driver's license testing.
Sad.
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=20080401_1__OKLAH23086 (//%22http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=20080401_1__OKLAH23086%22)
Not to sound bigoted nor racist, but I have a real problem with this. They have to understand that to be an American citizen or at least live here, one might ought to get a feel for the English language. This isn't the Middle East.
Street signs are in English.
Test should be in English.
Of course now that I think of it. . .if we offer the test in other languages and keep using only English on our street signs. . .My pizza will be free every time![:D]
How can you learn English if you can't drive to the lessons? Seems like it could be catch 22.
Also the signs are in English, but are mainly stop, go, left and right. Hardly compound sentences.
quote:
Originally posted by mr.jaynes
Not to sound bigoted nor racist, but I have a real problem with this. They have to understand that to be an American citizen or at least live here, one might ought to get a feel for the English language. This isn't the Middle East.
there is nothing bigoted about promoting the de facto language which helps keep costs down and allow efficient communication.
quote:
Originally posted by inteller
.
there is nothing bigoted about promoting the de facto language which helps keep costs down and allow efficient communication.
+1
I think we should provide reasonable accommodation to everyone. I am pro-immigration and want to make the transition to life in America (not even necessarily assimilation) as easy as possible. However, a fact of life in America is that English is the dominant language.
It is simply a matter of practicality that we can not provide everything in every language (as cool as Farsi may be). This would add another layer of expense and trouble to nearly every system. Should a person need a translator to assure justice in court - it should always be provided. But for other services I'm afraid it just will not work out.
You'll have to take a bus to your English lessons for a while or work on learning a little before immigrating. I really don't want to be harsh on this, but in the past great waves the Italians, Chinese, and Eastern Europeans all found ways to make it work and I expect the Persians are just as resourceful.
quote:
Finally, the couple went to the neighboring state of Kansas, located less than 25 miles north of Bartlesville, where they each passed a Kansas exam that tested their driving skills using graphic symbols rather than language, Hassan Sharifi said.
I think the article gives us a reasonable solution for this problem. It's cheaper than translation into every language, but respectful of the fact that it can take time to learn English and a car is sadly a neccessity.
The solution is in the World article:
quote:
Finally, the couple went to the neighboring state of Kansas, located less than 25 miles north of Bartlesville, where they each passed a Kansas exam that tested their driving skills using graphic symbols rather than language, Hassan Sharifi said.
"There was no translation needed," he said. Once they returned to Oklahoma, they exchanged their Kansas driver's licenses to Oklahoma licenses and are now both legally licensed to drive in the state, he said.
I appreciate wanting to limit public testing and discourse to English, and maybe Spanish only, but there're ways around the problem that don't involve writing tests in Tagalog or Sanskrit or cuneiform.
The majority of our traffic instructions rely on shapes, colors, symbols, and single words, anyway. Surely we're smart enough to create a test that uses that to our advantage.
quote:
Originally posted by we vs us
The solution is in the World article:
quote:
Finally, the couple went to the neighboring state of Kansas, located less than 25 miles north of Bartlesville, where they each passed a Kansas exam that tested their driving skills using graphic symbols rather than language, Hassan Sharifi said.
"There was no translation needed," he said. Once they returned to Oklahoma, they exchanged their Kansas driver's licenses to Oklahoma licenses and are now both legally licensed to drive in the state, he said.
I appreciate wanting to limit public testing and discourse to English, and maybe Spanish only, but there're ways around the problem that don't involve writing tests in Tagalog or Sanskrit or cuneiform.
The majority of our traffic instructions rely on shapes, colors, symbols, and single words, anyway. Surely we're smart enough to create a test that uses that to our advantage.
Jinx, Si!
Now to try and force us to put it in Farsi would mean that they don't understand english. I'm okay with this, because that means when they get pulled over for not following the laws that are written in english, the cop can beat the hell out of them for resisting arrest because they could not understand him saying "shut up and get out of the car and put your hands behind your back"
Where are all the rabid dolts who were calling "English-only" initiatives xenophobic and racist six months ago?
I've said all along this is a Pandora's box full of trouble. If you allow it to be in English and Spanish, why not Italian, why not French, why not Swahili, now- why not Farsi?
quote:
Originally posted by custosnox
Now to try and force us to put it in Farsi would mean that they don't understand english. I'm okay with this, because that means when they get pulled over for not following the laws that are written in english, the cop can beat the hell out of them for resisting arrest because they could not understand him saying "shut up and get out of the car and put your hands behind your back"
There are plenty of completely illiterate English speakers, you know. Just because one can't read and write a given language does not mean that one can't understand it. Nor does not being able to speak it mean you can't understand it.
I understand a lot of Spanish. I can't speak it at even the level of a two year old.
If you want to argue that the cost involved dictates that we only offer access to government services in English, fine. (I disagree, but I think government is there to serve all of us, not just those of us who are literate) Your argument, however? Completely off the rails.
Personally, I think this wonderful thing called the census can solve all our issues regarding languages in government. It's simple. If more than, say, 5% (that particular number is completely arbitrary on my part) of the population of the area a given level of government serves speaks a particular language, they should be required to have forms in that language and have a proportionate number of people who can speak or translate that particular language.
It's not as if the people who don't speak English don't pay the same taxes as you do.
i have no problem with stuff being in spanish as well as english because mexico is right here, but Farsi? no
go anywhere in europe and near the borders of twio countries there are always signs in 2 or sometimes more languages but they make sense because of their proximity to the respective cultures.
There is no need to be in such haste to teach the English language because is it not predicted that by the time this generation comes to pass the English descendants will be in the minority?
We stretch out our hand and beckon those who are dissatisfied in their home land to come and take ours, like we did with the Native culture that existed here short centuries ago.
quote:
Originally posted by wavoka
driver's license testing.
Sad.
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=20080401_1__OKLAH23086 (//%22http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=20080401_1__OKLAH23086%22)
The way I look it is if you want testing in another language then go back to the country you came from.English is the language of the land.Want to speak Farsi then go to a country that speaks that language,want to speak spanish then go to a spanish speaking country.I don't expect anyone to have complete mastery of the English,especially immigrants. However I do expect that you at least know just enough English so that the vast majority of people can understand what you are trying to say.
really I think this proposal is designed to run counter of the english only bill that is breezing through committee right now.
terrill is saving us loads of money by doing this because we'll no longer have to accomodate people who refuse to learn the lingua franca.
I think it's clear they just wanted to take the test graphically, just like the test offered in Kansas that they passed. They didn't want it in Farsi. There are plenty of people who drive around this town every day with no license, insurance, etc. And they speak speak English I presume. The people in B'ville just wanted to be within OK law by obtaining a driver's license. Sad, they had to go to Kansas to do it.
Does anyone know if the English only bill would stop graphical testing like Kansas?
Turns out they never demanded a test in Farsi at all. Tulsa World today: (//%22http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=20080403_1_A1_spanc28164%22)
quote:
But Hassan Sharifi of Bartlesville, a cousin to Farda Sharifi, said the couple never demanded a Farsi test.
The couple had requested a graphics test, such as the one offered in Kansas, where the couple moved to establish residency, he said. They eventually obtained Kansas driver's licenses and then returned to Bartlesville, where they were able to exchange them for Oklahoma driver's licences.
"They never asked to take the test in Farsi -- that wasn't the true fact," Hassan Sharifi said Wednesday. "We wouldn't have asked for that because it would have been impossible. All they wanted was to have a driver's license and take the test by any means possible, which is what is supposed to be allowed under the president's executive order."
That executive order -- signed by President Bill Clinton in 2000 -- calls upon states to provide a way for people who don't speak English to obtain a driver's license through alternative testing methods.
quote:
Originally posted by we vs us
Turns out they never demanded a test in Farsi at all. Tulsa World today: (//%22http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=20080403_1_A1_spanc28164%22) quote:
But Hassan Sharifi of Bartlesville, a cousin to Farda Sharifi, said the couple never demanded a Farsi test.
The couple had requested a graphics test, such as the one offered in Kansas, where the couple moved to establish residency, he said. They eventually obtained Kansas driver's licenses and then returned to Bartlesville, where they were able to exchange them for Oklahoma driver's licences.
"They never asked to take the test in Farsi -- that wasn't the true fact," Hassan Sharifi said Wednesday. "We wouldn't have asked for that because it would have been impossible. All they wanted was to have a driver's license and take the test by any means possible, which is what is supposed to be allowed under the president's executive order."
That executive order -- signed by President Bill Clinton in 2000 -- calls upon states to provide a way for people who don't speak English to obtain a driver's license through alternative testing methods.
Well, that settles it. We all pissed and moaned for nothing.
quote:
Originally posted by si_uk_lon_ok
Does anyone know if the English only bill would stop graphical testing like Kansas?
No then the illiterates wouldn't be able to take it.
quote:
Originally posted by custosnox
Now to try and force us to put it in Farsi would mean that they don't understand english. I'm okay with this, because that means when they get pulled over for not following the laws that are written in english, the cop can beat the hell out of them for resisting arrest because they could not understand him saying "shut up and get out of the car and put your hands behind your back"
Wouldn't that depend on how belligerent and quick-tempered the arrestee is?