I dont think the Associated Press could have screwed up this story more had they actually tried:
OKLAHOMA CITY (AP) - State liquor regulators have voted to keep rules that require beer wholesalers to help preserve the quality of strong beer.
The Alcoholic Beverage Laws Enforcement Commission voted 5-1 Friday to retain beer quality rules.
Beer makers say it's important that wholesalers rotate and refrigerate beer to help keep it fresh. State law prohibits retail liquor stores from refrigerating beer and many do not rotate their bottled beer supplies.
Three beer wholesalers in Oklahoma City and Tulsa asked the ABLE Commission to strike the rule. They say competition will determine how wholesalers maintain fresh beer products and the producers shouldn't be telling them what to do.
So, is the story that Okla wholesalers dont want to keep their stock in good condition per brewery instructions, or that ABLE is contradicting itself, or what the h&ll is the story here?
I think this is probably a story about the deteriorating conditions of our nations news reporting. A sad retort of the "we make a cheaper and inferior product and then make more money not he long run" thinking. Which, of course, worked out well for Schlitz, the US Automotive industry, and Kmart.
On the substantive issue... who cares?
* The distributors want to be kept in the loop with laws that serve no purpose to the consumer.
* Liquor Stores want to cut out the distributors to make more money while keeping super markets out of the loop and really don't care about the consumers
* Ultra conservatives and MADD want to enforce their beliefs on other people and will support whichever side in either argument makes alcohol more expensive, less convenient, or of poorer quality
* Law makers will take whatever side will bennefit them the most with either their contributors or electoral base, and don't really care about the bigger pictures
and each and every group involved will contradict itself in the other side of the argument if it helps reach their goals.
Yet another great reason less government is good government. At the end of the day we the consumer end up with less choice, fewer locations to buy, more expense... and the same level of abuse. Woohoo! U.S.A, U.S.A!
"On the substantive issue... who cares?" Also, no reason to change the current laws?
Because they RUIN MY ****ING BEER. Period. Stop babysitting drunken jackasses that are a waste of oxygen, let them drive their stupid asses into a tree and die and let me have my beer that doesn't taste like warmed-over elephant dung because it has been PROPERLY REFRIGERATED AND CARED FOR. The government has no business limiting the quality of something I can buy anyway. If Drunken Joe white trash is willing to spend the extra $2 for better beer, he is probably willing to just buy a bottle of Everclear before he crashes his 1984 buick into a police cruiser driving the wrong direction on highway 51.
48 other states in the *#T^!@$@#^!@# union can manage this, why does Oklahoma have to be one of the backwards donkey states that can't handle having COLD BEER that doesn't taste like cow piss!? I took a trip to Washington, DC and you could order WINE at McDonalds. I am pretty sure Jesus came down and strangled me with his bare hands for seeing that option on the menu.
The only thing that will fix this abomination is the abolition of these completely baseless, bull#@!# bureaucratic arms of the government that don't belong telling me what I can do being dissolved and obliterated entirely. The only things that they deserve to have control over is the location of their own bull****, flowing freely out of their biased mouths.
quote:
Originally posted by Steve
EricP, your rant is a great testament to keeping the current beer laws as they are. I am not a beer drinker, and I couldn't care less about Oklahoma beer laws, but your narative keeps me all in favor of keeping things just as they are today.
Would you have a more open mind if this were something that actually affected you?
quote:
Originally posted by cannon_fodder
I think this is probably a story about the deteriorating conditions of our nations news reporting. A sad retort of the "we make a cheaper and inferior product and then make more money not he long run" thinking. Which, of course, worked out well for Schlitz, the US Automotive industry, and Kmart.
Something about that paragraph made me think of Callahan Auto Parts in Sandusky, Ohio... [:P]
Oklahoma has some really strange alcohol laws. Regardless of what temperature beer is sold at, the alcohol content, how late, or what days you can or cannot buy it does not seem to affect drunk driving rates, teen pregnancy, babies being born naked, or the amount of blue in a Picasso painting.
We truly do have some weird blue laws in this state which need to be looked at. We really do have some liquor laws which are almost like laws prohibiting using a lawn mower as a hedge trimmer. Allow common sense to dictate the alcohol laws in Oklahoma, not antiquated thinking.
Able needs to be abolished.....
quote:
Originally posted by Breadburner
Able needs to be abolished.....
For some reason I think I heard they are talking about that already. Dividing the responsibilities to the tax commission and some other agency.
I'll continue buying most of my beer in other states until we as a state join the 1970s.
Kids can go to a night club that serves 3.2 beer, but I can't buy a cold, nonskunkified beer.
There is a lot of backwardness in this state, but that is one of the worst examples of what's wrong with this state.
quote:
Originally posted by Mike G
quote:
Originally posted by Breadburner
Able needs to be abolished.....
For some reason I think I heard they are talking about that already. Dividing the responsibilities to the tax commission and some other agency.
They're shifting it to the narcotics agency, since they have such a successful track record.
quote:
Originally posted by Steve
This beer temperature issue has made the news here on and off for 50 years. Oklahoma law requires liquor stores to sell all products at room temperature. That is why the big mass brewers pulled all their stronger beer products from Oklahoma 30 years ago.
When the original regs were written for liquor stores back in 1959, temperance was a priority, hence the temperature rules. Any beverage product over 3.2 percent alcohol by weight, must be sold in liquor stores at room temperature. This rule has held for 50 years, and obviously serves the liquor stores well, but I also think there is general public benefit too. I see no reason to change the current regs.
That's NOT why the mass producers don't sell beer in liquor stores.
Oklahoma law also dictates that you can't grant franchises at the wholesale level for distribution of liquor. The big beer producers make a lot of money from the sale of franchise fees and have therefore made the decision to only sell beer at less than 3.2% by weight to maintain their ability to sell franchises in Oklahoma.
The beer not being cold has nothing to do with their decision. The beer sold in Oklahoma in excess of 3.2% in liquor stores is all pasteurized so it is not harmed by being stored warm. Oklahoma is impacted by the law over warm sales in that some small producers that don't pasteurize can't sell beer in Oklahoma, at least not in liquor stores (these producers can sell in bars and restaurants in Oklahoma where the beer is refrigerated for sale).
quote:
Originally posted by swake
The beer sold in Oklahoma in excess of 3.2% in liquor stores is all pasteurized so it is not harmed by being stored warm.
I beg to differ. Either way, the way I look at it is that this is excessive government regulation. Stop telling me what I can drink and at what temperature it can be sold at. It drives away some of the best brews.
quote:
Originally posted by EricP
the way I look at it is that this is excessive government regulation. Stop telling me what I can drink and at what temperature it can be sold at. It drives away some of the best brews.
Sadly, the people that cripple our microbrewery and tourism economies will boast about how many lives they think they are saving.
Patric, that's the rub as I see it. Traffic enforcement of DUI has saveed a lot more lives than closing liquor stores at 9pm and archaic laws about high point beer.
quote:
Originally posted by Conan71
Patric, that's the rub as I see it. Traffic enforcement of DUI has saveed a lot more lives than closing liquor stores at 9pm and archaic laws about high point beer.
Let's do a survey of DUI drivers and ask them how many are microbrew buyers and how many are stumbling idiots coming home from bars clubs, drinking 3 point and mixed drinks. Grr.
quote:
Originally posted by EricP
quote:
Originally posted by Conan71
Patric, that's the rub as I see it. Traffic enforcement of DUI has saveed a lot more lives than closing liquor stores at 9pm and archaic laws about high point beer.
Let's do a survey of DUI drivers and ask them how many are microbrew buyers and how many are stumbling idiots coming home from bars clubs, drinking 3 point and mixed drinks. Grr.
I'm sure a % of drunk drivers are people who ran out and were going back to the store to get more, but not the largest %. I used to follow the stats a lot closer.
DUI's a whole other issue. There's no excuse for it. A cab ride is a whole lot cheaper and safer for everyone.
quote:
Originally posted by Conan71
quote:
Originally posted by EricP
quote:
Originally posted by Conan71
Patric, that's the rub as I see it. Traffic enforcement of DUI has saveed a lot more lives than closing liquor stores at 9pm and archaic laws about high point beer.
Let's do a survey of DUI drivers and ask them how many are microbrew buyers and how many are stumbling idiots coming home from bars clubs, drinking 3 point and mixed drinks. Grr.
I'm sure a % of drunk drivers are people who ran out and were going back to the store to get more, but not the largest %. I used to follow the stats a lot closer.
DUI's a whole other issue. There's no excuse for it. A cab ride is a whole lot cheaper and safer for everyone.
I would think that people that buy at a liquor store drink at home mostly, and therefore have less need to drive. Making that scenario more difficult than going to a bar, getting loaded and then driving home makes no sense.
But then not selling cold beer so the purchaser can't drink the beer in the car makes sense since if he can't drink a cold beer he may as well take a shot (or three) of Jack Daniels.
quote:
Originally posted by Steve
but I also think there is general public benefit too. I see no reason to change the current regs.
Steve, many on here have posted why they think the laws should change. You have stated that you don't drink beer and there is no reason to change them. Is that the benefit to the general public, that is has no effect on you so why not? Doesn't make sense to me.
The correlation between alcohol availability and problems with alcoholism is weak at best. In Iowa, where I grew up and went to undergraduate gas grocery stores sell beer, vodka and wine. Yet I see far more liquor bottles and 40oz in the streets if Tulsa and Oklahoma has a higher alcoholism and DUI rate.
What good do these laws serve?
* Most underage kids get exactly the amount of alcohol they want (not more available because sold in grocery store/cold), generally drink crap, and are "exposed" to alcohol pervasively in our culture such that seeing it on grocery store shelves shouldn't traumatize them - so any argument involving "think of the children" doesn't make much sense
* Alcoholics generally are not drinking $10 a 6 pack micro brews and usually have a stock for Sundays, after 9pm, or can go buy some Old Mill at QT or to a bar if they want a fix.
* Drunk drivers are drunk driving; why does it matter if they drive drunk to a liquor store to get more beer or a QT, a friends house, or a bar? It is something illegal no matter the destination.
* Many microbrews are NOT pasteurized and are thus effected by the temperature changes. What's more, even if pasteurized there is a common belief that temperature changes alter the beer and/or cause it to age faster.
* Saving unneeded jobs is also a poor argument. Why not dictate doormen, chauffeurs, elevator men, or abolish traffic lights and have attendance direct traffic... to create jobs (all done in some countries).
Really, I'm curious... someone that is in favor to our current regulation or even more obtrusive regulation - why?
what constitutes 'room temperature'?
that seems ambiguous if that is the way the law is written.
what if a liquor store had a 'room' where the temp. was at say... 35 degrees?
quote:
Originally posted by grahambino
what constitutes 'room temperature'?
that seems ambiguous if that is the way the law is written.
what if a liquor store had a 'room' where the temp. was at say... 35 degrees?
Excellent try but there's guidelines apparently.
Main Entry: room temperature
Function: noun
: a temperature of from 59° to 77°F (15° to 25°C) which is suitable for human occupancy and at which laboratory experiments are usually performed
Merriam-Webster's Medical Dictionary, © 2002 Merriam-Webster, Inc.
What if the room was poorly insulated during the winter and the AC malfunctioned in the summer. [;)]
well, I am happy that the law as it was written was written by people who apparently didn't drink.
I'm so happy they had to foresight back in 1959, to limit consumer choice. I am grateful they knew they could & still can continue to save me from myself. If the State government doesn't do it, there's no way any of us could display any modicum of self control.
You see it all the time. Someone in Texas buying a cold six pack of Miller Lite and drinking all 6 RIGHT THERE IN THE PARKING LOT!
Hell, every time I'm in Texas, I go to Kroger, get a 6 pack. I'm insatiable, I can't even wait to get to the car. I'm popping my third one open by the time I'm starting the car.
All beer drinkers are like this, too. Every last one, don't lie. You know you are. We cannot control ourselves. You have to have that beer fix...right now. RIGHT NOW.
Its 5pm somewhere, right?!
Exposure to sunlight does more damage than temp changes.....
Iraq. Who cares
The economy. Yawn
Home foreclosures. Zzzzzzzzzzz
Immigration. Talk to me later
But give 'em cold beer or else.
considering your most recent posted topics are such pressing issues as...
-Can a private school do this?
-My WinStar Casino Project
-Auto Body Shops
-Boyd Coddington dead at age 63
i would make a suggestion you dismount from your vertically endowed equine.
quote:
Originally posted by grahambino
well, I am happy that the law as it was written was written by people who apparently didn't drink.
I'm so happy they had to foresight back in 1959, to limit consumer choice. I am grateful they knew they could & still can continue to save me from myself. If the State government doesn't do it, there's no way any of us could display any modicum of self control.
You see it all the time. Someone in Texas buying a cold six pack of Miller Lite and drinking all 6 RIGHT THERE IN THE PARKING LOT!
Hell, every time I'm in Texas, I go to Kroger, get a 6 pack. I'm insatiable, I can't even wait to get to the car. I'm popping my third one open by the time I'm starting the car.
While your at it, lets have our government save all of us from ourselves in everyway. From now on, you have to eat what the government tells you to, drink what the government tells you to, sleep when the government tells you to. No more sky diving, bungee jumping, hang gliding, or even riding roller coasters, as these are all dangerous. While we are at it, let's take your keys from you, since you obviously can't be trusted to drive yourself to work. So tell me, exactly where we draw the line? When do we get to live our own lives, instead of the government leading it for us? If this is the system you trully prefer, then I suggest you find a nice communist country to live in.
quote:
Originally posted by grahambino
All beer drinkers are like this, too. Every last one, don't lie. You know you are. We cannot control ourselves. You have to have that beer fix...right now. RIGHT NOW.
Its 5pm somewhere, right?!
Kinda funny, I just finished my left over case of corona from new years eve last weekend. Granted, I keep having trouble finding limes in the store (what is up with that anyways), but still. I am a beer drinker, but yet I can have just one, and I can go weeks without one. So if you have this much of a problem with self control, then I think it's time you go to AA, and let the rest of us practice our own self control
quote:
Originally posted by grahambino
what constitutes 'room temperature'?
that seems ambiguous if that is the way the law is written.
what if a liquor store had a 'room' where the temp. was at say... 35 degrees?
Haha.. now that you mention it, Brown's Bottle Shop in Stillwater would always have it absolutely FRIGID in there. Those guys know what's up :)
quote:
Originally posted by custosnox
quote:
Originally posted by grahambino
well, I am happy that the law as it was written was written by people who apparently didn't drink.
I'm so happy they had to foresight back in 1959, to limit consumer choice. I am grateful they knew they could & still can continue to save me from myself. If the State government doesn't do it, there's no way any of us could display any modicum of self control.
You see it all the time. Someone in Texas buying a cold six pack of Miller Lite and drinking all 6 RIGHT THERE IN THE PARKING LOT!
Hell, every time I'm in Texas, I go to Kroger, get a 6 pack. I'm insatiable, I can't even wait to get to the car. I'm popping my third one open by the time I'm starting the car.
While your at it, lets have our government save all of us from ourselves in everyway. From now on, you have to eat what the government tells you to, drink what the government tells you to, sleep when the government tells you to. No more sky diving, bungee jumping, hang gliding, or even riding roller coasters, as these are all dangerous. While we are at it, let's take your keys from you, since you obviously can't be trusted to drive yourself to work. So tell me, exactly where we draw the line? When do we get to live our own lives, instead of the government leading it for us? If this is the system you trully prefer, then I suggest you find a nice communist country to live in.
quote:
Originally posted by grahambino
All beer drinkers are like this, too. Every last one, don't lie. You know you are. We cannot control ourselves. You have to have that beer fix...right now. RIGHT NOW.
Its 5pm somewhere, right?!
Kinda funny, I just finished my left over case of corona from new years eve last weekend. Granted, I keep having trouble finding limes in the store (what is up with that anyways), but still. I am a beer drinker, but yet I can have just one, and I can go weeks without one. So if you have this much of a problem with self control, then I think it's time you go to AA, and let the rest of us practice our own self control
...I think it was sarcasm...
quote:
Originally posted by TURobY
quote:
Originally posted by custosnox
quote:
Originally posted by grahambino
well, I am happy that the law as it was written was written by people who apparently didn't drink.
I'm so happy they had to foresight back in 1959, to limit consumer choice. I am grateful they knew they could & still can continue to save me from myself. If the State government doesn't do it, there's no way any of us could display any modicum of self control.
You see it all the time. Someone in Texas buying a cold six pack of Miller Lite and drinking all 6 RIGHT THERE IN THE PARKING LOT!
Hell, every time I'm in Texas, I go to Kroger, get a 6 pack. I'm insatiable, I can't even wait to get to the car. I'm popping my third one open by the time I'm starting the car.
While your at it, lets have our government save all of us from ourselves in everyway. From now on, you have to eat what the government tells you to, drink what the government tells you to, sleep when the government tells you to. No more sky diving, bungee jumping, hang gliding, or even riding roller coasters, as these are all dangerous. While we are at it, let's take your keys from you, since you obviously can't be trusted to drive yourself to work. So tell me, exactly where we draw the line? When do we get to live our own lives, instead of the government leading it for us? If this is the system you trully prefer, then I suggest you find a nice communist country to live in.
quote:
Originally posted by grahambino
All beer drinkers are like this, too. Every last one, don't lie. You know you are. We cannot control ourselves. You have to have that beer fix...right now. RIGHT NOW.
Its 5pm somewhere, right?!
Kinda funny, I just finished my left over case of corona from new years eve last weekend. Granted, I keep having trouble finding limes in the store (what is up with that anyways), but still. I am a beer drinker, but yet I can have just one, and I can go weeks without one. So if you have this much of a problem with self control, then I think it's time you go to AA, and let the rest of us practice our own self control
...I think it was sarcasm...
I would hope so, but even if it was, there are people out there that think that way. It just infuriates me when they keep passing all these idiotic laws on the claim that it's for MY safety. Like the seatbelt law. Don't even get me started on that one.
I think we already went over the seat belt thing...
You're refusal to wear a seatbelt can cost ME money. An accident at 10 mph causes minimal damage with a seatbelt, but can cause severe head injuries without it. Costing me personally big bucks and society as a whole.
If there was a waiver of additional damages on failure to wear a seatbelt, I wouldn't care. But as a persons refusal to take precautionary measures has negative impacts on me, I insist you wear one. When your rights infringe mine - something has to give. In the case of seat belts forcing people to spend 3 seconds to put on a belt is less than forcing someone to spend many years wages paying for someones hospital bills and total disability (same with motor cycle helmets).
I'm a strong advocate of both practices and a tacit accomplice is supporting the laws.
The alcohol arguments, on the other hand, do NOT infringe on other's rights and there is no evidence that the preventative and restrictive measures adopted have any impact on the implied negatives anyway.
quote:
Originally posted by custosnox
quote:
Originally posted by TURobY
quote:
Originally posted by custosnox
quote:
Originally posted by grahambino
well, I am happy that the law as it was written was written by people who apparently didn't drink.
I'm so happy they had to foresight back in 1959, to limit consumer choice. I am grateful they knew they could & still can continue to save me from myself. If the State government doesn't do it, there's no way any of us could display any modicum of self control.
You see it all the time. Someone in Texas buying a cold six pack of Miller Lite and drinking all 6 RIGHT THERE IN THE PARKING LOT!
Hell, every time I'm in Texas, I go to Kroger, get a 6 pack. I'm insatiable, I can't even wait to get to the car. I'm popping my third one open by the time I'm starting the car.
While your at it, lets have our government save all of us from ourselves in everyway. From now on, you have to eat what the government tells you to, drink what the government tells you to, sleep when the government tells you to. No more sky diving, bungee jumping, hang gliding, or even riding roller coasters, as these are all dangerous. While we are at it, let's take your keys from you, since you obviously can't be trusted to drive yourself to work. So tell me, exactly where we draw the line? When do we get to live our own lives, instead of the government leading it for us? If this is the system you trully prefer, then I suggest you find a nice communist country to live in.
quote:
Originally posted by grahambino
All beer drinkers are like this, too. Every last one, don't lie. You know you are. We cannot control ourselves. You have to have that beer fix...right now. RIGHT NOW.
Its 5pm somewhere, right?!
Kinda funny, I just finished my left over case of corona from new years eve last weekend. Granted, I keep having trouble finding limes in the store (what is up with that anyways), but still. I am a beer drinker, but yet I can have just one, and I can go weeks without one. So if you have this much of a problem with self control, then I think it's time you go to AA, and let the rest of us practice our own self control
...I think it was sarcasm...
I would hope so, but even if it was, there are people out there that think that way. It just infuriates me when they keep passing all these idiotic laws on the claim that it's for MY safety. Like the seatbelt law. Don't even get me started on that one.
sarcasm ++++