I am constantly amazed at the overwhelming negativity of the populous of Tulsa about everything Tulsa.
Maybe I had a weird upbringing but I was taught to be proud of where I come from, to take pride in the good and help change the bad.
Sitting and whinnying and wanting everyone else to fix if for you just doesn't get the job done. Get off your butt and do something, even if thats just calling th mayors action line and calling in pot holes, writing your representatives and council people.
Better yet do research form plans get action in city hall meetings, be part of the solution. Do anything but spew hate for everything in and of Tulsa, if thats all you want to do, please do us all a favor and MOVE.
Maybe I am the only one seeing all his negativity and hate, I don't know but it is a sad sad thing indeed.
Negativity?
I'm against it.
I actually did call in, several times to the Mayor's action line, a line of potholes in my neighborhood that I'd gotten to know on a personal basis at about 7:15 AM and 5:15 PM on every weekday.
You know what eventually worked?
http://www.cityoftulsa.org/Reporting/Potholes.asp
I submitted the problem; it was fixed the next day. Don't know if that's coincidence, but I was rather happy. Not only did they fix the ones I indicated, they fixed every pothole from the main road down this residential. Granted fixing was just filling them with asphalt, at least they did something.
And if you want negativity, mosey on over to the Whirled website and read any of the articles regarding the BOK Center and their comments. Especially if you need a good laugh.
Yeah well the pot holes was just an example and I was just venting my annoyance at alol the nah saying do nothings out there.
Anywho I feel better, and truthfully I hate reading KOTV or any of the places here that have comments. The uneducated masses come out... kind of scary.
it's reality. get used to it.
quote:
Originally posted by inteller
it's reality. get used to it.
Being used to something is one thing, liking it is another.
quote:
Originally posted by inteller
it's reality. get used to it.
Slavery was a reality. Racism is still a reality. Shall we just get used to it?
Germany used to invade France every other decade, never got used to it.
Tulsa was shedding jobs like dog hair in the spring, good thing we didn't just get used to it.
People die a slow and painful death from cancer all too often. Disease rots the brains of loved ones. Children are sexual abused every day - just get used to it.
That's just a horrible attitude to have. Your world must be very sad if you "just get used to" such things. Nearly everything that is bad can be changed or at least addressed. At VERY least you could have a desire to see it changed, instead of just accepting it as it is.
quote:
Originally posted by godboko71
Yeah well the pot holes was just an example and I was just venting my annoyance at alol the nah saying do nothings out there.
Anywho I feel better, and truthfully I hate reading KOTV or any of the places here that have comments. The uneducated masses come out... kind of scary.
The negative commenters are not representative of Tulsans generally. I've noticed that in almost any forum, it's the complainers who are loudest. Those who are content have less reason to speak up. So you're getting an unrepresentative sample of the views of most Tulsans when you read comments on the Tulsa World or KOTV.
What is most interesting to me is the class resentment that bubbles up. There's a bogeyman called the "Midtown Elite" that is purported to be wholly self-interested and destructive for Tulsa. In the eyes of some, the invisible oligarchical forces in town want to suck everyone else dry to create exclusive playgrounds for the wealthy. It's a hilarious, but somewhat widespread meme. For whatever reason, Tulsa bloggers seem to push the idea: http://www.google.com/search?q=%22midtown+elite%22+tulsa&hl=en&filter=0
When I see that kind of thing, I always wonder about their motivations.
quote:
Originally posted by godboko71
I am constantly amazed at the overwhelming negativity of the populous of Tulsa about everything Tulsa.
Maybe I had a weird upbringing but I was taught to be proud of where I come from, to take pride in the good and help change the bad.
Sitting and whinnying and wanting everyone else to fix if for you just doesn't get the job done. Get off your butt and do something, even if thats just calling th mayors action line and calling in pot holes, writing your representatives and council people.
Better yet do research form plans get action in city hall meetings, be part of the solution. Do anything but spew hate for everything in and of Tulsa, if thats all you want to do, please do us all a favor and MOVE.
Maybe I am the only one seeing all his negativity and hate, I don't know but it is a sad sad thing indeed.
the overall attitude (generally speaking) is anything the major, tmapc, or city council does is wrong, stupid, etc etc. Once again, I said GENERALLY SPEAKING. There are some great people on these boards who have an overall sincere concern about Tulsa and do alot of things to help the city grow.
But you know as well as I do, anything/anyone in the public eye is going to receive criticism.
I think alot of the negative attitude on this board comes from inteller, I hate to call people out, but like I have previously stated, the man is nothing but negative about EVERYTHING he posts.
You negative bastards.....[;)]
quote:
Originally posted by Floyd
quote:
Originally posted by godboko71
Yeah well the pot holes was just an example and I was just venting my annoyance at alol the nah saying do nothings out there.
Anywho I feel better, and truthfully I hate reading KOTV or any of the places here that have comments. The uneducated masses come out... kind of scary.
The negative commenters are not representative of Tulsans generally. I've noticed that in almost any forum, it's the complainers who are loudest. Those who are content have less reason to speak up. So you're getting an unrepresentative sample of the views of most Tulsans when you read comments on the Tulsa World or KOTV.
What is most interesting to me is the class resentment that bubbles up. There's a bogeyman called the "Midtown Elite" that is purported to be wholly self-interested and destructive for Tulsa. In the eyes of some, the invisible oligarchical forces in town want to suck everyone else dry to create exclusive playgrounds for the wealthy. It's a hilarious, but somewhat widespread meme. For whatever reason, Tulsa bloggers seem to push the idea: http://www.google.com/search?q=%22midtown+elite%22+tulsa&hl=en&filter=0
When I see that kind of thing, I always wonder about their motivations.
if it weren't true, there wouldn't be talk about them. The most recent face to the nebulous midtown entity was the Channels and failed river vote. But really you don't need faces and names...the actions speak for themselves.
quote:
Originally posted by inteller
quote:
Originally posted by Floyd
quote:
Originally posted by godboko71
Yeah well the pot holes was just an example and I was just venting my annoyance at alol the nah saying do nothings out there.
Anywho I feel better, and truthfully I hate reading KOTV or any of the places here that have comments. The uneducated masses come out... kind of scary.
The negative commenters are not representative of Tulsans generally. I've noticed that in almost any forum, it's the complainers who are loudest. Those who are content have less reason to speak up. So you're getting an unrepresentative sample of the views of most Tulsans when you read comments on the Tulsa World or KOTV.
What is most interesting to me is the class resentment that bubbles up. There's a bogeyman called the "Midtown Elite" that is purported to be wholly self-interested and destructive for Tulsa. In the eyes of some, the invisible oligarchical forces in town want to suck everyone else dry to create exclusive playgrounds for the wealthy. It's a hilarious, but somewhat widespread meme. For whatever reason, Tulsa bloggers seem to push the idea: http://www.google.com/search?q=%22midtown+elite%22+tulsa&hl=en&filter=0
When I see that kind of thing, I always wonder about their motivations.
if it weren't true, there wouldn't be talk about them. The most recent face to the nebulous midtown entity was the Channels and failed river vote. But really you don't need faces and names...the actions speak for themselves.
Love that circular reasoning!
I think about this every time I attend a public meeting. I can come up with several theories, but realize that they all rely on generalizations.
1.) People are always louder when they're complaining than when they are content. You never hear a person with a bullhorn screaming to people walking by "I am so happy! Life is good! I have a great job, great friends, I'm in love and having lots of sex!"
2.) Fear is a bigger motivator than happiness...and most people are afraid of change. (Watch people at work when they know a layoff is coming. Or just come to a public meeting where some minor change to the zoning code will be made.) Even if what we have right now sucks, at least it's predictable and familiar. Change? Different and scary! (And some people/politicians cater to this fear, and promote a sense of unity through victimhood.)
3.) The more daring and adventurous people who were born in Tulsa tend to leave before they turn 21...in search of adventure, new opportunities, and kinship with others who think big. Since Tulsa doesn't exactly shout "daring and adventurous" (unless you're from Poteau), we have a net loss of risk-takers from our community. Thus, a lot of the people who like to "think outside the box" have already escaped the box we call home.
4.) Public meetings (and public forums!) attract wackos for the same reason AM talk radio attracts wackos. (Again, this is a generalization...) Most of the smart, rational, educated, professional people in town are too busy to sit around at public meetings listening to wackos and naysayers. They are turned off by the tenor of the debate, or they don't have time to attend in the first place. Or, they are simply "take action" people with no tolerance for whiners. The bad thing is that these are the people whose voices we most need to hear. Weighing in rationally and with educated opinions about things that matter to our community.
One thing that surprised me when I started on this forum was the anti-southside negativity. I know it can be retail hell now, but for someone who grew up in the Union/Southeast area long before LowesSupertargetHomeDepotetc...was built it was a place with it's own flavor. To hear of it here, some people assume others live here for the retail convenience/big box bonanza! Not true. Especially if that's where your roots are, ya know?
And I'm done...
quote:
Originally posted by Kashmir
One thing that surprised me when I started on this forum was the anti-southside negativity. I know it can be retail hell now, but for someone who grew up in the Union/Southeast area long before LowesSupertargetHomeDepotetc...was built it was a place with it's own flavor. To hear of it here, some people assume others live here for the retail convenience/big box bonanza! Not true. Especially if that's where your roots are, ya know?
And I'm done...
that's because that area has more retail activity than the dead buildings downtown and it drives the urban zealots mad.
I have definitely noticed a negative attitude of sonme native Tulsans for Tulsa. And with this attitude comes a strong distrust of government and all its agents. Now I am fairly young so I cannot fully understand the context of this distrust, but it seems that every tax proposed, every idea or motion that comes out of the city council or mayor's office is met with complete disdain and animosity. I simply cannot see eye to eye with these people.
I know that they do not speak for the majority of Tulsans, but whats so hard about holding a positive attitude about your city? We should all be united in wanting whats best for Tulsa.
That's one thing that OKC has over Tulsa, they have proven time after time that their populace wants whats best for their city. They are united and have optimism for the future. If OKC had the natural beauty that Tulsa has along with its positive citizenry the sky would be the limit. The same is true for Tulsa, except that all we need to do is to improve our own citizens perceptions. If it were only so easy.
that is because the gov has consistently misused and abused every tax that we approved.
When I think back to growing up in Tulsa and hanging out with friends from Tulsa, I honestly can't remember anyone ever saying anything nice about Tulsa. Okay, one friend that moved here from the country said she had never seen such a pretty town. That was back around about 1972.
Even today, when I gather with friends, our criticism of Tulsa is usually withering. Taking chamber of commerce reports with a grain of salt is the urbane thing to do. After all – Tulsa can dish it out and Tulsa can take it.
Now, I've lived all over the place and I've complained about everywhere I've lived. There's a Yiddish word for it – is it kvetching?
One thing I've noticed that stands out in Tulsa, and I think it goes back to the Protestant ministers among our founders. Whenever we complain, we follow it up with "but I know I'm so lucky that that frozen tree didn't fall on me." Or, "I'm so thankful I have my crummy job and I haven't starved." Or, "at least I wasn't stung to death by a thousand angry bees."
Sometimes I meet people and tell them I'm from Tulsa, and it turns out they have recently visited for a wedding or a concert or a convention. Without fail, they have good things to stay--they're surprised at how big the city feels, they had an amazingly fun time on Brookside or downtown, or they just comment on how beautiful the city is.
We make a surprisingly good impression on people, whether you know it or not. We just have to make a better impression on ourselves.
Then you get the occasional oddball like me that doesn't see complaining as a bad thing. Well, just setting around doing nothing but complaining is, but what I'm getting at is that everything, no matter how good, can be improved. When I see just about anything, I try to figure out a way to improve it. Can't help it. But to improve it, you have to figure out what is wrong with it. So, nit picking something apart, and critisizing it can be a positive thing, but only as long as the critisism is coupled with action.
Tulsans have alot to be proud of, A great clean city, great jogging trails, low cost of living, and low prop Taxes, A good strong economy and Tulsa has some of the nations cheapest fuel prices. Tulsa: Your ok in my book. I am unsure if a Tulsa resident is called a "Tulsan" or a "Tulsaite" I think it's the first one. thanx.
See thats what gets me though is all the positive things we have going for us and still there are people that complain. Or whenever there is good news, people find some way to turn it around and say something negative. There surely are things we need to improve, but goodness, when there is real good news no need to go out of ones way and find some way to make a negative out of it.
I also know that there are some people who complain because its a habit "there is an actual pshychological disorder". Its a habit that gets attention. Getting attention gives them a little feel good rush. Its like a drug, feels good for a moment, but then their normal "baseline" negativity takes over, they feel bad, and then they habitually go for the next rush by griping about something, seeking the attention, etc. Its a difficult habit and cycle to break. I have even seen some on the TW site who, if the story is undeniably good, complain about something completely unrelated to the story, just to get in a good complaint lol.
You just learn to see who the "regular, sky is falling, complainers" are, know that they always complain about everything, dont have a balanced, real perspective, and thus dont have anything real to contribute... and just ignore them. Unfortunately there is always someone who hasnt got that, takes the bait, and responds.
I have wondered if there is however, more of a "negativity culture" here as opposed to other cities? And if so, what is the cause of it? We really have a lot going for us. Tulsa really is a beautiful city with a lot of opportunity. Whats really exciting to me is that its just the right size and point in its growth that a small handful of people can get together and do something that matters, make a positive difference which will last.
quote:
Originally posted by TheArtist
I also know that there are some people who complain because its a habit "there is an actual pshychological disorder". Its a habit that gets attention. Getting attention gives them a little feel good rush. Its like a drug, feels good for a moment, but then their normal "baseline" negativity takes over, they feel bad, and then they habitually go for the next rush by griping about something, seeking the attention, etc. Its a difficult habit and cycle to break. I have even seen some on the TW site who, if the story is undeniably good, complain about something completely unrelated to the story, just to get in a good complaint lol.
Just wanted to repost this to make sure Inteller got a chance to read it
The disparity in Tulsa breeds negativity. The geographic institutionalized neglect in Tulsa breeds negativity. The favoritism to well-funded special interests that border on a De-facto shadow government in Tulsa breeds negativity. Regionalism in Tulsa breeds negativity. Want to end negativity in Tulsa? Working to end these scourges would bring positivity to Tulsa. Of course, you'll just be called a negative naysayer.
quote:
Originally posted by Hometown
Whenever we complain, we follow it up with "but I know I'm so lucky that that frozen tree didn't fall on me." Or, "I'm so thankful I have my crummy job and I haven't starved." Or, "at least I wasn't stung to death by a thousand angry bees."
Hometown, did you ever know my middle name was Pollyanna? Conan Polyanna 70. (come on you saw the movie didn't you? Otherwise the humor is lost.)
There must be something good about Tulsa to have lured you back after all these years, and certainly it couldn't have been that big a shock that Tulsa is so conservative.
quote:
Originally posted by TheArtist
See thats what gets me though is all the positive things we have going for us and still there are people that complain. Or whenever there is good news, people find some way to turn it around and say something negative. There surely are things we need to improve, but goodness, when there is real good news no need to go out of ones way and find some way to make a negative out of it.
I also know that there are some people who complain because its a habit "there is an actual pshychological disorder". Its a habit that gets attention. Getting attention gives them a little feel good rush. Its like a drug, feels good for a moment, but then their normal "baseline" negativity takes over, they feel bad, and then they habitually go for the next rush by griping about something, seeking the attention, etc. Its a difficult habit and cycle to break. I have even seen some on the TW site who, if the story is undeniably good, complain about something completely unrelated to the story, just to get in a good complaint lol.
You just learn to see who the "regular, sky is falling, complainers" are, know that they always complain about everything, dont have a balanced, real perspective, and thus dont have anything real to contribute... and just ignore them. Unfortunately there is always someone who hasnt got that, takes the bait, and responds.
I have wondered if there is however, more of a "negativity culture" here as opposed to other cities? And if so, what is the cause of it? We really have a lot going for us. Tulsa really is a beautiful city with a lot of opportunity. Whats really exciting to me is that its just the right size and point in its growth that a small handful of people can get together and do something that matters, make a positive difference which will last.
Artist, great post.
I identify people as either solution-oriented or problem-oriented. There's degrees in either direction, imagine a simple horizontal line graph if you will with one extreme to the left, the other to the right.
Problem-oriented people have a wonderful evening seeing "Phantom" or something else at the PAC, then biznitch all the way home about "having to park two blocks away, fend off 100 bums getting to their car, then it takes 15 minutes for traffic to clear down Cincinnatti."
Another example from work last week: A customer called, I asked how he was. "Not good at all, damnit!"
"Okay, so what's the problem?"
"I can't find the damned identification number on this vessel you sent me."
"Hey, don't sweat it, just relax. There's a little panel on the upper left hand corner...."
You get where I'm going with this? The dude decided it was a problem before he ever called me. Rather than **** on someone else's day, why not approach it as: "I was having a difficult time figuring out where this number was supposed to be can you help me out?"
I have friends who can ruin an entire six-hour evening by complaining about five minutes which wasn't to their liking. I usually tune them out or they are the last people I call to do things with.
Problem-oriented people seldom see problems as being their fault and generally take very little responsibility for their own actions. (Getting into a fender-bender in the mall parking lot was the other guy's fault because he was trying to nose into the same space I was)
Nothing ever seems to satisfy them completely. I cringe when I go shopping, eat, or get a haircut and I listen to someone go on and on about how bad their marriage sucks, their job sucks, the country's gone to hell in a hand-basket, this Bush economy sucks, then they toddle out and drive off in their new Lexus convertible.
These people I refer to as the GHE's, and yes, it's a way of getting attention. Generally other GHE's enjoy getting into long biznitch sessions with others.
Solution-oriented people smile when they approach the ticket agent in the airport after a four hour storm delay. Being a prick solves nothing when everyone else around is tense and tired.
Solution-oriented people are accepting of what their part in a situation is and are usually more willing to compromise or take a leadership role in making change happen rather than counting on others to do it.
There are solution-oriented people who can be over-bearing because they think they have the right idea or solution to every situation.
Long-story short- public forums like this are perfect places for GHE's and GHF's. If all you pay attention to are the complainers, Tulsa seems pretty negative. If you listen to the cheerleaders, it sounds like a place on a roll.
Tulsa has some large city vibe but it's still not Kansas City, Dallas, Denver, etc. ad nauseum yet. Tulsa has it's own "cool factors" if people choose to see it and accept what those things are. I personally can't expect one city to be just like another. Visionaries like Elliot Nelson or Nelson Kifer (didn't mean to get hung up on Nelsons- Mr. Kifer was the major catalyst in mid-Brookside revival with "Stonehorse" at 35th & Peoria in the late '70's) can get the ball rolling and literally be the cornerstone of future developemnt- all with private funds.
Problem-oriented people see a crumbling old building. Solution-oriented people have a vision for a new vibrance in the area.
All I can say, is I've lived here for 42 years and I'm astonished how much has been invested here, and how much the area has developed, especially the last 20 years as we shrugged off the oil bust.
Personally, it's pretty hard for me to crap on the kind of progress we've seen in a relatively short period of time, especially after a collapse of our core economy not 25 years ago.
One of the wonderful things about being back in Tulsa is getting to know my nieces and nephew. I knew that our family tradition was alive and well when the subject turned to Tulsa, and my nephew said, "Tulsa, nothing's going on here, Tulsa is soooo boring." My niece was shaking her head yes and making this "sour taste in my mouth" face.
They are all making plans to leave. They will go out in the world and experience marvelous things and see incredible sights and look a little closer and see that even the emerald city is flawed and finally realize that little old Tulsa is like the rest of the world -- the reality falls somewhere short of the chamber of commerce report.
Tulsa is wonderful. Tulsa is a "has been." Both at the same time. Life is complex. Or as complex as you are able to perceive.
Tulsa may never be a Dallas or even an Oklahoma City, but at least I'm thankful that ....
Another weird thing that Tulsans often do is apologize for living here. If you grew up here and left, and then returned for some reason, other native Tulsans will frequently ask why you came back. (Transplants don't typically ask this. They had a choice, and chose to move here. They know why they did it.)
Years ago, I was one of the aplogists. After living in Colorado I came back, and felt the need to explain myself: "My folks were getting older so I came back to be closer to my family." For a long time, I didn't feel like a Tulsan as much as "someone who lived in Tulsa."
Over the years, I have grown to love Tulsa despite all its flaws. (And yes, I do still dream sometimes of running away to Portland where people are more progressive, or the mountains, or somewhere without allergies!)
Especially in the past 5 years, I have met so many amazing, smart and interesting people (mostly by participating on the board of TulsaNow) it's really opened my eyes about Tulsa and Tulsans.
I've also found that when I'm most happy, I don't spend a lot of time complaining about stuff or getting bogged down in negativity. And it's made me realize that the people who are most negative are also the most unhappy. The happy people tend to be among Conan's "solution-oriented" people. And I think that's both cause and effect.
I think your musings equate to not rocking the boat. Bliss is fine so long as you don't mind the consequences.
That's how things like the EMSA tax get initiated, without so much as a peep out of those effected.
If I think it's wrong, you label me negative, a naysayer, even unhappy (which couldn't be further from the truth).
It's a question of if people should be allowed to decide themselves what's good for them, or not. The mayor said not.
quote:
Originally posted by Wrinkle
I think your musings equate to not rocking the boat. Bliss is fine so long as you don't mind the consequences.
That's how things like the EMSA tax get initiated, without so much as a peep out of those effected.
If I think it's wrong, you label me negative, a naysayer, even unhappy (which couldn't be further from the truth).
It's a question of if people should be allowed to decide themselves what's good for them, or not. The mayor said not.
Wow, exaggerate much? No I agree the EMSA Tax is crazy and personally think the city should have gone with the fire department's proposal when contract renewals where up instead of staying with EMSA, But that is neither here nor there on this topic.
Some people clearly get what I am talking about here, others clearly don't.
Let me put it this way, griping about something do nothing to fix it thats being negative.
Griping about something and do something even casting a vote, even forming a group like minded people, what have you, then your doing something, thats not negativity thats working for change and always good, whether I personally agree or not.
Being involved in your community and promoting the good, doing something about the bad, then fine moan about it.
Fear of change, the lack of action, thats the negativity I am talking about.
I am not saying what I want Tulsa to be in this thread, well I am, but not in exact context, I am just tired of no one ever talking about the good.
Either way thanks everyone for your input good to see I am not the only one that sees it.
You jarred loose an interesting thought GB71. I'm amazed at how many people who complain about government who don't ever vote. "Ah, their all crooks, why vote, doesn't make a difference." I can seriously think of at least ten people I've known who thought Nixon sucked, Carter sucked, Reagan sucked, both Bushes, and Clinton sucked- yet they have never registered to vote.
I didn't get overly interested in city politics or let me re-word, see how many ways people can get involved and make a difference until about the time I started posting on TulsaNow. I understand far more about the workings of our local government and have a better idea than I did two years ago of how to be an advocate for and how to approach others about change or how to get things done. It's been enlightening.
I also got what Ponder was saying about apologizing about returning to Tulsa. I lived in KC for about six months a little over 20 years ago. I moved up there on a pipe dream. At any rate it took a few years to finally admit it, but Tulsa's not just a great place to "be from" it can be a great place to "be" if you have the right mind-set.
I'm in Little Rock this week for software training. The software trainer went on for about 5 minutes during lunch yesterday telling us and other trainees from Texas how much he loved to train in Tulsa. He thought Brookside was so much fun. And the trainer went on to tell the Texas trainees about Cains Ballroom and Riverparks... It would be nice to hear that kind of enthusiasm from Tulsans (other than this forum) every once and a while.
We'll get there soon, I have a feeling....
I guess there's all kinds of negativity. Personally I save my critism for people I care about. And I try to soften the blow when I deliver it. But, if I don't like you, you'll never hear a word of personal criticism from me, because I want you to fail.
Now, as far as ripping Tulsa goes, if family can't tell her, who can?
A great city embraces and learns from her critics. Tulsa is a great city.
Did you hear that young professionals? Tulsa was on the map before you even thought about being born. So don't tell me about putting Tulsa on the map. My grandparents' generation did that.
Its not just Tulsa- I hear it all the time in Phoenix, and from people in Dallas, and the worst might be OKC, but Albuquerque folk can be a bit negative too. I've even heard rumblings from Chicagoans and Angeleno's too. Let's face it- Most Americans suffer from the 'grass is greener' syndrome pretty badly.
I think many Americans are so disillusioned with life these days they are convinced that anywhere would be better than where they are.
FWIW, Almost everyone I meet, outside of Tulsa, that knows anything about Tulsa, has only good things to say. Texans excluded.
quote:
Originally posted by azbadpuppy
Its not just Tulsa- I hear it all the time in Phoenix, and from people in Dallas, and the worst might be OKC, but Albuquerque folk can be a bit negative too. I've even heard rumblings from Chicagoans and Angeleno's too. Let's face it- Most Americans suffer from the 'grass is greener' syndrome pretty badly.
I think many Americans are so disillusioned with life these days they are convinced that anywhere would be better than where they are.
FWIW, Almost everyone I meet, outside of Tulsa, that knows anything about Tulsa, has only good things to say. Texans excluded.
Hey now, some of us Texans are working to bring Tulsa up to speed.
Tulsey Town has route 66, and is the gathering place of the Five Civilized Tribes.
There's many poor people that deserve to have what is good in the land for a season, and what is spiritually good, too.
Think postive about "T"-Towne. I really like Tulsa's RiverSide jogging trail. That's a great place to run & relax after a hard day at work.[:)]
Its not just Tulsa- I hear it all the time in Phoenix, and from people in Dallas, and the worst might be OKC, but Albuquerque folk can be a bit negative too. I've even heard rumblings from Chicagoans and Angeleno's too. Let's face it- Most Americans suffer from the 'grass is greener' syndrome pretty badly.
I think many Americans are so disillusioned with life these days they are convinced that anywhere would be better than where they are.
FWIW, Almost everyone I meet, outside of Tulsa, that knows anything about Tulsa, has only good things to say. Texans excluded.
Tulsans have high expectations and do not react positively unless there is a proven chance of reaching those expectations. Not a bad thing really. Makes change difficult. V2025 showed a path and set high standards and still was a close vote.
Nonetheless, we're 5 little towns and some suburbs in a loose association. It doesn't make sense to say we're negative. I would be hard pressed to find a typical Tulsan.
The grass is greener thing... I feel that way about Columbus, Ohio & Omaha, NE. I'm thinking on moving to Omaha, NE from Columbus, Ohio... [8D]
AMEN!!!
quote:
Originally posted by cannon_fodder
quote:
Originally posted by inteller
it's reality. get used to it.
Slavery was a reality. Racism is still a reality. Shall we just get used to it?
Germany used to invade France every other decade, never got used to it.
Tulsa was shedding jobs like dog hair in the spring, good thing we didn't just get used to it.
People die a slow and painful death from cancer all too often. Disease rots the brains of loved ones. Children are sexual abused every day - just get used to it.
That's just a horrible attitude to have. Your world must be very sad if you "just get used to" such things. Nearly everything that is bad can be changed or at least addressed. At VERY least you could have a desire to see it changed, instead of just accepting it as it is.
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Originally posted by Conan71
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Originally posted by TheArtist
See thats what gets me though is all the positive things we have going for us and still there are people that complain. Or whenever there is good news, people find some way to turn it around and say something negative. There surely are things we need to improve, but goodness, when there is real good news no need to go out of ones way and find some way to make a negative out of it.
I also know that there are some people who complain because its a habit "there is an actual pshychological disorder". Its a habit that gets attention. Getting attention gives them a little feel good rush. Its like a drug, feels good for a moment, but then their normal "baseline" negativity takes over, they feel bad, and then they habitually go for the next rush by griping about something, seeking the attention, etc. Its a difficult habit and cycle to break. I have even seen some on the TW site who, if the story is undeniably good, complain about something completely unrelated to the story, just to get in a good complaint lol.
You just learn to see who the "regular, sky is falling, complainers" are, know that they always complain about everything, dont have a balanced, real perspective, and thus dont have anything real to contribute... and just ignore them. Unfortunately there is always someone who hasnt got that, takes the bait, and responds.
I have wondered if there is however, more of a "negativity culture" here as opposed to other cities? And if so, what is the cause of it? We really have a lot going for us. Tulsa really is a beautiful city with a lot of opportunity. Whats really exciting to me is that its just the right size and point in its growth that a small handful of people can get together and do something that matters, make a positive difference which will last.
Artist, great post.
I identify people as either solution-oriented or problem-oriented. There's degrees in either direction, imagine a simple horizontal line graph if you will with one extreme to the left, the other to the right.
Problem-oriented people have a wonderful evening seeing "Phantom" or something else at the PAC, then biznitch all the way home about "having to park two blocks away, fend off 100 bums getting to their car, then it takes 15 minutes for traffic to clear down Cincinnatti."
Another example from work last week: A customer called, I asked how he was. "Not good at all, damnit!"
"Okay, so what's the problem?"
"I can't find the damned identification number on this vessel you sent me."
"Hey, don't sweat it, just relax. There's a little panel on the upper left hand corner...."
You get where I'm going with this? The dude decided it was a problem before he ever called me. Rather than **** on someone else's day, why not approach it as: "I was having a difficult time figuring out where this number was supposed to be can you help me out?"
I have friends who can ruin an entire six-hour evening by complaining about five minutes which wasn't to their liking. I usually tune them out or they are the last people I call to do things with.
Problem-oriented people seldom see problems as being their fault and generally take very little responsibility for their own actions. (Getting into a fender-bender in the mall parking lot was the other guy's fault because he was trying to nose into the same space I was)
Nothing ever seems to satisfy them completely. I cringe when I go shopping, eat, or get a haircut and I listen to someone go on and on about how bad their marriage sucks, their job sucks, the country's gone to hell in a hand-basket, this Bush economy sucks, then they toddle out and drive off in their new Lexus convertible.
These people I refer to as the GHE's, and yes, it's a way of getting attention. Generally other GHE's enjoy getting into long biznitch sessions with others.
Solution-oriented people smile when they approach the ticket agent in the airport after a four hour storm delay. Being a prick solves nothing when everyone else around is tense and tired.
Solution-oriented people are accepting of what their part in a situation is and are usually more willing to compromise or take a leadership role in making change happen rather than counting on others to do it.
There are solution-oriented people who can be over-bearing because they think they have the right idea or solution to every situation.
Long-story short- public forums like this are perfect places for GHE's and GHF's. If all you pay attention to are the complainers, Tulsa seems pretty negative. If you listen to the cheerleaders, it sounds like a place on a roll.
Tulsa has some large city vibe but it's still not Kansas City, Dallas, Denver, etc. ad nauseum yet. Tulsa has it's own "cool factors" if people choose to see it and accept what those things are. I personally can't expect one city to be just like another. Visionaries like Elliot Nelson or Nelson Kifer (didn't mean to get hung up on Nelsons- Mr. Kifer was the major catalyst in mid-Brookside revival with "Stonehorse" at 35th & Peoria in the late '70's) can get the ball rolling and literally be the cornerstone of future developemnt- all with private funds.
Problem-oriented people see a crumbling old building. Solution-oriented people have a vision for a new vibrance in the area.
All I can say, is I've lived here for 42 years and I'm astonished how much has been invested here, and how much the area has developed, especially the last 20 years as we shrugged off the oil bust.
Personally, it's pretty hard for me to crap on the kind of progress we've seen in a relatively short period of time, especially after a collapse of our core economy not 25 years ago.
I've come to be a fairly regular "lurker" here and rarely post since I'm from Okc and just like reading about what's going on up the Turnpike. It's a great forum you have here!
But, I would be remiss if I didn't say that the above 2 posts are a pair of the finest that I've read anywhere. Good stuff that those from ANY city would benefit from hearing and thinking about.
Tulsa IS a great city, so is mine. The kinds of attitudes expressed above only mean that good things will continue to happen. And there you are!