see those figures, and it wasn't in my paperwork when we closed.
Inteller, we were very aware of the HOA dues as there is a neighborhood pool, playgrounds, walking trails, and a catch/release pond to fish at. I was just wanting more information about the actual breakdown of where my 40 dollars a month was actually going. They were saying how pool maintanence is broken down into each month, but if the pool is covered during the winter, who are we paying a fee to maintain the pool?? just simple questions like that. Also 130,000 a year in landscaping costs is a little high in my opinion. I am sure a few of my neighbors and I could do it for alot less money!!
I am just trying to find out more tidbits like that, and the actual break down associated with each cost. Guess I will go ahead and contact the builder/ sales exec and see what they say.
well, HOAs are who keep these huge landscaping/mowing companies in business. If it were landscape maintenance for a place like Wind River I could easily see $130k a year. i dont agree with the costs either, but unless you band together a bunch of disgruntled neighbors and vote in yourselves a place at the table, you just keep paying the $40 a month.
I've noticed that the dues people pay on these newer HOAs is just ridiculous. Over at The Greens they pay $60 a month, and they don't have HALF the facilities of my neighborhood, which is only $350 a YEAR.
at this point the only thing you can do is go to the annual HOA meeting and be a dissenter on budget items that are way out of line. once you wake enough people up and get them on your side, there will be more efficient spending of the HOA budget.
quote:
Originally posted by inteller
quote:
Originally posted by Steve
The original 1954 HOA fell into disfunction and became insolvent in the 1970s. I don't know about these legal matters, but on 12-31-53, the original plat of Lortondale was filed with the original restrictive covenants. To my knowledge, these covenants have never been modified or changed by vote of the landowners, so as far as I am concerned as a 2008 Lortondale owner and resident, these original covenants are still in force today.
ok, that would have been my second guess. Either way, your current organization has no where near the teeth the original one did. and my comment still stands that your current org is really just more of a preservation society born out of a renewwed interest in 1950s architecture.
I can't argue that, because you are correct on that point.